Posted on 11/11/2008 11:15:21 AM PST by LeoOshkosh
I'm going to buy an
assault semi-automatic rifle with considerable magazine capacity.
Rather than ask which gun to buy (like many others have), I'd like to let the ammunition influence my gun purchase.
Okay experts......these are the parameters I'd like you to discuss for ammo calibers ranging from .223 to 7.62x39 to larger.
What is the best caliber ammo based on?
1) availability 2) cost 3) versatility (defense, hunting, etc.) 4) popular caliber with numerous gun brands 5) etc.
Given those, 7.62X39
.223 ties 1 and 4, but 7.62 still beats it in price and versatility. .223 wins in accuracy only over the 7.62 imo.
Now if an ammo import ban was created then the .223 would win in all categories. You can buy domestic 7.62 but it's more expensive than .223. I can buy 30-06 ammo cheaper then I can buy domestic 7.62.
Oh, I agree there. It's just, if I have to fall, here in the autumn of my life, defending the Constitution on the streets where I actually live, rather than some distant shore, I'd prefer to do it with an American made, American designed rifle. I'm just funny that way...
the infowarrior
That's flat enuff and about 15% more velocity and energy than a .308.
For me, I prefer shooting from where they have a hard time reaching me. So I’d pick 308 in my M1A. I can use my Bedell Spitfire 40 on the stuff close up.
Thank you.
Any thoughts on good all around and dependable round?
Thanks, I have bookmarked this because with the price of ammo I can sorta justify this.
That being said....at 500 yds..that 180gr. bullet drops something like 73 inches. IOW, it's running out of gas.....
A .223 on the other hand drops 45 or so inches...at 500 yds. at also 500 ft./sec. faster....Smaller bullet, natch!
Of course....different ammo will certainly improve these results.
IMO....it all depends on HOW you shoot...not WHAT you shoot.
I just generally don't lump 30-06 in with what I think are "flat shooting" calibers.
Speaking of shooting....friend just called..and I'm going bow-hunting.
Cheers!!
Rifle Trajectory Table By Chuck Hawks For the record, this table was calculated for an air temperature of 60 degrees F and an altitude of 1000 feet. The following data was taken from various sources including reloading manuals and the online Ballistics Calculator provided by BigGameInfo. To save space, the following abbreviations are used in the table below: Wb = Weight of bullet (in grains); MV = Muzzle Velocity (in feet per second); BC = Ballistic Coefficient; MRT = Mid-Range Trajectory; yards = yds.; inches = "; MPBR = Maximum Point Blank Range; BT = Ballistic Tip; FP = Flat Point, HP = Hollow Point; RN = Round Nose; Sp = Spitzer; SP = Spire Point; SSp = Semi-Spitzer. |
| Cartridge (Wb@MV) | Bullet BC | 100 yds. | 200 yds. | MRT@yds. | MPBR (yds.) |
| .17 HMR (17 SP at 2550) | .123 | +1.5" | -5.5" | 1.5"@100 | 165 |
| .204 Ruger (33 BT at 4225) | .185 | +1.1" | +1.0" | 1.5"@150 | 275 |
| .22 LR (40 HP at 1255) | .100 | -3.0" | -40.9" | 1.5"@45 | 90 |
| .22 WMR (40 HP at 1910) | .100 | +0.5" | -19.0" | 1.5"@65 | 123 |
| .222 Rem. (50 Sp at 3140) | .220 | +1.4" | -0.4" | 1.5"@118 | 222 |
| .223 Rem. (45 Sp at 3550) | .167 | +1.4" | +0.2" | 1.5"@130 | 235 |
| .223 Rem. (55 SP at 3240) | .235 | +1.4" | +/- 0" | 1.5"@120 | 230 |
| .22-250 Rem. (55 SP at 3600) | .235 | +1.3" | +0.6" | 1.5"@135 | 254 |
| .220 Swift (55 SP at 3800) | .235 | +1.2" | +0.9" | 1.5"@140 | 264 |
| .223 WSSM (55 SP at 3800) | .235 | +1.2" | +0.9" | 1.5"@140 | 264 |
| .243 Win. (80 Sp at 3350) | .255 | +1.3" | +0.2" | 1.5"@125 | 237 |
| .243 Win. (100 Sp at 2960) | .351 | +2.6" | +1.9" | 3"@140 | 283 |
| 6mm Rem. (100 Sp at 3100) | .351 | +2.5" | +2.2" | 3"@150 | 296 |
| .243 WSSM (100 Sp at 3100) | .351 | +2.5" | +2.2" | 3"@150 | 296 |
