Posted on 02/19/2009 9:08:08 AM PST by Notoriously Conservative
Is college a scam? When it comes to careers like engineering, law, medicine, etc., of course an education is paramount. But answer me this: would an intense series of exams to test the knowledge of applicants for certification as say, a lawyer, not be just as effective as requiring 6+ years of college credit and passing the bar? They both would effectively measure knowledge of the field, but the aforementioned series of exams would not require the credit hours, and better yet the money to acquire those hours. Why is college credit required? Why can't self study, and proof of the necessary knowledge suffice?
I spent four years attaining my degree in a field that has nothing to do with my current occupation. Was it necessary? Well, yes, in order to get my job. But should it be? Perhaps not, it is not as if I am using any of the skills or knowledge from my degree, in a field that is totally unrelated. I could certainly do without the tens of thousands of dollars in debt my education blessed me with.
I'm not advocating the abolishment of the current higher educational system. I am simply posing the question for further thought; simply as an excersize in questioning the status quo.
So, back to the question, is college a scam? Kathy Kristof of Forbes seems to suggest it is. In this intriguing article, Kristof argues that with student loans with terms worse than what you can get from the mob, and with the overinflated importance of a college degree, higher education can actually mean a financial disaster.
Mindy Babbitt entered Davenport University in her mid-20s to study accounting..
(Excerpt) Read more at notoriouslyconservative.com ...
Education is mostly just another big business. The institutions don’t care in the least if decent educations are had by their customers.
The two biggest scams in America today are the Education Establishmen and the Legal Mafia.
Teachers are robbing out students/parents/tax payers of money and common sense, while lawyers either act as parasites on the capitalistic system or run for public offices and pass laws to restrict us or give excuses for more lawsuits.
Paying tens of thousands of dollars for it isn't wise if you aren't up to the task intellectually.
My niece will be going off to college in the fall -- she plans to be a history major. I told my brother (he's a moonbat) that he shouldn't agree to pay for that: it's a mistake for her and for him. He just shrugged and said, "It's what she wants."
Yeah. Whatever dude.
Not in engineering. It’s hard to get an engineering degree. At my college, lots of people dropped out of engineering because it was too hard, even National Merit Scholars.
Getting the degree means that you are dedicated and hardworking. You can follow through with commitments.
I know that most if not all of my kids will not go to college. I have taught (and demonstrated to) them that if you can read you can learn ANYTHING.
My son is in high school, and I have told him that we will not pay for a college education that will not result in a job.
If he wants a liberal arts degree in something like history, then he can pay for it himself.
My son is good at math and science. He has the intelligence to go into engineering or get a science degree. He’s just not sure he wants to do that.
I agree to a point. Fly to Asia and see what buildings, bridges, dams, and roads look like when designed by amateurs. For me, I will fly on planes designed by PE’s, use medical equipment designed by PE’s, rely on municipal water/sewage systems designed by PE’s.
A degree in Political Science? It’s like calling a stripper an artist.
You are absolutely right. And for those who really aren’t up to it’s it’s a waste of time. We have to stop being snobs and thinking that every kid has to be a professional of some kind; a lot of people, maybe most people, aren’t cut out for it.
Among my immediate circle of friends there are several families in which the parents are successful professionals and the kids just don’t have the brains to follow in their parents’ footsteps. Nice enough kids, hardworking and sweet, but either temperamentally or intellectually not up to being doctors, lawyers, or Indian chiefs. One of these families spent $125,000 putting their kid through university only to see her wind up a river-rafting guide in Colorado. Another family is upset because their expensively educated daughter is teaching riding lessons for $8 an hour. Another family is dismayed because their son makes $23000 as a swimming pool manager after getting a costly private education, which he now can’t easily pay for.
These kids are not underemployed, they’re doing their best. There is no shame in their work. The silly part is spending into six figures and incurring a lot of debt for kids who don’t have the brains to do much more.
On the other hand, there are lots of people who really should have their horizons expanded, and college should not be limited to just the best and brightest among us. Young people should have an opportunity to expand their intellectual horizons instead of going straight to a low-paying or blue-collar job, if they choose, and if they can swing it. But there are many state schools for which you don’t have to pay an arm and a leg; nothing requires a kid to go to George Washington University or some other $40K per year place.
