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An Analysis of President Lincoln's Legal Arguments Against Secession
Apollo3 ^ | April 9, 1994 | James Ostrowski

Posted on 03/31/2014 10:24:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet

INTRODUCTION

On May 27, 1861, the army of the United States of America (the "Union")--a nation formed by consecutive secessions, first from Great Britain in 1776, and then from itself in 17881--invaded the State of Virginia,2 which had recently seceded from the Union, in an effort to negate that secession by violent force.

The historical result of the effort begun that day is well known and indisputable: after four years of brutal warfare, which killed 620,000 Americans, the United States negated the secession of the Confederate States of America, and forcibly re-enrolled them into the Union. The Civil War ended slavery, left the South in economic ruins, and set the stage for twelve years of military rule there.

Beyond its immediate effects, the Civil War made drastic changes in politics and law that continue to shape our world 130 years later. Arthur Ekirch writes: "Along with the terrible destruction of life and property suffered in four long years of fighting went tremendous changes in American life and thought, especially a decline in [classical] liberalism on all questions save that of slavery. * * * Through a policy of arbitrary arrests made possible by Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus, persons were seized and confined on the suspicion of disloyalty or of sympathy with the southern cause. Thus, in the course of the Civil War, a total of thirteen thousand civilians was estimated to have been held as political prisoners, often without any sort of trial or after only cursory hearings before a military tribunal."3The Civil War caused and allowed a tremendous expansion of the size and power of the federal government. It gave us our first federal conscription law...

(Excerpt) Read more at apollo3.com ...


TOPICS: Conspiracy; Government; History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: civilwar; confederacy; constitution; secession
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To: WhiskeyX

She and her sons had earned the punishment of imprisonment, a military tribunal, and hanging for their roles in the massacres of combatants and non-combatants
_______________________________________

You have records of course to prove this American grandmother in her 60s, widow of a hero of the Battle of Bloody Pond, did all this ???

As for “sons” Sarah only had one son who survive to fight in the American Revolution..

the only other William was bed fast and murdered by the rebels..

her surviving son George was wounded in battle at Stone Arabia..


121 posted on 04/01/2014 10:56:08 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Smokin' Joe
Probably chip Pikes Peak and the 14ers on the door frame anyway....
122 posted on 04/01/2014 10:56:39 AM PDT by MileHi
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To: GraceG

Do you write DirecTV commercials?


123 posted on 04/01/2014 10:57:59 AM PDT by DoodleDawg
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To: MileHi

You could consider leaving parts of the East side of the Front Range behind...


124 posted on 04/01/2014 11:02:23 AM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
Your complaint seems more with the voters who enable this mindset than with the government they’ve elected. Want to change things? Win elections.

That's a nice sentiment, but there comes a point where platitudes don't provide any practical solutions.

125 posted on 04/01/2014 11:03:45 AM PDT by tacticalogic
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To: MileHi

So what you want is to check out of the hotel and take your room with you. Pretty sure there’s no hotel that lets you do that.


126 posted on 04/01/2014 11:05:17 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: WhiskeyX

She and her sons had earned the punishment of imprisonment, a military tribunal, and hanging for their roles in the massacres of combatants and non-combatants
_______________________________________

BTW the only reason Sarah and her children and very young grandchildren were imprisoned was because Sarah refused to sign a declaration of allegiance to the rebels in 1775-7..

Sarah and her family were non-combatants..

just how dangerous was the TEN YEAR OLD Hannah “Annatje” De Forest born 1767 in Albany, NY..of American parents, American grandparents, American great grandparent, American great great grandparents, American great great great grandparents...

Good thing she was imprisoned...

she might have scared the rebels to death with her innocent glance from those green eyes of hers..


127 posted on 04/01/2014 11:06:17 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: tacticalogic

If you think that the processes laid out in the Consitituion of electoral representation, judicial review and amendment are no more than “platitudes,” then your practical solution is revolution.

Go for it, if that’s the way you feel. Just don’t be surprised when it doesn’t work out the way you hoped. Revolutions seldom do.


128 posted on 04/01/2014 11:10:27 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: tacticalogic
IMHO, a large part of the reason we’re at the point we are now is a perception within the beltway that there will never be any serious repercussions from anything they do.

I see just the opposite. I believe that most of the folks in Congress are so fearful of "serious repercussions" (defined by them as being voted out of office) that they more or less do nothing. Most of them try hard to do nothing and that's because they fear loss of office.

129 posted on 04/01/2014 11:11:02 AM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
This discussion was about secession, not individuals expatriating though, right?
130 posted on 04/01/2014 11:11:26 AM PDT by MileHi
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To: Smokin' Joe

If you draw a line from Lakewood to Boulder, I could live with leaving everything east of there if it reduced the baggage fee.


131 posted on 04/01/2014 11:14:41 AM PDT by MileHi
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To: staytrue

Alaska could be an interesting case. If Putin decides to reclaim it, all Obama would do would be to complain to the UN, where Russia has a veto. So it would be up to the people of Alaska to defeat the invaders. At that point, would they choose independence?


132 posted on 04/01/2014 11:21:23 AM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: MileHi

What is seccession other than a mass expatriation combined with territorial demands?


133 posted on 04/01/2014 11:24:21 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
It is a sovereign telling the Fed that they no longer enjoy the consent of the governed and their services are no longer needed.
134 posted on 04/01/2014 11:29:26 AM PDT by MileHi
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To: MileHi

And how is that different from announcing you’re now a different country and everything you want is part of that different country now?

Are states the only sovereigns with this power? What sort of process is required for them to exercise it? Can a governor simply declare it? A state legislature? Does it need to be voted on by the people? Are you just making this up as you go along or is it codified somewhere?


135 posted on 04/01/2014 11:40:27 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep

I suppose making it up as I go along, sort of like the Union did.


136 posted on 04/01/2014 11:54:52 AM PDT by MileHi
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To: MileHi

Just because you declare yourself to be a different country doesn’t make it so.


137 posted on 04/01/2014 11:58:40 AM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("More weight!"--Giles Corey)
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To: Verginius Rufus

Alaska..If Putin decides to reclaim it,
_________________________________

Obama would apologize profusely and offer to throw in Hawaii and Canada too..

What, Canada is a separate independent country ???

but where else are you going to get those 57 states from ??

aren’t the 7 extra British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, and the Maritimes ???

No ???

Does Obama know that ???


138 posted on 04/01/2014 11:58:57 AM PDT by Tennessee Nana
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To: Tennessee Nana

Americans are sadly ill-informed on how the Loyalists were treated during what you quite appropriately call our first civil war.

The same Founders who later wrote the Constitution, with provision for suspension of civil rights when necessary, treated those known or suspected of Loyalism MUCH worse than rebels in our 2nd civil war were treated.

Many Loyalists were imprisoned without trial, had their property confiscated without compensation, etc.


139 posted on 04/01/2014 11:59:12 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Tau Food
I see just the opposite. I believe that most of the folks in Congress are so fearful of "serious repercussions" (defined by them as being voted out of office) that they more or less do nothing. Most of them try hard to do nothing and that's because they fear loss of office.

Too much control and authority has been given over to the agencies and bureaucrats. They don't fear the electorate, because they aren't elected.

140 posted on 04/01/2014 12:37:08 PM PDT by tacticalogic
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