| 6x62mm Freres (100 Sp at 3300) | .351 | +2.4" | +2.5" | 3"@150 | 312 |
| .240 Wby. Mag. (100 Sp at 3400) | .351 | +2.4" | +2.6" | 3"@160 | 322 |
| .257 Roberts (120 Sp at 2780) | .391 | +2.7" | +1.6" | 3"@125 | 271 |
| .25 WSSM (120 Sp at 2990) | .391 | +2.5" | +2.0" | 3"@145 | 291 |
| .25-06 Rem. (120 Sp at 2990) | .391 | +2.5" | +2.0" | 3"@145 | 291 |
| .257 Wby. Mag. (120 Sp at 3305) | .391 | +2.4" | +2.5" | 3"@155 | 317 |
| 6.5x55 (140 Sp at 2645) | .435 | +2.7" | +1.2" | 3"@125 | 260 |
| .260 Rem. (140 Sp at 2750) | .435 | +2.7" | +1.6" | 3"@125 | 271 |
| 6.5mm Rem. Mag. (120 Sp at 3210) | .433 | +2.4" | +2.5" | 3"@150 | 312 |
| 6.5x68 S (140 Sp at 2990) | .435 | +2.6" | +2.1" | 3"@150 | 294 |
| .264 Win. Mag. (140 Sp at 3100) | .435 | +2.5" | +2.3" | 3"@150 | 303 |
| 6.8mm Rem. SPC (115 Sp at 2800) | .325 | +2.6" | +1.3" | 3"@130 | 267 |
| .270 Win. (130 Sp at 3140) | .416 | +2.5" | +2.4" | 3"@150 | 305 |
| .270 Win. (150 Sp at 2900) | .481 | +2.6" | +2.0" | 3"@138 | 287 |
| .270 WSM (150 Sp at 3150) | .481 | +2.5" | +2.4" | 3"@150 | 311 |
| .270 Wby. Mag. (150 Sp at 3245) | .481 | +2.4" | +2.6" | 3"@160 | 320 |
| 7x57 (140 BT at 2660) | .485 | +2.7" | +1.3" | 3"@125 | 264 |
| 7mm-08 Rem. (140 BT at 2860) | .485 | +2.6" | +1.9" | 3"@140 | 285 |
| .280 Rem. (140 BT at 3000) | .485 | +2.6" | +2.2" | 3"@150 | 298 |
| 7mm SAUM (150 Sp at 3110) | .456 | +2.5" | +2.3" | 3"@150 | 305 |
| 7mm WSM (150 Sp at 3200) | .456 | +2.4" | +2.5" | 3"@150 | 314 |
| 7mm Rem. Mag. (150 Sp at 3110) | .456 | +2.5" | +2.3" | 3"@150 | 305 |
| 7mm Wby. Mag. (154 SP at 3260) | .433 | +2.4" | +2.5" | 3"@150 | 317 |
| 7mm Ultra Mag (160 Sp at 3200) | .475 | +2.4" | +2.5" | 3"@150 | 314 |
| .30 Carbine (110 RN at 1990) | .144 | +2.8" | -8.2" | 3"@85 | 171 |
| .30-30 Win. (150 FP at 2390) | .268 | +2.9" | -0.6" | 3"@110 | 225 |
| .30-30 Win. (170 FP at 2200) | .304 | +2.9" | -1.8" | 3"@105 | 211 |
| .300 Sav. (150 BT at 2630) | .435 | +2.8" | +1.2" | 3"@125 | 259 |
| .308 Win. (150 BT at 2800) | .435 | +2.7" | +1.7" | 3"@135 | 275 |
| .308 Win. (180 Sp at 2610) | .483 | +2.8" | +1.2" | 3"@125 | 259 |
| .30-06 (150 BT at 2910) | .435 | +2.6" | +2.0" | 3"@145 | 287 |
| .30-06 (180 Sp at 2700) | .483 | +2.7" | +1.5" | 3"@125 | 269 |
| .300 SAUM (165 Sp at 3075) | .410 | +2.5" | +2.3" | 3"@145 | 300 |
| .300 WSM (180 Sp at 2970) | .483 | +2.6" | +2.2" | 3"@150 | 294 |
| .300 Win. Mag. (180 Sp at 3070) | .483 | +2.5" | +2.3" | 3"@150 | 303 |
| .300 Wby. Mag. (180 Sp at 3250) | .483 | +2.4" | +2.6" | 3"@155 | 320 |
| .300 Ultra Mag (180 Sp at 3250) | .483 | +2.4" | +2.6" | 3"@155 | 320 |
| 7.62x39 (123 Sp at 2365) | .292 | +2.9" | -0.5" | 3"@110 | 225 |
| .303 Br. (150 Sp at 2723) | .411 | +2.8" | +1.5" | 3"@130 | 267 |
| .32 Spec. (170 FP at 2250) | .297 | +3.0" | -1.3" | 3"@105 | 215 |
| 8x57JS (200 Sp at 2650) | .426 | +2.8" | +1.2" | 3"@125 | 260 |
| .325 WSM (180 Sp at 2975) | .394 | +2.6" | +2.0" | 3"@140 | 289 |
| 8x68 S (150 Sp at 3300) | .369 | +2.4" | +2.5" | 3"@150 | 316 |
| .338-57 O'Connor (200 FP at 2400) | .200 | +2.9" | -0.3" | 3"@110 | 214 |
| .338 Win. Mag. (200 BT at 2960) | .414 | +2.6" | +2.1" | 3"@150 | 289 |
| .340 Wby. Mag. (250 Sp at 2941) | .473 | +2.6" | +2.1" | 3"@150 | 291 |
| .338 Ultra Mag (250 Sp at 2860) | .473 | +2.7" | +1.9" | 3"@140 | 285 |
| .357 Mag. (158 FP at 1830) | .158 | +2.7" | -10.5" | 3"@85 | 163 |
| .35 Rem. (200 RN at 2080) | .180 | +2.9" | -5.1" | 3"@93 | 186 |
| .35 Whelen (200 Sp at 2700) | .295 | +2.8" | +1.0" | 3"@125 | 254 |
| .350 Rem. Mag. (200 Sp at 2775) | .295 | +2.7" | +1.3" | 3"@125 | 260 |
| 9.3x62 (270 SSp at 2550) | .361 | +2.8" | +0.7" | 3"@125 | 247 |
| .375 H&H Mag. (270 SP at 2690) | .380 | +2.7" | +1.3" | 3"@130 | 260 |
| .375 Ultra Mag (300 SP at 2800) | .398 | +2.7" | +1.7" | 3"@125 | 273 |
| .378 Wby. Mag. (300 Sp at 2935) | .398 | +2.6" | +2.0" | 3"@140 | 285 |