Of all the human qualities, the one I admire the most is competence. A tailor who is really able to cut and fit a coat seems to me an admirable man, and by the same token a university professor who knows little or nothing of the thing he presumes to teach seems to me to be a fraud and a rascal.
...school teachers, taking them by and large, are probably the most ignorant and stupid class of men in the whole group of mental workers.
- H.L. Mencken
The scourge of any company; parasites who are only employed to interpret and enforce excessive government regulations.
However, colleges have facilities to learn. I have a minor in chemistry and there is no way I could learn the college level chemistry without the wonderful chemistry labs at my college.
My degree is in Computer Science back in ‘84. Back then, only colleges and companies had computers that you could learn how to program on.
Plus, you are exposed to so many people that are very intelligent. It did expand my mind to be around those people.
I find it almost laughable that Mindy decided to enter Davenport to study accounting but only "figured" her increased earnings would allow her to pay off her student loan. I would have expected her to realize that $35,000 at 9% interest would require her to pay $4,446.48 year just to service the debt and to compute she would need to put aside $85.51 a week to pay the interest. If she put aside $171.02 a week to pay the interest and the principal down, she (and I will assume she owed $49,405.36 which is the principal plus four years interest) would have been able to pay down the loan completely in 394 weeks which is less than 7 years and 7 months.
In short, Mindy apparently did not know much about dollars and cents before she went to college and learned very little about dollars and cents in college! Gee, isn't accounting about dollars and cents?
It is people like Mindy who have contributed to the credit crisis. She does not know how to manage her money and probably does not believe she should be the person who pays off her just debts.
My final comments are to read Charles Murrays book Real Education. You will learn that college is not for people of moderately above average intellectual abilities because those people will get a dumbed down version of education or will pay for what amounts to little more than a trade school education. Mindy probably paid for courses in accounting but apparently was either unable to comprehend the content of those courses or received courses in bookkeeping which lacked any information related to how to manage financial resources.
College is not for those who are too dense to manipulate complex concepts.
The professional associations also push the college myth. They don’t want the competition. It gets so silly that they split hairs over the type of degree. Take The IEEE. These guys push to keep people with EET degrees, for example, out of engineering jobs, and keep them exclusively for EEs. It’s pure BS, as in 30 years I’ve seen no indictation that one is better than the other. If anything the EETs have more practical training that makes them better new hires, since you start out at the bottom anyhow no matter what degree you have. And the two programs are almost the same, just a bit more calculus and less lab for EEs. I lost count of the EE grads that couldn’t turn on an oscilloscope. Too many were trained as if they were going to start out as senior developers. LOL!
Think of it this way. Anyone who could self-train himself well enough to be a lawyer or engineer is going to be a lot smarter and better motivated than someone who slept through classes. The people already in the industries wouldn’t want to face such stiff competition.
People like Thomas Jefferson, Abraham Lincoln, and Andrew Jackson would not be able to practice law due to current rules. Architects like Frank Lloyd Wright and Daniel Burnham would be stuck in draftmen’s jobs. It is difficult to see how that would make the world a better place.
I’ll agree with what you are saying. I have 3 kids: 2 are gifted and 1 is special needs.
I am highly encouraging him to get an engineering degree because he is flat out gifted in math and he is just extremely smart. I have a degree in Computer Science, and my son blows me away with how naturally smart he is. He should probably get some sort of masters or PhD.
My special needs daughter makes As/Bs in private school. However, she works hard for those grades. They don’t come naturally, and she does have some accomodations (mainly extra time on tests). If she wants to go to college, then I think she should live at home and go to a state college where we live. It won’t cost a ton, and it will give her a good solid education. If she doesn’t want to go to college, then I’m okay with that also. I think she would be good at working in the medical field because she has personally had to endure lots of medical testing. I think she should go to some vocational school for that. She also likes to build things.
“On the other hand, there is much to be said for being in a situation in which one can be exposed to history, art, music, science, mathematics, literature, and foreign languages and cultures. “
True. On the other hand I can get the same thing by going to the public library for free. Well, actually I learn more from the library than I ever did in college because I read a lot more than the few books some commie professor put on a lousy reading list.
YES. It’s a scam. You must spend tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars to teach YOURSELF, in spite of your leftist idiot professors, in order to get a certificate which allows you to possibly get a job making lots of money. Maybe.
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