Posted on 11/11/2008 11:15:21 AM PST by LeoOshkosh
I'm going to buy an
assault semi-automatic rifle with considerable magazine capacity.
Rather than ask which gun to buy (like many others have), I'd like to let the ammunition influence my gun purchase.
Okay experts......these are the parameters I'd like you to discuss for ammo calibers ranging from .223 to 7.62x39 to larger.
What is the best caliber ammo based on?
1) availability 2) cost 3) versatility (defense, hunting, etc.) 4) popular caliber with numerous gun brands 5) etc.
The Nosler .223 55gr bullet comes in with a ballistic coefficient of .267.
Assuming a muzzle velocity of 2800fps and 3200fps respectively. At 500 yds not only has the 30.06 dropped less, it has more velocity than the .223...and 4-5 times the energy.
I still don't place the 30-06...in the "flat" shooting rifle catagory.
Maybe that's my bias....and maybe you love the 30-06...I dunno...Ha!
I shoot a .243 for varmits...and a .270 for whitetail...
I think I also said....it's not what you shoot...it's how you shoot that really matters.
FWIW-
MOLON LABE
I hear ya...and I've got one. Waaay back in the day...2000 election fallout, I posted that I'd have some extra SKS's on hand because a lot of people just weren't paying attention. I've still got 'em...I'm just not feeling to sympathetic for people that haven't armed themselves. And in this climate, I'd prefer to beat on a CommBloc milsurp or a WASR.
That surprises me. I seem to recall there was a really good road heading north out of Kuwait...Highway of Death, I thiink it was called. :)
the 7.62X39 first and foremost, and then the 5.56
Really? Try the internet. That round is becoming rapidly RARE!! And it costs considerably more IF you can find it...
The Ruger Mini-30, Armalite M15-7.62x39 and T/C Encore 7.62x39 barrel are .308 caliber. Don't try shoving .311 caliber commie ammo aka 7.62x39 Russian down those barrels. My Romanian SKS can eat that Wolf stuff just fine. The Armalite will be digesting hand loaded 7.62x39 with .308 caliber bullets and boxer primed brass. It's not all bad news. The stock of .308 cal bullets can be shared among the 30-30, .308, 30-06 and now the 7.62x39 rifles. Sometimes a common caliber is a "win".
DITTO!!!!!!
What is out there:
5.56x45Nato (.223, but they really aren't the same)
5.45x39Russian
7.62x39Russian
There are several other calibers that had semi-auto military style rifles, but are not as common and the ammo is normally expensive (7.5 MAS, 7.5 Swiss, 7x57 Mauser, etc.).
5.45x39R wins the cheap ammo award as there is still a lot of corrosive surplus around at very reasonable prices. It also has the advantage of light carry weight like 5.56x45N and is arguably more accurate than 7.62x39R. Reloading componates are not as common.
5.56x45Nato is the most common ammo in this country and always a safe bet. Cost here is better than the heavier full powered battle rifle rounds. Reloading in this round is also common with military surplus componates available. Out to 400 yards this is as accurate as you would need; depending on ammo & weapon it can/will do sub-minute-of-angle.
7.62x39R comes in second in the cost competition and last in accuracy due to poor QC in the ammo. The bullet weight, powder charge and primers are not real consistant in eastern block manufacturing. Arguably, the rifles in 7.62x39R are some of the most reliable ever built. I also think this is the one “lessor” round that makes a good hunting rifle on deer size game.
7.62x51Nato is the second most common rifle round in the USA and it too is no lose choice. In my opinion, the most flexible of the group. Makes a great game round. It is the lightest rifle round I would consider a 500/600 yard plus round (I don't see that well any more...). There is a huge selection of rifles available with mag sizes to twenty & thirty rounds common.
7.62x54R has almost identical ballistics to the 7.62x51/.308 but gets an edge over .308 in cost. Accuracy depends on the shooter/ammo/rifle so all the heavy battle rifle calibers are really almost a toss up on accuracy. This caliber does have limited choices in rifles available and some are expensive. Also most rifle in this caliber are limited to ten round mags.
30-06 a long time standard and proven round. It will handle a heavier bullet weight than .308 so it makes a better big game rifle. Accuracy is still not the caliber, but shooter ability/ammo quality/rifle quality; even so it is inherently accurate in available rifles. This caliber, again, does have limited choices in rifles available and some are expensive. Also most rifles in this caliber are limited to eight round clips (Garand).
8mm Mauser, the big boy. Because of the large, heavy bullet, this round is most likely to stay stable out to as much as 1,000 yards. That doesn't mean you're going to hit anything at that distance (LOL). Fairly cheap ammo is around still. Great large game rifle. Rifles are limited in selection and mags size (is mostly) limited to ten rounds.
NOW, for the questions!
What are you going to do with it? Home & personal protection or (maybe also) Hunt? Hunting points to the heavier calibers assuming you also have a .22LR...
Where? Urban or rural? Urban leans to the lighter calibers because of more limited line of sight, likely hood of more/multiple targets and safety of not over-penetration & shooting through walls and hitting an unintended target.
If hunting, deer or larger game? Bigger the game, bigger the round...
If rural, woodland or more open terrain? Woodlands could go small or large, but open terrain screams for the longer range of heavier calibers.
I solved this dilemma by buying multiple rifles in every caliber... ;^) Drop by www.gunsnet.net and talk with us gun nuts!
Crazy Joe is a little slow on the uptake. He should have been buying ammo years ago.
Crazy Joe is a little slow on the uptake. He should have been buying ammo years ago.
At 400 yards the 5.56mm has as much energy left as a .45 ACP at the muzzle.
it will make a neat little hole, but not do much damage, unless you hit the target in just the right spot.
With FMJ ammo, yes. But civilians aren't bound by the Geneva Conventions. Load your AR with 62 grain soft points and you'll be amazed at the damage it will cause at that range.
L
It is not about hunting. It's about giving the government a monopoly on violent coercian. The reason the 2nd Amendment exists, is to guarentee to the citizens the ultimate check upon government's tyranny.
Allow me to give you a good rule of thumb. Every time the government does something that makes you mad, buy another 1,000 rounds of ammo. If the government respects its boundries, you can always sell it as a profit. If they don't, you can always send it to them, one round at a time.
are the cartridges interchangable?
The military 7.62x51NATO was developed from the .308 Winchester, but there are several differences. The .308 has a slightly longer case. The .308 is rated for a higher pressure rating. Commercial .308W has softer primers while the Nato ammo uses a hard primer for free floating firing pins. The .308 case is made of softer metal and has a thinner base...
What does this mean?
Basically, a 7.62x51N can be fired in any rifle chambered for .308Win, but you have to be careful the other way.
Any military surplus rifle rated for 7.62x51N should be used with only that unless you can confirm it is safe to do otherwise. An example would be the CETME and G3 rifles sold by Century have had trouble with commercial .308Win with case splitting, punctured primers, pulling extractors through the case base and even in rare instances a KA-BOOM. Except when the steel case Russian like wolf is used...
I haven’t been hunting in 25+ years... but if I do as you say I would own Lakecity... ;) My enclosed car hauler was almost overloaded the last time I relocated the stuff though...
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