| .416 Rigby (400 RN at 2400) | .316 | +2.9" | -0.1" | 3"@115 | 231 |
| .416 Rem. Mag. (400 RN at 2400) | .316 | +2.9" | -0.1" | 3"@115 | 231 |
| .44 Rem. Mag. (240 FP at 1760) | .165 | +2.6" | -11.6" | 3"@75 | 159 |
| .444 Marlin (240 FP at 2350) | .165 | +3.0" | -2.6" | 3"@100 | 203 |
| .450 Marlin (350 RN at 2100) | .189 | +3.0" | -4.5" | 3"@100 | 189 |
| .45-70 (300 HP at 1800) | .197 | +2.7" | -9.2" | 3"@85 | 166 |
| .45-70 (405 FP at 1330) | .214 | +1.3" | -22.9" | 3"@65 | 131 |
| .458 Win. Mag. (500 RN at 2100) | .295 | +3.0" | -2.9" | 3"@100 | 200 |
| .460 Wby. Mag. (500 RN at 2600) | .295 | +2.8" | +0.6" | 3"@116 | 246 |
Copyright 2002, 2007 by Chuck Hawks. All rights reserved.
THIS.
5.56 (aka .223*) is the quintessential round for the US military, and thus the militia at large (that means you).
7.62x51 (aka .308*) is the next-most-important US military round, preferred for - ahem - long range applications. It is also the most universally applicable round, suitable for general purpose use a la Jeff Cooper's "scout rifle" concept.
Follow our military's lead, both for long-term availability and proven usefulness.
* - The .223 and .308 versions are very slightly different from their gutsier military 5.56 and 7.62 incarnations. Get the military version wherever possible, especially when picking a barrel (the "civilian" version may not withstand the "military" ammo).
Kalishnikov AK stamped versions can really suck and jam. I have experience with an Egyptian Maadi AKM and it really bites an inopportune times. For peace of mind in last line, home/self defense, find a forged AK model. The price will be about 5-10 times higher than a stamped version. That is if you can even find a forged AK, they are rare.
For resale, availability and reliability, get an HK91, Springfield (HK)SAR8 or Mil-Spec M1A (Match if avail). Mags are readily available (& cheap) for the HK. M1A mags still aint as cheap or available as the HK’s/SAR8’s. Look seriously at parts prices/availability, too.
Baretta 9mm, Govt. Model 45(would be my pref) or a Ithaca Model37 for ‘inside the house’ defense. Discharging any LR round inside can be extremely hazardous for the family and/or the next door neighbors. Remember your liability.
Certain Makarov autos make an excellent close-quarter, b/u side-arm for smaller hands; but pay attention to quality. The design is based on (horked-from) the PPK. German made ones are the best. It is reasonably priced if dropped or stolen. Plus, it is reliable and holds a tight group.
Doll&Jindal12
peace
the Deets
Above URL has very good information on ballistic tests.
URL is rifle but handgun info is on another page.
I think it would be fitting to take on the commies with a commie weapon. :>)
Yeah, the .223 is small but fast. I’m actually a shotgun guy myself, TBH, I shoot rifles only about once a month or so, mostly I like clays.
btw,
Get a port buffer on the HK/SAR8, otherwise you’ll be left with useless brass.
Winchester .308 (NATO 7.62) and .223 are popular, and would perhaps be easy to find in times of unrest.
Like I said, 308 Winchester/7.62 NATO.
I’m 100% sure he never made it back across the Kuwaiti border.
Once you have settled on which caliber you want, check this list of Internet Dealers.
For your remington 870 you might want to look at the company called Ammo to go. They have some Federal LE full power 12 Ga Buckshot at a cost of about $0.63 per Round.
A small amount of research reveals that these are extra special shells. One site that claims to have tested them brags about a pattern of about 8" Diameter at 40 yards. Perhaps this is the result of the plastic wad pushing the shot down the bore and then slowing down while the shot continues at full speed on it's way.
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