Posted on 04/20/2008 8:49:48 AM PDT by Soliton
“Intelligent Design” is of no scientific value in determining the origins of life in the universe. A designer would have to be supernatural (i.e. not subject to the laws of physics) or natural and subject to those laws. If the designer is natural in origin, then it would have to have been designed by another designer –again supernatural or natural. Ultimately come to an original designer that either evolved from a lower state of matter, or was created by a supernatural being. You will note that this is back to where we started. Science does not deal with supernatural phenomena by definition. Scientifically, the only answer is evolution. ID, however, is really about the cosmology of the Book of Genesis anyway, but if that is admitted, it can’t be taught in school. And there’s the rub.
The term “Intelligent Design” was adopted by the Discovery Institute, the originator of the ID movement, and a non-profit company that was incorporated specifically to get the story of Genesis taught in public schools (as specifically stated in the incorporation documents). To that end a Creationist textbook was published called Of Pandas and People.
In 1987, The Supreme Court of the United States ruled that teaching creationism in public schools violated the separation of church and state in Edwards vs. Aquilard.
In a similar later case, Kitzmiller vs. The Dover Area School District involving the school’s acquisition of Of Pandas and People, it was proven in court that the publishers and the people who financed the purchase lied in depositions when they stated that Intelligent Design wasn’t just another term for Creationism. They did this by showing that dozens of passages in the pre-1987 Edwards vs. Aquilard copies of the book used “Creation”, while later versions substituted “Intelligent Design” in its place.
The entire Intelligent Design movement is a dishonest, legalistic Trojan horse specifically intended to teach creationism in public school even though it is against the law.
Complete transcripts of Kitzmiller vs. Dover can be found here:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/dover/kitzmiller_v_dover.html
Words have meaning, as El Rushbo often says, and yes I can prove that evolution is not a religion based on definitions.
#1 My tax dollars are being used to push far right religious dogma down the throats of students, and even the so-called religious right knows it is nothing more than an attempt to wrap 5000 year old religious campfire stories into pseudoscience, so they try to hide Creationism under a new name “Intelligent Design.”
If you have to be dishonest about it from Day One, give it up.
#2. People who have trouble spelling four-letter words, (no, not the dirty ones) are its strongest supporters.
You understand that this has gone all the way to the Supreme Court? Lawyers, not scientists, are to blame. Trying to snaek creationism in the back door is dishonest. Change the law.
Because of the damage it does to real science
bookmark bump
Did you read my post at all? If you want to refute any part, please do. that would be scientific.
It scares me because I rather like our science driven high tech economy that enables us to have the most powerful military in the history of the world.
Simply saying that %deity% did it as ID does puts that all in danger.
That is unsupported and only a claim by evos. What if a Hindu brought forward the idea of I.D.? Or an agnostic?
I thought we bumped heads last night on the Catholic position but was mistaken. Evolution is a mechanism and what is the attempt by evos is to extend that back to the origins of life.
Science isn't advanced enough to exclude I.D. It is advanced to examine the potential evidence of it. The point we diverged on was science is only as good as the person paying for it. Science isn't necessarily honest. See the whole global warming agenda (which you wouldn't comment on last night) where data is fudged in the name of an agenda.
What is seen is the personal destruction of those seeking to examine evidence of whether there is proof of I.D. To even suggest it the person is tagged as a fundamentalist and banned. Your post is a great example of the fascist mindset.
As for quoting a court case, are you serious? Then I guess you feel great about Kelo v. New London, or Lawrence v. Texas. Or how about Roe v Wade?
No, bring all the I.D. folks in from all walks of life. Fund them. Let them do the research. Then review it honestly on its merits. Until the witch hunt ends no one should trust the high priests of academia. For they are not honorable.
And the government schools are the root cause of this whole controversy. If we all sent our kids to private schools of our choice, some of us would send our kids to secular schools, some to Christian schools and some to madrassahs or other nut factories. In any event, if we had a problem with the schools curriculum we would be free to send our kids to another school with a different curriculum.
If you ask me (I know you didn’t) it’s islam that’s being forced down the throats of students. God is being kicked into the void and mohammed is filling that void.
I agree that the scientific method needs to be upheld and that ID needs to be held to that standard. I think ID’s biggest problem is its inability to identify a creator or designer, probably ever. Another problem is that if they could some how qualify scientifically that design is a possibility without proof of a creator they would more than likely still have to deal with evolution.
“No - evolution is science”
Yesterday you stated that evoltion is a theory.
Now today it is science.
Both the Big Bang THEROY and The THEROY of Evoltion are just that .
THEROIES, nothing more. Just something to talk about.
BTW, name three things you believe in that are conseravtive values.
Now that is bunk. Our science went along just fine with-out evolution and with creation in the class room up until the 1930’s, which by that time we had become the most technologically advanced nation on earth.
No SPECIFIC religion or dogma should be taught in school.
After a teacher’s announcement, “Y’all be good;” it all goes downhill from there.
I don’t think you quite understand what scientific theory is. Scientific theory is everything, there is actually very little scientific fact out there.
But that's not how it's working out, is it? Just google islam in American schools some day when you have the time.
True, but creation was more widely taught in schools, and was taught until the 1960’s and our technology never suffered. I am not arguing for ID or creationism, just that stupid point that we would fall into the dark ages of technology advancement if we somehow made a blurb or two about ID, which I am not in favor of, at least not in science class.
What’s the “Theroy of Evoltion”? “THEROIES”? “Conseravtive”?
Evolution is science. It is also a theory.
Suggest, I do, that you look up what the word theory means in a scientific context.
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