Churches urged to back evolution

Churches urged to back evolution By Paul Rincon BBC News science reporter, St Louis

US scientists have called on mainstream religious communities to help them fight policies that undermine the teaching of evolution.

The American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS) hit out at the "intelligent design" movement at its annual meeting in Missouri.

As the name suggests, intelligent design is a concept invoking the hand of a designer in nature.

It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other Gilbert Omenn AAAS president

There have been several attempts across the US by anti-evolutionists to get intelligent design taught in school science lessons.

At the meeting in St Louis, the AAAS issued a statement strongly condemning the moves.

"Such veiled attempts to wedge religion - actually just one kind of religion - into science classrooms is a disservice to students, parents, teachers and tax payers," said AAAS president Gilbert Omenn.

"It's time to recognise that science and religion should never be pitted against each other.

"They can and do co-exist in the context of most people's lives. Just not in science classrooms, lest we confuse our children."

Eugenie Scott, director of the National Center for Science Education, which campaigns to keep evolution in public schools, said those in mainstream religious communities needed to "step up to the plate" in order to prevent the issue being viewed as a battle between science and religion.

"The intelligent design movement belittles evolution. It makes God a designer - an engineer," said George Coyne, director of the Vatican Observatory.

"Intelligent design concentrates on a designer who they do not really identify - but who's kidding whom?"

Last year, a federal judge ruled in favour of 11 parents in Dover, Pennsylvania, who argued that Darwinian evolution must be taught as fact.

Dover school administrators had pushed for intelligent design to be inserted into science teaching. But the judge ruled this violated the constitution, which sets out a clear separation between religion and state.

Fourteen US states are considering bills that scientists say would restrict the teaching of evolution.

These include a legislative bill in Missouri which seeks to ensure that only science which can be proven by experiment is taught in schools.

I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design Teacher Mark Gihring "The new strategy is to teach intelligent design without calling it intelligent design," biologist Kenneth Miller, of Brown University in Rhode Island, told the BBC News website.

Dr Miller, an expert witness in the Dover School case, added: "The advocates of intelligent design and creationism have tried to repackage their criticisms, saying they want to teach the evidence for evolution and the evidence against evolution."

However, Mark Gihring, a teacher from Missouri sympathetic to intelligent design, told the BBC: "I think if we look at where the empirical scientific evidence leads us, it leads us towards intelligent design.

"[Intelligent design] ultimately takes us back to why we're here and the value of life... if an individual doesn't have a reason for being, they might carry themselves in a way that is ultimately destructive for society."

The decentralised US education system ensures that intelligent design will remain an issue in the classroom regardless of the decision in the Dover case.

"I think as a legal strategy, intelligent design is dead. That does not mean intelligent design as a social movement is dead," said Ms Scott.

"This is an idea that has real legs and it's going to be around for a long time. It will, however, evolve."

Among the most high-profile champions of intelligent design is US President George W Bush, who has said schools should make students aware of the concept.

But Mr Omenn warned that teaching intelligent design will deprive students of a proper education, ultimately harming the US economy.

"At a time when fewer US students are heading into science, baby boomer scientists are retiring in growing numbers and international students are returning home to work, America can ill afford the time and tax-payer dollars debating the facts of evolution," he said. Story from BBC NEWS: http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/1/hi/sci/tech/4731360.stm

Is that a "yes" or a "no", as to whether the Nazis were doing the Lord's work, in your opinion?

The Bible plainly shows (and secular history backs up) the fact that the 'Jews' were CONSTANTLY being overrun by other countries and sebjected to bad things.

The Bible plainly shows (and secular history is silent) that the 'Jews' had turned away from GOD (again) and they suffered the consequences of their actions.

The Bible plainly shows (and secular history backs up) the fact that the 'Jews' were finally driven from their land around 70 AD (No wimpy CE for me!) . Was it because the majority of them did NOT accept Christ as the Messiah? The BOOK seems to indicate that.

So, do I think the Nazi's were doing the Lord's work? Well, without the Holocost, the 1948 RETURN of the JEWS to their homeland (after almost 2000 years would probably NOT happened and ALL of this turmoil there now would be just a fantasy, as the RoP would rule supreme and our gas would be cheaper (For we would not be a 'friend' of the JEWS) and Arabic would be taught to ALL the schoolkids in Detroit!

So, IMHO, I'd have to say that the Nazi's appear to have done the same kind of things that have been done historically to the 'Jews', so yes, I think that they did.

______________________________

Sorry again,

Apology accepted.

but it isn't I that says 'they are going to hell:

Did you forget this exchange: No...

Me: Are Jews who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?

Elsie: Yes

Did someone else type that response? no...

Are Heathens who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Satan worshippers who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Child molesters who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are murderers who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Muslims who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Hindus who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are atheists who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Evolutionists who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Jehovah Witnesses who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Mormons who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Creationists who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Catholics who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Baptists who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Methodists who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are Pentacostals who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are non-denominationalists who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?
Are 'good people' who died without accepting Christ doomed to Hell?

Yes, yes, yes, yes............ and yes.

According to the Bible, you can belong to any organization you want (or none), but if you have NOT believed on the One He has sent, get out your asbestos panties, 'cause you're gonna need 'em!

