Archeologist finds evidence of Old Testament Validity

Catholic News Agency ^ | January 28, 2005

[NYer]

Hamilton, Ontario, Jan. 28, 2005 (CNA) - Canadian archaeologist Russell Adams, a professor at McMaster University has recently unearthed evidence, which helps to show the historical accuracy of the Bible.

Professor Adams and his team of colleagues have found information that points to the existence of the Biblical Kingdom of Edom existing at precisely the time Scripture claims it existed.

The evidence flies in the face of a common belief that Edom actually came into existence at least 200 years later.

According to the Canadian Globe and Mail, the group’s findings “mean that those scholars convinced that the Hebrew Old Testament is at best a compendium of revisionist, fragmented history, mixed with folklore and theology, and at worst a piece of outright propaganda, likely will have to apply the brakes to their thinking.”

The Kingdom of Edom, mentioned throughout the Old Testament, and a continuous source of hostility for Biblical Israel, is thought to have existed in what is now southern Jordan.

The group made their discovery while investigating a copper mining site called Khirbat en-Nahas.

According to the Globe and Mail, radiocarbon dating of their finds, “firmly established that occupation of the site began in the 11th century BC and a monumental fortress was built in the 10th century BC, supporting the argument for existence of an Edomite state at least 200 years earlier than had been assumed.”

The evidence is also said to suggest that the Kingdom existed at the same time David, who scripture recounts as warring with Edom, was king over Israel.

[grey_whiskers]

We are saved by Grace AND by works:

Just to stir the pot, but what about Dysmas?
Yes it took physical effort to say "Lord, remember me when you come into your kingdom" but that isn't what most disputants would classify as work for most people ;-)

[narses]

"That part of the catechism has be superseded by the new position and is now null and void,,,"

Says who? What declaration of nullity exists? That definition was published in the Catechism that is the formal and dogmatic teaching of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. Hillbilly claims it is NULL. By whose authority Hillbilly?

[aspiring.hillbilly]

"The position of the Holy See, therefore, is that authorities, even for the most serious crimes, should limit themselves to non-lethal means of punishment,...."


(sounds like they are against the death penalty to me)

[narses]

I am unfamiliar with Dysmas.

[aspiring.hillbilly]

here is more evidence...

We speak in opposition to the death penalty and its possible reinstatement in Iowa. We challenge the people of Iowa, especially our own Catholic faithful, to examine the issue of capital punishment in the light of basic moral and religious values. After further review and in light of current discussions and initiatives, we speak more strongly than ever against the death penalty. We dare to take this position and we raise this challenge because of our commitment to a consistent ethic of life, by which we wish to give unambiguous witness to the sacredness of every human life from conception through natural death. We proclaim the good news that no person is beyond the redemptive mercy of God.

((((The recently updated and definitive edition of the Catechism of the Catholic Church, released September 9, 1997, includes stronger language against the death penalty to reflect the teachings of Pope John Paul II in his 1995 encyclical, Evangelium Vitae (The Gospel of Life). The new language in the Catechism states that recourse to the death penalty is not excluded "if this is the only possible way of effectively defending human lives against the unjust aggressor." The Catechism then affirms strongly that "today, in fact, as a consequence of the possibilities which the state has for effectively preventing crime ... the cases in which the execution of the offender is an absolute necessity "are very rare, if not practically non-existent" (paragraph 2267).)))

The United States Catholic Conference, responding to the situation in our country, has for more than 30 years opposed the use of capital punishment. The Iowa Catholic Conference hereby reaffirms that position. We oppose the death penalty in any form, even a "limited" death penalty.

We oppose reinstatement of the death penalty to send a message that we can break the cycle of violence, that we need not take life for life.

[grey_whiskers]

I 'twas under the impression that 'Dysmas' was the traditional name ascribed to the repentant thief on the cross next to Jesus during the Crucifixion.

I had thought that the paraphrase of the "Lord, remember me..." quote would have jogged your memory.

Cheers!

[narses]

Sure. Many Catholics want a moratorium on the death penalty, but the CATECHISM is the formal teaching of the Church, nor is working towards a society where the death penalty is no longer used either against the teaching of the Church nor in ANY WAY contradictory to the Holy Writ.

Nonetheless, your litany of lies grows tiresome. You claim to admire Bp. Sheen and yet lie about the Church that ordained him. You are a liar and a bloviator.

[narses]

I thought that might have been the case. God can do as He wills, He has told us to have faith and do good works for our salvation. I believe Him.

And yes, St. Dismas testified publicly in favor of Our Lord, for that work and faith, he was rewarded.

[Raycpa]

So, for those here who "obey the Bible 100%", James is just not really included?

