Pardon Graner

PABAAH.com ^ | Jon Alvarez

[Jon Alvarez]

Pardon Graner

Now that the media has inundated the world with all the sordid images and details of the "Abu Ghraib Prison Abuse Scandal", and now that Spc. Charles Graner has been found guilty of these so-called "abuses", we should all feel better, right? After all, America has done all she can to prove to the Arab street just how sensitive and caring she is, right? Pardon my French, but this is a bunch of BS! I don't know what kind of goods we're being sold, but I ain't buying and neither should you. War is hell and bad things happen in war. Just ask Army Spc. Matt Maupin.

Matt Maupin, of Batavia, Ohio, is still missing in Iraq. The last time this American soldier was seen he was kneeling in front of a group terrorists on the same kind of sick and sadistic videotape we've seen broadcast on the Arab propaganda network Al-Jazeera. In uniform, supposedly under the protection of the Geneva Convention, in the hands of the very same monsters Spc. Charles Graner and his crew at Abu Ghraib prison have been condemned for being mean and insensitive to. So where is the international outcry over the whereabouts of Spc. Matt Maupin? Where is the condemnation by the United Nations of these non-uniformed terrorists who buried Army Sgt. Elmer Krause and four civilian contractors in a shallow grave after attacking their convoy?

What this author finds so outrageous and disturbing is that so many in the world, Americans included, appear to be more concerned with the rights of non-uniformed terrorists and public relations than actually defeating this evil enemy and bringing THEM to justice. While American casualties are more in line with the War with Mexico, the very fact that we appear to be fighting a "politically correct" war grants some validity to leftist claims that Iraq is another Vietnam. The fact that Army Spc. Graner is going to jail for the mistreatment and abuse of some terrorists, including a non-uniformed Syrian who by his own admission was in Iraq to kill Americans, confirms this. Vietnam should have taught us that we cannot win a "PC" war. Stringing up a few of these guys caught in the act to the nearest light pole is what should be done.

The Geneva Convention was designed to ensure civil treatment of POWs and civilians during a time of war. In other words, while war is a very bad thing, nations do go to war for various reasons. The civilized world felt it necessary to lay out some ground rules for all to follow. However, the Geneva Convention specifically prohibits the taking of hostages and furthermore, does not apply to those that fail to "conduct their operations within the laws and customs of war". In other words, these hostage-taking headcutters, including the non-uniformed Syrian, are not protected by the Geneva Convention. Sadly, this simple fact does not come into play as it is much more fashionable to portray the United States as the bad guy in this current conflict.

While our nation has allowed itself to be distracted by the tsunami disaster in Asia, we will be faced with a similar disaster in Iraq if we allow that country to fall into the hands of the terrorists and Saddam Hussein. Abandoning the people of Iraq, as the naive anti-American leftists here in America would have us do, would be tantamount to unleashing a tsunami on those in Iraq desirous of freedom. We cannot allow political correctness to dictate how we fight the War on Terror. We certainly didn't when we defeated Germany and Japan in World War II. It is up to patriots across this great country to maintain a vigilant state to ensure that this mistreatment of our own soldiers does not happen again. I invite all of you to contact President Bush, your elected officials, and the Army Court of Appeals, urging them to do the right thing and pardon Spc. Charles Graner. Maybe he was a bit overzealous in his treatment of the prisoners at Abu Ghraib, but at least they still have their heads.

[Jon Alvarez]

http://www.congress.org to find your elected officials

To contact the Army Court of Appeals:

ACCAInfo@jagc-smtp.army.mil

[dead]

Matt Maupin, of Batavia, Ohio, is still missing in Iraq. The last time this American soldier was seen he was kneeling in front of a group terrorists on the same kind of sick and sadistic videotape we've seen broadcast on the Arab propaganda network Al-Jazeera. In uniform, supposedly under the protection of the Geneva Convention…

Last time I checked, neither Al Qaeda nor the terrorist “insurgency” in Iraq, had signed the Geneva Convention, so prisoners in their control are in no way under its protection.

The reverse is also true.

[Poohbah]

Graner's actions violated US Army orders, were part of a pattern of sadistic treatment towards prisoners in his charge (he was fired from a civilian prison guard position and "voluntarily" left at least one other such post for similar antics), and were contrary to the good order and discipline of the Armed Forces of the United States.

This article uses as its line of departure several "facts" that are not congruent with reality. I would suggest that the author read the Taguba Report for a better understanding of the events at Abu Ghraib Prison.

(An aside: when did "ignorant bloviating" become "a point of view?")

I find it fascinating that "conservatives" are advocating the notion that the American military should excuse, tolerate, and promote indiscipline within the ranks.

[Phsstpok]

Oh bull. Graner is a sadist who violated his orders and the rules of common decency. He wasn't convicted for using legitimate "stress techniques" to get information out of terrorists. He was convicted of grotesquely abusing prisoners under his authority. This was probably his fantasy as a guard in his normal job as a US prison guard.

The only rationale for pardoning him is if you assume that higher ups did, in fact, order him to do the stupid things he did. I don't buy that. That is Michael Moore's argument.

