Posted on 01/11/2013 11:03:06 AM PST by ReformationFan
We were having lunch together, and I was praying like mad. My friend had been in a committed same-sex relationship for about 15 years. He was interested in Jesus; attracted to his teaching and message. But he wanted to know how becoming a Christian would affect his gay lifestyle.
I had explained, as carefully and graciously as I could, that Jesus upheld and expanded the wider biblical stance on sexuality, that the only context for sexual activity is heterosexual marriage. Following Jesus would mean seeking to live under his word, in this area as in any other.
He had been quiet for a moment, and then looked me in the eye and asked the billion-dollar question: 'What could possibly be worth giving up my partner for?'
I held his gaze for a moment while my brain raced for the answer. There was eternity, of course. There was heaven and hell. But I was conscious that these realities would seem other-worldly and intangible to him. In any case, surely following Jesus is worth it even for this life. He was asking about life here-and-now, so I prayed for God to lead me to a here-and-now Bible verse. I wanted my friend to know that following Jesus really is worth it---worth it in the life to come, but also worth it in this life now, no less so for those who have homosexual feelings. Yes, there would be a host of hardships and difficulties: unfulfilled longings, the distress of unwanted temptation, and the struggles of long-term singleness.
But I wanted him to know that following Jesus is more than worth it, even with all it entails for gay people. And I also wanted to tell him that I had come to know this not just from studying the Bible and listening to others, but from my own experience.
More Grace, Not Less
Homosexuality is an issue I have grappled with my entire Christian life. It took a long time to admit to myself, longer to admit to others, and even longer to see something of God's good purposes through it all. There have been all sorts of ups and downs. But this battle is not devoid of blessings, as Paul discovered with his own unyielding thorn in the flesh. Struggling with sexuality has been an opportunity to experience more of God's grace, rather than less.
Only in recent months have I felt compelled to be more open on this issue. For many years I had no intention of being public about it. I am conscious that raising it here may lead to any number of responses---some welcome, some perhaps less so. But over the last couple of years I have felt increasingly concerned that, when it comes to our gay friends and family members, many of us Bible-believing Christians are losing confidence in the gospel. We are not always convinced it really is good news for gay people. We are not always sure we can really expect them to live by what the Bible says.
As my mind raced that lunchtime God gave me a verse to share with my friend. It demonstrates precisely why following Jesus is worth it, in this lifetime, and even when we have to give up things we could never imagine living without:
Peter said to Jesus, "We have left everything to follow you!"
"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no-one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel will fail to receive a hundred times as much as in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields---and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life." (Mark 10:28-30)
Following Jesus involves leaving things behind and giving things up. For gay people, it involves leaving behind a gay lifestyle.
God's Clear Word
The Bible is consistent in prohibiting homosexual practice. Jesus himself condemns "sexual immorality" (Mark 7:21, for example). Though Jesus does not directly mention homosexual activity, he does include it. The Greek word we translate as "sexual immorality" (porneia, from which we get the word pornography) is a catch-all term for any sexual activity outside heterosexual marriage.
Paul is more specific, directly referring to homosexual practice in three passages. In Romans 1:24-27 both homosexual and also lesbian activity are given as examples of the "unnatural" behavior that results from turning away from God. In 1 Cor. 6:9-10 "homosexual offenders" are listed among those whose behavior will result in their exclusion from God's kingdom. The word Paul uses literally translates as "men who lie with men" and comes again in 1 Timothy 1:10 (where the NIV 1984 unhelpfully translates it "perverts").
It is simply not possible to argue for gay relationships from the Bible. Attempts by some church leaders to do so inevitably involve twisting some texts and ignoring others. God's Word is, in fact, clear. The Bible consistently prohibits any sexual activity outside of marriage.
As someone who experiences homosexual feelings this is not always an easy word to hear. It has sometimes been very painful to come to terms with what the Bible says. There have been times of acute temptation and longing---times when I have been "in love." And yet Scripture shows that these longings distort what God has created me for.
Extraordinary Returns
However much we have to leave behind we are never left out of pocket. Whatever we give up Jesus replaces, in godly kind and greater measure. No one who leaves will fail to receive, and the returns are extraordinary---a hundredfold. What we give up for Jesus does not compare to what he gives back. If the costs are great, the rewards are even greater, even in this life. For me these include a wonderful depth of friendship God has given me with many brothers and sisters; the opportunities of singleness; the privilege of a wide-ranging ministry; and the community of a wonderful church family. But greater than any of these things is the opportunity that any complex and difficult situation presents us with: to learn the all-sufficiency of Christ---learning that fullness of life and joy is in him and his service, and nowhere else.
