Carolyn Jessop, who escaped from an FLDS marriage that included 6 other wives and 54 children.
Posted on 04/22/2008 12:46:48 PM PDT by Mr. Silverback
Carolyn Jessop, who escaped from an FLDS marriage that included 6 other wives and 54 children.
Rulon Jeffs, 90, poses with two of his brides approximately two years before his death. Reported estimates of the number of his wives range from 19 to 75. His son, Warren, succeeded him as Prophet of the FLDS.
I have to say, I'm more than a little disturbed how many conservatives I'm coming across who believe that the FLDS folks from the YFZ ranch in Texas have been on the receiving end of another Waco, or something resembling the Elian Gonzalez abduction. Though of course I consider the adults at the ranch to be innocent until proven guilty, I believe that the facts available show the authorities made the right call on this one as far as seeking a warrant and taking temporary custody goes.
Let's put the FLDS aside for a moment, and consider MS-13. Through numerous court findings and testimony of victims and former members, MS-13 can be regarded without doubt as a criminal enterprise. One of their specialties is human trafficking. Now, imagine a young woman has called police from a cell phone, describing herself as one of the slaves MS-13 brings into the country. Imagine that when she describes her location the police recognize it as a known meeting place and suspected "processing center" for the gang. Imagine also that these same police know that a major MS-13 leader has recently been convicted of multiple counts related to setting up the human trafficking network in the first place.
If you're a cop, do you go get a warrant and raid the place? I sure would!
Some readers may be offended that I have compared a religious commune to a gang so vicious they pretty much qualify as a terrorist organization. My point is not that the FLDS is as dangerous as MS-13. That wouldn't be true if everything they're accused of is true several times over. No, my point is that they are both known criminal enterprises. One of them just happens to also be a religion.
Sure, the FLDS is a faith community, but an essential part of their faith practice--a part as important to them as confession is to a Catholic and keeping kosher is to an Orthodox Jew--is the "spiritual marriage" of multiple women to one or more men, usually starting at an age well below the age of consent. Given what has been revealed in court at Warren Jeffs' trial and the testimony of numerous people who've left the FLDS (see the "True Stories" section at systematic abuse of boys as well.
Unless the FLDS goes through a doctrinal change far more sweeping than the change Mormons went through when they gave up their doctrines of polygamy and racial supremacy, it will remain a criminal organization, dedicated to committing sex crimes because they believe these sex crimes are God's preferred way to build families. Does that mean they should be broken up? No, a religion is a religion, and their Constitutional protections prevent that. But as long as every outward sign points to them engaging in horrific illegal acts as part of their religious practice, there will be a lot of opportunity for probable cause.
It could be that the state is way out of line, and we'll find that out at trial with a lot of acquittals and fat lawsuits against Texas to follow. But I think there was enough probable cause here for two or three cases.
I have four more issues with what Scott wrote, the first two of which are points he made that I've seen expressed by other conservatives:
1. I'm concerned about members of the Christian, conservative or homeschooling communities treating polygamy as no big deal. It's true that some heroes of the faith were polygamists, but it's also true that I can't recall one of them who didn't suffer. David, Solomon, Jacob...each had misery, and Solomon was even drawn away from worshipping God because of influence from his multiple wives. Moreover, there is an opppressive aspect to the FLDS's activities that I'm certain wasn't present in any home run by someone who was called "a man after God's own heart." FLDS women are basically chattel. That's why I don't see polygamy as practiced by these folks as being superior or even equal to being raised in a homosexual environment. "Heather Has Two Mommies" and "Heather has Eight Mommies and a Daddy Who Can't Remember Her Name" both seem like bad news to me.
2. The idea being advanced that only certain girls (the pregnant teens) or only the female children should have been taken into custody is way, way off. Either every child should have been removed or not a single one should have been removed. If this ranch was what the state claims it was, every adult there was was involved in or knew about a conspiracy to commit serial child sexual abuse. In other words, either the state is lying or there's not a single adult there who should have custody of a child.