James is a wonderful example of saved by works not by faith. The following from James doesn't not contradict Paul, Jesus and the Old Testament

But someone will say, "You have faith, and I have works." Show me your faith without your[d] works, and I will show you my faith by my[e] works

James explains that our faith is not faith unless it manifests itself in works.

Works without faith is possible. Faith without works is not possible. James is writing 40 to 50 years after Paul. It makes sense that James is speaking to mature Christians and that the issue of faith and grace has been settled. They are now ready to go beyond baby food (milk) and receive meat.

To help you see that the concept of saving grace, it was even taught in the OT, Psalms 33

3The LORD looks from heaven;
       He sees all the sons of men.
       ¹⁴From the place of His dwelling He looks
       On all the inhabitants of the earth;
       ¹⁵He fashions their hearts individually;
       He considers all their works.
       ¹⁶No king is saved by the multitude of an army;
       A mighty man is not delivered by great strength.
       ¹⁷A horse is a vain hope for safety;
       Neither shall it deliver any by its great strength.
       ¹⁸Behold, the eye of the LORD is on those who fear Him,
       On those who hope in His mercy,
       ¹⁹To deliver their soul from death,

[Raycpa]

Of course I am, both as an employer and a parent.

It is clear from the text that overseer in this case decribes a larger role than employer or parent because it assumes that an overseer is already good at these things.

[olde north church]

Taken from the Earth, formed by the Divine hand of God, in His own image and awakened by His Divine breath. Who would deny a creature with such a glorious heritage with a natural connection to the Creator entry to the Kingdom of Heaven?
To be Born Again is to understand and accept that lineage and take that obligation and stand with God.
There are those who prefer to engage in theological one-upsmanship in an attempt to control who receives Eternal Life. I feel comfortable with my fate, I know they will be surprised when the go to theirs.

[FatherofFive]

"Tell them that Martin Luther will have it so."

Exactly why we have 20,000 plus denominations who claim to have the way, the truth and the life. Jesus would not have set up such a system.

[olde north church]

I was wondering when he was going to come into the picture. There is no doubt he was placed there to inspire those whose lives may be unsavory that there is a chance for salvation.

[Raycpa]

Jesus would not have set up such a system.

Moses didn't seem to have a problem with it. Numbers 11:28-30

6But two men had remained in the camp: the name of one was Eldad, and the name of the other Medad. And the Spirit rested upon them. Now they were among those listed, but who had not gone out to the tabernacle; yet they prophesied in the camp. 27And a young man ran and told Moses, and said, "Eldad and Medad are prophesying in the camp.

28So Joshua the son of Nun, Moses' assistant, one of his choice men, answered and said, "Moses my lord, forbid them!"

29Then Moses said to him, "Are you zealous for my sake? Oh, that all the LORD's people were prophets and that the LORD would put His Spirit upon them!" 30And Moses returned to the camp, he and the elders of Israel.

[Rokke]

"Exactly why we have 20,000 plus denominations who claim to have the way, the truth and the life."

That's an interesting comment. The more I have studied the Catholic church, the more I have realized it is actually more divided than many protestant denominations. For example, the differences between the Roman Catholic church and many Eastern Churches seem endless. And even among Roman Catholics there seems to be a huge divide between traditional Catholic Mass and "newer" versions.

[olde north church]

The schism between the Churches is tragic. There is so much good they could provide to the world simply based upon their traditions and moral authority. It seems as if they went off into direction, the Romans going into the concept of failings in the physical world while the Eastern churches have so much to offer cerebrally, philosophically to the world.
It's almost as if the heart and the mind have been separated. The benefits of a united Church would have remarkable effects upon the world. One must wonder about how the Churches were affected by the infiltration of socialists into the Roman Church and Communists/Soviets into the Orthodox Church. I think that may be why John Paul II for all his failings has made so many overtures to reunite to them.

[Rokke]

"The schism between the Churches is tragic."

It is tragic. But the church represented by the Body of Christ cannot be divided. Despite the best efforts of man.

[CouncilofTrent]

St. Thomas Aquinas states that the killing of a criminal, if it is necessary for the whole communtity, is lawful.

[CouncilofTrent]

uhhhh.....your statements are incorrect. First, the other rites (other than the Roman rite) are all CATHOLIC. Second of all, the Traditional Latin Mass and the Novus Ordo Mass are completely different, but they, in theory, present the same thing: a sacrifice. Both are "technically" valid. This differs from the 20,000 plus churches which each divulge a different doctrine based on interpretation.

[olde north church]

How do you feel about the ritual cannibalism represented in the sacrament of Communion?