There is a huge amount to say on this issue, but the main point is this: the moment you think following Jesus will be a poor deal for someone, you call Jesus a liar. Discipleship is not always easy. Leaving anything cherished behind is profoundly hard. But Jesus is always worth it.
Oh please spare us the moral lecture. No one here at FR is out to get you. But much like the current gun issue the FR credo is live and let live but don’t force your difference with us onto us (ie don’t own a gun but don’t make me give up mine, don’t force me to condone one’s homosexuality).
Tea Partiers are assaulted in the media all the time while all gay is all good at the same time. No one has as much favorable press as homosexuals nowadays much less your ridiculous gas chamber example.
As a good friend and pastor whose brother is living in this destructive lifestyle says, “sexual sin is sexual sin. It can be fornication or homosexual activity, it’s still sexual sin.” First time I’d considered it that way, but he’s right. It’s easy to make unnatural relations somehow “worse sin” than natural but non-married relations. It’s also wrong.
The last three words only cause consternation to gays.
There have been a couple of “churches” that tried establishing themselves on a “gay friendly” basis in Indianapolis in the past few years. One of them started an advertising campaign based on “would Jesus discriminate?” They were clearly trying to push an agenda that Jesus would not discriminate against skin color, so of course he would not “discriminate” against sexual orientation, too. To me, it was clearly a case of trying to get you to accept an invalid premise, that homosexuality is not sin, but rather a “lifestyle choice.”
So in addition to the economic benefits of being able to categorize your gay partner as a legally married spouse, there is also a religious component. If you are “married,” you are not an adulterer, and therefore not a sinner. But as has been pointed out by other posters, it is clear from the body of Scripture that there is no “marriage” between persons of the same sex, and sexual relations between such persons is sexual sin.
I respectfully disagree. The conscience may be seared so entirely that it is possible to have cherished sins. Recall the rich young ruler. When he realized that he was being asked to sacrifice his cherished wealth and power he turned his back on Christ. Before the Holy Spirit convicted me I had several cherished sin habits. One of them had the potential to become quite profitable. They still occasionally tempt, but they are no longer cherished. In fact, I feel embarassed for having ever done so. In the hands of the Spirit this embarassment has been a wonderful goad to drive me to better things.
Please justify this statement. It seems arrogant of you to utterly dismiss the answer of "extraordinary returns" (backed by some scripture) to the question presented (which is "what good news is the gospel to a homosexual?").
“Am I my brother’s keeper?”
Said before and not by you.
Please justify this statement. It seems arrogant of you to utterly dismiss the answer of "extraordinary returns" (backed by some scripture) to the question presented (which is "what good news is the gospel to a homosexual?").
Specifically, Please re-read post #9 and attempt
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
to comprehend ALL the words therein.
if Yah'shua is YHvH and He is the WORD of YHvH
Then ALL of the WORD of YHvH is to be read.
And all sin comes from something broken inside. The sin is the symptom. We’re all broken inside, all conceived with an orientation to desire what sin seems to offer.
Most homosexuals believe they are so different that nobody could understand their struggle. But the truth is that we are all much more alike than we are different. We’re all hungry.
I think what Jesus offers gays in this life is the same thing he offers overeaters, over-shoppers, those chasing after pleasure, popularity, or purpose, the confused, abused, and trampled, etc. He offers us a chance to be free from ourselves - to know that He will take care of all our needs - physical, spiritual, emotional - so we are free to give ourselves freely to others without worrying about what comes back to us in return. We can love Him with all our heart, mind, soul, and strength, because He gives us everything we need in all those areas, so those “hard drives” are free to be used on Him and His purposes.
It’s a huge gift.
The Good News is that if they “go and sin no more” they will be forgiven.
That is categorically different than the accusation you laid out: that the answer given concerning profit is invalid.
Simply put, you do not need to read all of scripture to know that murder is sin — not even the ten commandments — in Proverbs it says feet quick to shed innocent blood is an abomination to God.
Likewise, you do not need the whole of scripture to say that God is concerned with the hearts of men. (Is 58, 3rd Jn, James, Jesus’s statement that God seeks people who will worship him in spirit, and more.)
I should think that you do not understand scripture, if you cannot see that in God’s quest for our hearts He makes it profitable (not always in the temporal-world) to seek Himself — and that is Sam’s answer as to why the Gospel is good news for even homosexuals.
