Posted on 12/04/2006 6:10:06 PM PST by goldstategop
RUSH: John in Shreveport, Louisiana. Hello.
CALLER: Mr. Rush, don't you think you're being a hypocrite when you're not -- when you don't want the Iraqis to decide the problems themselves, especially since Abraham Lincoln took two -- two generals named Lincoln [sic--Grant] and Sherman who were responsible for the deaths of 59,000 southern people? And since you hate Confederate heritage that much, don't you think that we should allow the people of Iraq to decide their own fate?
RUSH: (Laughing.) Gee. I hate Confederate heritage?
CALLER: No kidding.
RUSH: On the basis of what do you say that?
CALLER: Okay, allow me to quote you from 2001: "The American Civil War was the first conflict in human history to set a people free from the bondage of slavery." Your quote, sir.
RUSH: Yeah?
CALLER: And that's not --
RUSH: Well, the point is, we fought --
CALLER: -- power --
RUSH: Are we going to have this argument, Steve?
CALLER: Yes, sir, we are, if you've got the nerve to hold it!
RUSH: I'll have this argument with you any time you want. I've been hearing from you guys since I started this show. I know, it's about states' rights, it was about freedom; it was about independence. But it was about preserving the union -- and Abraham Lincoln knew that you couldn't preserve an America with the institutions defined by our Constitution if one man was allowed to own another.
CALLER: Well, you could not preserve the Constitution as long as you could override it by military power and invasion.
RUSH: Well, there was the preservation of the union that was the number one --
CALLER: How about the preservation of the Constitution, shouldn't that be predominant?
RUSH: Look, you still want to secede? What's your solution?
CALLER: We have no choice, we're under occupation now. The thing about it is you still have to lie about Abraham Lincoln to prove your, to make your point.
RUSH: I'm not lying about Abraham Lincoln. What do you mean, you're still under occupation?
CALLER: Put it this way. The South was not allowed to vote its own way; we're not going to allow Iraq to vote its own government, either.
RUSH: But we did.
CALLER: Do you think we're really abiding by that? What they voted for, we're trying to subvert it by military occupation. No difference than what they did here for 12 years in Louisiana. You don't think we don't see that? You don't think we don't see you as a hypocrite for what you say about, oh, yeah, preserve the union, but let's never mind, let's take away the vote from those who are the voting citizens --
RUSH: I cannot believe this!
CALLER: -- Constitution!
RUSH: I can't believe this. You are taking out your frustrations at having lost the Civil War on me and claiming I'm a hypocrite because of my stance on the Iraq war?
CALLER: Yes, sir.
RUSH: Which I don't even think you know what it is.
CALLER: I don't think you know -- I don't think you know who Abraham Lincoln was.
RUSH: I certainly know who Abraham Lincoln was. He's one of the greatest presidents in the history of the country.
CALLER: Who said that --
RUSH: And it wasn't because he defeated the south. It was because he preserved the union.
CALLER: He preserved the union by trampling the Constitution!
RUSH: He did not trample the Constitution. He suspended habeas corpus. He did do some things I wish Bush would do.
CALLER: Like kill 59,000 innocent civilians?
RUSH: Are you talking about Sherman's march through Atlanta?
CALLER: And -- and -- and Grant's shelling the city of Vicksburg. Hello?
RUSH: It won the war, didn't it? You ever heard of Gettysburg? It won the war and that was the objective. I'll tell you what I wish Bush would do that Lincoln did. Take all these anti-war agitators and send 'em to Canada. Send the National Guard in there. Send Harry Reid over to Baghdad if he's going to be so socially --
CALLER: Like that Ohio Congressman Vallandigham, huh?
RUSH: Absolutely, like that Ohio congressman, that Democrat that was snatched out of his house and sent down to Jefferson Davis, who also didn't want him.
CALLER: Well, at least I got you to acknowledge that.
RUSH: Acknowledge what?
CALLER: Well, the fact that Lincoln did have his secret police who went into people's houses, pulled them out in the middle of the night, and had them -- and had them --
RUSH: You know what? I hope before you die you learn to thank God for Abraham Lincoln.
CALLER: I hope before you die you learn what a racist and a bigot and a power-hungry maniac he was.
RUSH: I'm the racist and the bigot?
CALLER: I didn't say you were. I said he was!
RUSH: Oh. Abraham Lincoln? How in the world you can call a guy who ended slavery a racist and a bigot? I have heard everything now. Everything, in 22 years of hosting this program, I have heard everything.
The power to form alliances and Confederations with other states was prohibted by the Constitution.
What was not specifically dealt with as either delegated to the Federal gov't or prohibited to the states was then left to the either the states or the people.
There were things in the Constitution that limited actions by the states and those were actions reserved to it by the Federal gov't as a sovereign nation, such as treaties and alliances.
The states gave up the right to act as a sovereign nation when it entered the Union and nothing in the Constitution makes any provision for the state to reject the Federal gov't constitutional authority over it.
No, because there is no such thing as the 'Southern people' there is only the American people.
That is why Washington wanted to be known as an American and not as a Virginian.
>>I don't think that is as true anymore. Our leaders here have sold us down the river. You've just not picked up on that yet, but if you only check the indicators since ~1962 . . .