He is not an interrogator dealing with terrorists with critical info we need to get. He is a low life jailer abusing those under his authority. He doesn't deserve any consideration.

[marron]

I disagree with you.

I agree that the Geneva Convention does not apply to terrorists. But one of the things I take great pride in is the basic decency of the American soldier. Graner has crossed a line, and it would dishonor us to tolerate it.

He doesn't deserve twenty years, that would be excessive, but he deserves to do time, and to be at the mercy of prison guards who, one would hope, will be more professional than was he. Its good to remember that he is a prison guard in his civilian job, so he can't claim ignorance, he is trained and experienced in this job. One wonders what kinds of nonsense he has done on the job back home. I doubt he will be missed.

[axes_of_weezles]

He will not stay at Leavenworth for 10 years. They have parole too.
He should have shut up and taken an Article 15; not given his parents, NYT and CBS the pictures to try and get off the hook. Garner deserves his sentence for stupidity, thinking he could weasel his way from justice.

This idiot was a prison guard in his civilian life and thought he has free rein during midshifts.

I agree Poobah

[drt1]

IMHO This article is a crock! I posted the words below on the thread following this one where this animal's parents insult the military and ignore the reality of their poor excuse for a human being son. I think it deserves repeating:

I would be more inclined to think that just maybe this animal was acting on orders from superiors and was not predisposed to abusing people who couldn't defend themselves if I hadn't read all of the testimony by his peers and wasn't aware of his civilian record, which, as I understand it, contains allegations of many of the same activities while he was a US Prison guard.

IMO This guy is lucky he got as little time as he did considering the nature of his crimes AND the incredible damage he inflicted on his fellow soldiers. I am sure there are more dead or injured because he did hat he did than there would be otherwise.

[Southack]

Graner's sentence was appropriate for a variety of reasons, not least among them because either he, his co-horts in crime, or his attorney illegally leaked the evidence of his crime (the photos) to Mary Mapes of CBS in an attempt to blackmail the Bush Administration into giving all of the perpetrators lighter sentences.

It was through CBS that the NY Times obtained those photos that lead to 41 straight days of front page Abu Ghraib scandal stories.

Such evidence for criminal trials is illegal to leak under both U.S. civilian and UCMJ statutes, as well as it being a violation of the Geneva convention to take and publish humiliating photographs of prisoners.

So don't try to re-write history into having some sort of "Saint Graner."

He did the crime. Now he'll do the time, and *nothing* that he's done to date merits leniency or sympathy on our part.

[Poohbah]

Allegations, hell...he was FIRED from one prison for doing stuff like this.

[MainFrame65]

I was going to reply to this, but I have little to add to your comments. The harm done to America by his actions is incalculable, and any putative benefit from "softening-up" the prisoners non-existent. His actions might have recruited some of the people setting off bombs and killing Iraquis and Americans today. Ten years might be light for the harm done.

[USMCVet]

Completely disagree: Graner and his cohorts violated the Uniform Code of Military Justice and disgraced his uniform, his flag, and his country. He and his fellow lamebrains may have even caused this war to be prolonged and more lives lost, because the pure disgraceful filthiness of his crimes has aided the enemy in recruiting more jihadists.

As a staff noncommissioned officer, he had the responsibility of leading, training, and disciplining those under his command. Instead, he led them into a swamp of perverse sadism before the whole world.

Instead of the honor and glory that the combatants in this war have earned, he stained them and all of us by un-American conduct.

He should have gotten more, not less time in jail.

[Navy Patriot]

Graner is a pain in the a$$ without producing tangible results. Ten years will give him time to think about how he assisted the socialist liberal DemocRat traitors and the the anti-American MSM. The pig headed egotist got what he deserved.

[txrangerette]

{I find it fascinating that "conservatives" are advocating the notion that the American military should excuse, tolerate, and promote indiscipline within the ranks.}

Worth repeating.

These scattershot protestations against the military's own rules being applied to Graner couldn't hit the broadside of a barn. They are all over the place, and they sound looney and desperate. If these ever were true Conservatives, they have become as unhinged as the Left in this country.

[Dilbert56]

I have trouble believing these perverts were carrying out orders. Why did they do it in the early morning hours and post lookouts?

For a few hours of sadistic fun these soldiers did incredible damage to the image of the United States. They gave our enemies (Al Qaida, the UN, Ted Kennedy) a propaganda victory. In a war where the center of gravity is US public opinion, this was a serious hit.

[oolatec]

Pardon Graner? Uh, I don't think so.

[r9etb]

No need for me to respond -- you said it much better than I could.

[drt1]

I know that he was fired. He just wasn't ever convicted in a trial for these felonies. That's why I used 'allegations' to describe this animal's past behavior.

[Tijeras_Slim]

Graner's a thug who figured thousands of miles and no ACLU allowed him to play little tin god.

[Poohbah]

I know that he was fired. He just wasn't ever convicted in a trial for these felonies. That's why I used 'allegations' to describe this animal's past behavior.

Getting fired from a unionized goobermint job is harder than getting convicted.

[drt1]

Never looked at it that way but I can't disagree. :-)