Have you read this article?
http://www.hancockbaptist.org/05ArticlesText.php?t=JesusWouldDiscriminate.txt
Biology sentences unrepentant queers to genetic extinction.
Have a wonderful journey on the road of life.shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiachShabbat Shalom !
“Go and sin no more”.
We may never know if Jesus ever said this to a homo. But he did say it to adulterers and a woman who’d been married and divorced 5 times and was currently living in sin.
I guess you didn't get the memo that Free Republic stands for God and the traditional family - I believe Jim Robinson has made that abundantly clear.
Your cheap caricature of pro-family conservatives wanting to send gays "to the gas chamber" parrots the extremist rhetoric of the gay and secularist agenda and is an affront to many on this board.
Yeah, for sure there are legions of "Christ-centered" gays who are "just like us" (except for engaging in homosexual anal sex with - statistics reveal - legions of partners). There is little evidence that this imaginary constituency exists anywhere except in your mind.
As for your hollow claim to "worship Jesus," our Lord himself addressed the hypocrites of His day: "Why do you call me Lord and do not do as I say?"
In Matthew 19, in addressing the Pharisees of His day (applicable also to Pharisees on FR), Jesus affirmed the divine plan for marriage: "And He answered and said to them, 'Have you not read that He who made them at the beginning made them male and female, and said, ‘For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh?"
As for the insinuation that Jesus has Himself "gotten over" His repressive morality, good luck with that: "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away." As for the contention that the moral law is no longer applicable to us in the "enlightened" modern age: "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."
I suspect you are aware of all this, but sadly have chosen instead to side with those who oppose the teachings of Jesus regarding marriage.
As for your back-handed dismissal of pro-family conservatives who, according to you, need to "get over it," I also suspect that few will heed your demand, but will stand fast in affirming teachings of their Lord.
The question rather is whether you will "get over" your double-minded insistence on calling yourself "conservative" while being a mouthpiece for radical, anti-Faith secularism: "Choose this day whom you will serve."
I believe you should have led this man to Christ for salvation. Get him to the cross, burial and resurrection of our Lord. Then if he has truly turned to Jesus then there will eventually be a change in him.
We were never commissioned to change mankind, but to teach and live the life representing Jesus Christ. The Holy Spirit will do the work in him. That is the power of God.
Well said, my FRiend.
I have seen that article, and it references the situation I was talking about. Greenfield is the county seat of Hancock County, which is the contiguous county east of Indianapolis (Marion County).
Not a problem. When they push the homo agenda on FR, they get the zot!!
As "graciously" as you could, when you dared add to the requirements Jesus gave?
Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ ALL the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
- Matthew 22:34-40
Oh, but of course, what Matthew left out of Jesus' words about damning homosexuality, YOUR Bible genius understands should have been included.
In the same way that when Luke quoted Jesus saying sell everything you have and give thee money to the poor, YOUR Bible genius understands He didn't mean YOU.
You know the commandments: 'Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honor your father and mother.'" And he said, "All these I have observed from my youth." And when Jesus heard it, he said to him, "One thing you still lack. Sell all that you have and distribute to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me."
- Luke 18:20-22
Gay marriage is one thing (which Christians screw up anyway by allowing the State to be the legitimizer of Holy Matrimony instead of the Church). But - teaching homosexuals they are banned from Jesus' love and redemption solely because of their homosexuality is a whole 'nother thing. You RUN where angels fear to tread - literally "damning the fags" while "keeping your money."
Well you might get a lot of chuckles from the good old boys, but Jesus isn't smiling.
And one more thing - do you actually think you can screw with Jesus' teaching without payback?
When you damn people in Jesus' name who Jesus did NOT damn, they turn against you. And while you laugh - they vote. Look at the White House while you're laughing. Look at Obamacare while you're laughing. Kiss your guns goodbye while you're laughing. Did it EVER occur to you that the reason the Left might have so much power in this country is BECAUSE the hypocrisy of Christians have driven them AWAY from the teachings of Jesus that WOULD have reined in their madness and hatred?
What, you think Jesus is so IRRELEVENT that this can't be true?
:: spit ::
But I agree with you on one thing - there WILL be a Judgement Day, and we WILL face Jesus.
And He's going to want to know WHY YOU drove His children AWAY from Him.
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye."
- Matthew 7:3-5
But if anyone causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.
-Matthew 18:6
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