NIV John 6:22-60
22. The next day the crowd that had stayed on the opposite shore of the lake realized that only one boat had been there, and that Jesus had not entered it with his disciples, but that they had gone away alone.
23. Then some boats from Tiberias landed near the place where the people had eaten the bread after the Lord had given thanks.
24. Once the crowd realized that neither Jesus nor his disciples were there, they got into the boats and went to Capernaum in search of Jesus.
25. When they found him on the other side of the lake, they asked him, "Rabbi, when did you get here?"
26. Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill.
27. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."
28. Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
29. Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
30. So they asked him, "What miraculous sign then will you give that we may see it and believe you? What will you do?
31. Our forefathers ate the manna in the desert; as it is written: `He gave them bread from heaven to eat.' "
32. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, it is not Moses who has given you the bread from heaven, but it is my Father who gives you the true bread from heaven.
33. For the bread of God is he who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world."
34. "Sir," they said, "from now on give us this bread."
35. Then Jesus declared, "I am the bread of life. He who comes to me will never go hungry, and he who believes in me will never be thirsty.
36. But as I told you, you have seen me and still you do not believe.
37. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
38. For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me.
39. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.
40. For my Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day."
41. At this the Jews began to grumble about him because he said, "I am the bread that came down from heaven."
42. They said, "Is this not Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How can he now say, `I came down from heaven'?"
43. "Stop grumbling among yourselves," Jesus answered.
44. "No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
45. It is written in the Prophets: `They will all be taught by God.' Everyone who listens to the Father and learns from him comes to me.
46. No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
47. I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life.
48. I am the bread of life.
49. Your forefathers ate the manna in the desert, yet they died.
50. But here is the bread that comes down from heaven, which a man may eat and not die.
51. I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever. This bread is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world."
52. Then the Jews began to argue sharply among themselves, "How can this man give us his flesh to eat?"
53. Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you have no life in you.
54. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
55. For my flesh is real food and my blood is real drink.
56. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in him.
57. Just as the living Father sent me and I live because of the Father, so the one who feeds on me will live because of me.
58. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Your forefathers ate manna and died, but he who feeds on this bread will live forever."
59. He said this while teaching in the synagogue in Capernaum.

NIV Revelation 20:11-15
11. Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them.
12. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.
13. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done.
14. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death.
15. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

"HOUSE BILL NO. 246

"A bill for an act introducinga new mathematical truth and offered as a contribution to education to be used only by the State of Indiana free of cost by paying any royalties whatever on the same, provided it is accepted and adopted by the official action of the legislature of 1897.

"Section 1. Be it enacted by the General Assembly of the State of Indiana: It has been found that a circular area is to the square on a line equal to the quadrant of the circumference, as the area of an equilateral rectangle is to the square on one side. The diameter employed as the linear unit according to the present rule in computing the circle's area is entirely wrong, as it represents the circles area one and one-fifths times the area of a square whose perimeter is equal to the circumference of the circle. This is because one-fifth of the diameter fils to be represented four times in the circle's circumference. For example: if we multiply the perimeter of a square by one-fourth of any line one-fifth greater than one side, we can, in like manner make the square's area to appear one fifth greater than the fact, as is done by taking the diameter for the linear unit instead of the quadrant of the circle's circumference.

"Section 2. It is impossible to compute the area of a circle on the diameter as the linear unit without tresspassing upon the area outside the circle to the extent of including one-fifth more area than is contained within the circle's circumference, because the square on the diameter produces the side of a square which equals nine when the arc of ninety degrees equals eight. By taking the quadrant of the circle's circumference for the linear unit, we fulfill the requirements of both quadrature and rectification of the circle's circumference. Furthermore, it has revealed the ratio of the chord and arc of ninety degrees, which is as seven to eight, and also the ratio of the diagonal and one side of a square which is as ten to seven, disclosing the fourth important fact, that the ratio of the diameter and circumference is as five-fourths to four; and because of these facts and the further fact that the rule in prresent use fails to work both ways mathematically, it should be discarded as wholly wanting and misleading in its practical applications.

"Section 3. In further proof of the value of the author's proposed contribution to education, and offered as a gift to the State of Indiana, is the fact of his solutions of the trisection of the angle, duplication of the cube and quadrature having been already accepted as contributions to science by the American Mathematical Monthly, the leading exponent of mathematical thought in this country. And be it remembered that these noted problems had been long since given up by scientific bodies as unsolvable mysteries and above man's ability to comprehend."

http://tafkac.org/legal/pi_indiana.html

Nothing about the Bible here...

Thanks for the post.

I hope these notes are of some help.
The Bible insists that is it God breathed 2 Tim 3:16 - literally 'exhaled' like breath vapor on glass.

Evangelicals therefore insist that it is inerrant - in the original language!

As you say there are various versions, and no version can claim to be inerrant - but that is why good teaching and preaching ensures the original intent is made clear. That involves study of the text and prayer.

the method must be to ask what the text meant in it's original context and then, and only then, making honest equivalent applications to today.

Interestingly an evangelical minister does not interpret the Word of God. We insist rather that the Bible is it's own interpretation and our job is to understand it and apply it. We do NOT interpret it.

There things are safeguards. Incidentally we have copies of Isaiah from the time of Jesus (the Dead Sea Scrolls) and the differences (some minor scribal errors) between now and then are astoundingly small and marginal. God seems to have preserved His word well - as you might have expected!

Think simply on this - Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Saviour - for that is the real question. But who is this Jesus? Well- the Bible tells us all about him. I follows that if we do not have confidence in the Bible then we have little confidence in knowing who Jesus is. The two are intimately correlated.

God's word is reliable. We must treat it with every integrity and that is where we often fall. Please Read 2Timothy 3:10 - 4:8 and think about the implications of the passage.

Now on Idolatry - we normally think of idols being statues. That is one form indeed. But more subtle idols are nearby.

Idolatry is putting any created being or thing before God. The sin of Adam and Eve was Idolatry - they wanted to put themselves in the place of God God... and to do this they distorted and disbelieved Gods word. Think about his - you cannot be idolatrous if you obey God's word.

there is more to say but enough for now - do reply or mail.

Kind regards in Christ Jesus.

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