That is because the Union was made among the People and a person can choose to remain an American or not.
A State is a political entity that cannot be dissolved by the Federal gov't, nor dissolve itself.
In other words, a State can never cease to be a state, but an American does not have to remain an American.
The radicals wanted to say that when the South left the Union they committed 'state suicide' and were not longer states.
This view was rejected by Congress.
Thus, an American may freely choose to cease to be an American, but a state will never cease to be a state and as such must remain in Union with the other states.
Best to you - gotta go to work.
Thank you, same to you.
You were the da Vinci of the horse artillery.
Not the whole court, no. Then, as now, Supreme Court justices headed a federal circuit court district. But then, unlike now, the Justices actually sat a bench and heard cases. Chief Justice Taney issued his ruling while in his role as a circuit court judge. The entire court has never taken up the matter of who may suspend habeas corpus and who may not.
You know what would really, really work best of all? If you can show me where the entire Supreme Court ruled that only Congress can suspend habeas corpus. What you have shown is a bunch of individual opinions that a president may not suspend habeas corpus. And while I might agree witht them, my individual opinion is no more binding than their's is. The whole court has never taken up the matter so exactly who may suspend habeas corpus remains unresolved.
No, they rebelled.
So then how did Lincoln have quorum?
A quorum in what?
In his book "Lifeline of the Confederacy: Blockade Running During the Civil War", Stephen Wise gives figures on tariff collections for the year prior to the rebellion. Those figures show that about 94% of all tariffs were collected in Northern ports. In his December 1864 annual message to Congress Lincoln noted that well over $100 million dollars in tariff revenue had been collected in the fiscal year ending in July. That was about twice what was collected in 1860. If Lincoln was concerned about the tariff, and we have only anicdotal evidence to support that claim, his fears were obviously groundless.
Then it must be a great mystery to you why South Carolina cared if the Union spent their money to man a pointless fort. But you surely have some theory what the fort was for, and I'm betting that theory will be greatly entertaining. So please enlighten us.
The purpose was to defend the city of Charleston. How funny was that? The fort had been started and, up to the rebellion, the construction had been supported by the people of South Carolina. Forts were forts, they weren't tariff houses or post offices.
What did that have to do with his tyranny? Had Hitler never invaded anyone he still would have been a tyrant.
And your opinion, meaningless as it is, has been noted. Repeatedly.
And had the South won their rebellion then those Union officers would no doubt have been tried and hung by the confederacy while Wirtz would have gone off scott-free. Being the winner does have it's advantages, including hanging the other sides war criminals and leaving your own alone.
You are aware, I assume, that on a per capita basis more southerners were jailed without trial in the Jeff Davis confederacy than in Abraham Lincoln's Union? No criticism for Jeff?
The newspapers he demolished.
And those would be?
The Maryland legislature he disbanded.
The Maryland Legislature actually met throughout the war, just like all Union states. Those legislators arrested in September 1861 were trying to take the state out of the Union to join the armed rebellion being waged by the other states. Hardly surprising that they would be locked up.
"could you give me an example of me rebutting something you did not say."
sure, that secession was somehow justified under the 10th Amendment. Never said that. I said that after the civil war, the 10th amendment has been steadily eroded.
No allegations to it. They were very open in their intentions.
As I pointed out earlier, the people at the time did not call it "The Civil War". In the North, it was officially know as "The War of the Rebellion" and in the South they called it "The War Between the States" .
As to the public education you mentioned, I agree. My public education occurred over 40 years ago and I was taught that the war was over "States Rights" and differences over tariffs with slavery playing some part but they never quite stated what that part was. That was all from the Lost Cause school of history that emerged around the turn of the century that attempted to excuse the Confederates in order to bring the sections together. It was not until much later in life when I began my own studies and read from primary sources that I realized the war was only about one thing --- slavery.
And I agree that there is no doubt that the South was intent of building its own empire for control over its own destiny, but that destiny was all about defending and expanding the institution of chattel slavery.
Please post Douglass remarks... they are quite accurate. But don't just post the part where he says Lincoln was the president of white people and did what was best for whites. Also post the part where he says that Lincoln could only do as much as the people would allow him and when the people allowed him to end slavery, he did not hesitate to do so. And don't forget to post the part where Douglass called him the best friend blacks ever had.
The Senate, for example.
The Bill of Rights are about individual freedoms." The 10th Amendment is not about individual freedoms at all, it's exclusively and unambiguosly about limiting federal power.
The 10th Amendment was an amendment limiting federal power over the individual, as were all ten amendments.
The Federalists were first reluctant on having a Bill of Rights, believing that if a particular individual right restricting the the Federal gov't were listed, it could be construed that those not mentioned were not rights and open to Federal interference.
The 10th thus serves as a 'catch all' for those individual rights not specifically listed in the other nine.
The 10th Amendment erosion has nothing to do with the Federal gov't taking power away from the states, but the Federal gov't using the 'necessary and proper clause' to grow and take away rights from the individual.
The first ten amendments to the U.S. Constitution are called the Bill of Rights because they provide basic legal protection for individual rights. http://www.americanrevwar.homestead.com/files/BILLOFRI.HTM
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