Posted on 03/31/2014 10:24:31 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet
INTRODUCTION
On May 27, 1861, the army of the United States of America (the "Union")--a nation formed by consecutive secessions, first from Great Britain in 1776, and then from itself in 17881--invaded the State of Virginia,2 which had recently seceded from the Union, in an effort to negate that secession by violent force.
The historical result of the effort begun that day is well known and indisputable: after four years of brutal warfare, which killed 620,000 Americans, the United States negated the secession of the Confederate States of America, and forcibly re-enrolled them into the Union. The Civil War ended slavery, left the South in economic ruins, and set the stage for twelve years of military rule there.
Beyond its immediate effects, the Civil War made drastic changes in politics and law that continue to shape our world 130 years later. Arthur Ekirch writes: "Along with the terrible destruction of life and property suffered in four long years of fighting went tremendous changes in American life and thought, especially a decline in [classical] liberalism on all questions save that of slavery. * * * Through a policy of arbitrary arrests made possible by Lincoln's suspension of habeas corpus, persons were seized and confined on the suspicion of disloyalty or of sympathy with the southern cause. Thus, in the course of the Civil War, a total of thirteen thousand civilians was estimated to have been held as political prisoners, often without any sort of trial or after only cursory hearings before a military tribunal."3The Civil War caused and allowed a tremendous expansion of the size and power of the federal government. It gave us our first federal conscription law...
(Excerpt) Read more at apollo3.com ...
So the US is Hotel Kalifornia?
Good. Historically, what is thought to be impossible frequently turns out to be a successful strategy.
“That is true if you don’t count the union keeping forts in confederate states territory as an act of war.”
The States unlawfully attempting to secede were States in perpetual Union with the United States. This resulted in the obligation: “The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.”
Constitution of the United States
Article. I.
Section. 8.
The Congress shall have Power
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;—And
To make all Laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into Execution the foregoing Powers, and all other Powers vested by this Constitution in the Government of the United States, or in any Department or Officer thereof.
Article. IV.
Section. 3.
New States may be admitted by the Congress into this Union; but no new State shall be formed or erected within the Jurisdiction of any other State; nor any State be formed by the Junction of two or more States, or Parts of States, without the Consent of the Legislatures of the States concerned as well as of the Congress.
The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States; and nothing in this Constitution shall be so construed as to Prejudice any Claims of the United States, or of any particular State.
Section. 4.
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion; and on Application of the Legislature, or of the Executive (when the Legislature cannot be convened), against domestic Violence.
She and her sons had earned the punishment of imprisonment, a military tribunal, and hanging for their roles in the massacres of combatants and non-combatants. Whether or not certain Patriots also earned such punishments is a separate matter. this woman was no innocent, being a key participant in the slaughters.
If you are advocating unilateral secession "at pleasure", followed by provoking, starting and formally declaring war on the United States: it'll never happen again.
Never say never. But I’d wager the outcome would be similar ;’)
On that score I'll conceded. The time when any state could choose to secede for no good reason is long gone.
How about if it is affixed to, sited upon, or situated within the ground, it stays. Roads, bridges, tunnels, airports, military base and other government buildings and airstrips, aqueducts, etc.
I don’t think there was anything unlawful about it. Where is that perpetual union you keep bringing up mentioned in the US Constitution? I can’t find it in the constitution I am reading, maybe my copy is defective. States do not “belong” to the US. The federal government is currently failing miserably on the “shall protect each of them against Invasion” thing, don’t you think?
I’m sure you’re very popular in some circles.
I’m just waiting for someone to actually run for office on a secessionist platform, just to see how far they’d get. I’d say I’d like to see a referendum, but almost no southern state allows them.
Just out of curiosity, how do you feel about entities other than a state unilaterally declaring themselves no longer part of the United States? Can a county declare themselves a different country? A city block? An individual?
There are planes leaving every hour.
Then is it any wonder that their actions resulted in war?
IMHO, a large part of the reason we’re at the point we are now is a perception within the beltway that there will never be any serious repercussions from anything they do.
Otherwise, why have a Secretary of State at state and federal levels?
These United States of America (written The United States of America after the War Between the States) were several and sovereign States (nations) after the Revolution. My ancestors took an oath to the Sovereign State of Maryland after the Revolution.
Those Sovereign States united for the purpose of mutual defense, among other purposes, first as a confederation, later under the Constitution, which specified limited Federal Powers, reserving all other power to the several States and the People.
Each State had its own army (militia), and until the general acceptance of a Federal Coinage, produced its own money (although valuable trade goods such as tobacco and beaver pelts were used as well).
Not really. That die was probably cast long before the first shot was fired.
I think it goes something like this....
When your state is tired of the central authority you attempt to leave the country....
When there is no set instructions or process on how to do so you wing it...
When you wing it, you piss off the central authority....
When you piss off the Central Authority they declare war on you...
When they declare war on you, it is a civil war....
Don’t start a Civil War when you attempt to have a your state leave the union....
Get a process down first.....
Wow! Really? Can you help me stuff my state into the cargo hold?
Your complaint seems more with the voters who enable this mindset than with the government they’ve elected. Want to change things? Win elections.
The founders had a process. They used it. Do you seriously think states full of parasites will permit states with productive revenue sources to leave?
While I understand the sentiment, it'll never fly, Orville...
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