Would you let a babysitter care for your son if he told you he had been convicted of child sexual abuse, but was only interested in girls? Neither should a parent who allowed abuse of young girls be considered a fit guardian for young boys.
3. The argument that God saw fit to open these women's wombs so we should trust His judgment is not Bbiblically sustainable, and I know from personal experience that it's flawed. Consider that God also opened the wombs of the women who sacrificed their infant children to Molech, so the mere existence of a child doesn't mean the child will be welcomed and cared for properly. My great-grandmother's womb was opened so she could have my peternal grandfather, and he and at least one of his brothers were so badly abused that they spent time in mental institutions. Both of these men performed heroically in WWII and one was even offered a battlefield commission. They deserved better than to have parents who abused them.
4. Scott, you called Madonna "beautiful and a whore." I have to strongly disagree with that description. For once I am in agreement with the editors of Maxim, who referred to Madonna as "Willem Dafoe with hot flashes." :-)
Of course we have to watch our government, but we need to be careful about when we start yelling "SHEEP!" We might just be enabling a pack of wolves.
Sorry I haven't posted one of these in awhile, but lately I've been posting a lot of links and videos, and it seemed like empty bandwidth use if i posted them at FR.
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Wasn’t Elian Gonzales here illegally?
You are spot on. This cult is ran by perverted old men who get off on sexual perversion and power. They are pure evil who have twisted the minds of too many people. A society who tolerates this behavior is doomed.
That was the matter at dispute in court, but even if he was illegal and in the wrong custody there was nothing to justify a raid by guys with machine guns.
I note for the record that I oppose the legal standard used in the U.S. where you have to make it to dry land before you are considered to be here legally. As far as I'm concerned, if you make the effort and get rescued, you should be welcomed.
You’re correct, but let’s not be too hard on those who disagree. This case has many similarities to some really disturbing incidents of overzealousness and worse by law enforcement, so it reminds them of those tragedies. This ranch reminds me of the Branch Davidiaan compound in a lot of ways.
Cubans are considered refugees. We can send them back if intercepted, but if they make it to dry land they are O.K.
Could you elaborate? Is it your contention that the average mom at YFZ didn't know that her daughters would be expected to enter into arranged marriages?
They have brainwashed the children for generations to get them to go along with the program and they have rewarded those who have done so.
“It is good to be the Prophet”
This time no buildings were destroyed and burned, and no people were killed. The government invaded a cult in Texas using brute force, there is the similarity. It was done correctly, and it was done for a good lawful and moral reason. The defenders of this cult have it all screwed up. The people invloved in the FLDS are brainwashed into believing this sick way of life is good. There is no good there.
You posted, “I think it is clear that many people at this compound do not know what outside society’s version of normal is.”
This is my point, I don’t think many freepers know what outside society’s definition of normal is.
“Would the government dare to raid a Latino or Black housing project and remove the children wholesale?”
I think that is an interesting concept. There is much abuse that goes on in disfunctional homes where values of right and wrong are not taught. Housing projects for the most part have become nothing more then breeding grounds for antisocial behavior. The abuse that occurs in such situations must be horrific. It is interesting how the government choses to ignore that and makes the claim that people have the right to live alternative life-styles. But do parents have the right to live sexually deviant lives or morally depraved lives ruled by drug addiction when they are raising children? It only screws up the children, requiring government intervention when these children show up in the public school system. Yet no one can address the parents disfunctional life-style of government dependency with all of it’s ugly reprecussions of a life lived without any consequences, because after all, big daddy, the government is paying all the bills.
I see, and you make a good point. That would, however, mean they were just as unqualified to be a guardian as someone who knew those standards and violated them anyway.
Good point, I hate to say it, but even the women seem a little perverted, despite their ridiculous attempt at going overboard to appear overly modest. What a weird group, the women must dress like they are living in the 1800's while the men behave like sexual hounds that would make Hugh Hefner blush. I don't get it, the only thing that I can think is that they are one kinky group of people. They must be stopped, children should not pay for their perverted lifestyle, which by the way would qualify as being an alternative lifestyle according to the radical left.
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