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What Must I Do To Be Saved?
Worthynews.com ^ | July 11th, 1875 | D. L. Moody

Posted on 01/21/2005 6:34:28 AM PST by P-Marlowe

Jesus Christ is calling you ...

What Must I Do To Be Saved?

Dwight Lyman Moody's Last Sermon in London. Preached in Camberwell Hall, Sunday Evening, July 11th, 1875.

Suppose you do not want to hear a sermon (on this last night) so much as you want to know how to be saved. I want, if I can, to answer that question, "What must I do to be saved?" There is no question that can come before us in this world that is so important; and I think that there is not a man in this audience to-night who does not feel interested in it.

I heard a man, when he was going out the other night, saying: "I do not believe in sudden conversion. I do not believe what the preacher said to-night, that a man could come in here a sinner, and go out a Christian." Now, I want to say that I do not believe in any other conversion. I do not believe that there ever has been a conversion in the world that was not instantaneous, and I want you to mark this: not but what many cannot tell the day nor the hour when they were converted. I will admit that: they may not know the time; but that does not change the great fact that there was a time when they passed from death unto life; that there was a time when they were born [ABCOG: begotten] into the kingdom of God. There must have been a minute when their name was written in the Book of Life. There must have been a time when they were ere lost, and a time when they were saved; but we may not be conscious when the change takes place. I believe the conversion of some is like the rising of the sun, and of others like the flashing of a meteor. But both are instantaneous, really, in the sight of God. There must be a time when life begins to rise; when the dead soul begins to live.

Now, this evening I want to take up some of the Bible illustrations. In the first place, there is the ark. There was a minute when Noah was outside of the ark, and another minute when he was inside. And, bear in mind, it was the ark that saved Noah: it was not his righteousness; it was not his feelings; it was not his tears; it was not his prayers. It was the ark that saved him. If he had tried to make an ark of his feelings, or of his prayers, or of his life, he would have been swept away: he would have been drowned with the rest. But, you see, it was the ark that saved him.

When I was in Manchester, I went into the gallery one Sunday night to have a talk with a few inquirers; and while I was talking, a business man came in, and took his seat on the outskirts of the audience. I think, at first, he had come merely to criticize, and that he was a little skeptical. At last I saw he was in tears. I turned to him, and said, " My friend, what is your difficulty?" "Well," he said, "Mr. Moody, the fact is, I cannot tell." I said, "Do you believe you are a sinner?" He said, "Yes; I know that." I said, "Christ is able to save you"; and I used one illustration after another, but he did not see it. At last I thought of the ark, and I said: "Was it Noah's feelings that saved him? Was it Noah's righteousness that saved him, or was it the ark?" "I see it, now," said he; "I see it." He got up and shook hands with me, and said: "Good-night: I must go. I have to go away by the train to-night; but I was determined to be saved before I went. I see it now."

A few days after, he came and touched me on the shoulder, and said, "Do you know me? " I said, "I know your face, but do not remember where I have seen you." He said, "Do you not remember the illustration of the ark? I said, " Yes." "It has been all light ever since," said he. "I understand it now. Christ is the Ark; He saves me; and I must get inside Him." When I went down to Manchester again, and talked to the young friends there, I found he was the brightest light among them.

Let me take another illustration. There was the blood in Goshen. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." Now He does not say, "When I see Moses' feelings, or the feelings of the people, I will pass over you"; or, "When I see you praying and weeping, I will pass over you"; but, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." It was the blood that saved them, not their righteousness. And a little child by that blood in Goshen was just as safe as Moses or Aaron or Joshua or Caleb. It was the blood that saved them. Look! there is the Jew taking the hyssop. He dips it in the blood, and strikes it on the doorpost. One minute it is not there: the next it is there. The moment the blood is there they are saved. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." Some people say, "If I were only as good as that minister I should feel so safe" or, "If I were only as good as that mother in Israel who has been praying fifty years for the poor and unfortunate, should I not feel very safe? " My friends, if you are behind the blood, you are as safe as any man or woman who has been praying for fifty years. It is not their righteousness and good works that are going to save them. They never saved any one. God says, "When I see the blood I will pass over you." [ABCOG: Moody understands "pass over" to mean "bypass". It can also mean "hover over to protect"] And when I am sheltered behind the blood, then I am saved; and if I am not sheltered behind the blood, I am not saved. That was instantaneous, was not it? God says, "When I see the blood, it shall be a token, and I will not enter." Death came down and passed over Egypt; and where the blood was on the doorpost he passed by; but where the blood could not be found, in he went and took the victim away. The great palaces could not keep out death; wealth and position could not keep out death. He went and took the Crown Prince of Egypt; he took the richest and the poorest, the highest and the lowest. Death makes no distinction, except a man is behind the blood.

My friends, be wise to-night, and get behind the blood. The blood has been shed. The blood is on the mercy-seat; and while it is there you can be saved. God is imputing to His Son your trespasses and sins. He says, "I will look at the blood on the mercy-seat." Press in, my friends; make haste and get in tonight; for the Master of the house will rise up by-and-by and shut to the door, and then there will be no hope.

Take another case. When Israel went over Jordan, God told Joshua to have six cities of refuge; three on each side of Jordan. They were to be built on a hill, where they could be seen at a great distance, and the gates were to be kept open day and night. All obstacles were to be kept out of the way, the highway was to be kept in repair, the bridges and everything in good condition, so that nothing should hinder a poor man flying to the city of refuge. If a man killed another in those days, it was considered a great disgrace if the nearest relative did not take vengeance. "An eye for an eye, and a booth for a tooth." If a man killed another, the next kinsman was bound to put him to death. But if he could escape to a city of refuge he was tried, and if it was found he had not intentionally killed the man, he might live.

Now for my illustration. Suppose I have killed a man. I am out away in the woods working, and my axe slips out of my hand, and kills the man working with me. I know that his kinsman, his brother, is not far away. The news will soon reach him that I have killed his brother. What shall I do? I start for the city of refuge, over there away on the hill, ten miles off. I run - and we are told that in those days there used to be signposts with the word " Refuge," written in great red letters, so that a man might read as he ran; he need not stop. I have been told that there was a finger pointing towards the city, and a man who could not read might see the hand. A man does not have to learn to read before he can be saved. I see that hand; it is pointing to the city of refuge. The gate is wide open, but it is ten miles away. I leap over the highway. I do not look behind, to the right hand or to the left. I do not listen to this man or to that man, but, like John Bunyan, I put my fingers in my ears. The avenger has drawn his sword, and is on my track. I leap over into the highway; and, pretty soon, I can hear him behind me, Away I go, over that bridge, across that stream, up that mountain, along that valley, - but I can hear him coming nearer and nearer. There is the watchman; I can see him on the wall of the city. He gives notice to the inhabitants that a refugee is coming. I see the citizens on the wall of the city watching, and when I get near I hear them calling, "Run, run! Escape, escape! He is very near you! Run! escape!" I press on; leap through the gate of the city; and at last I am safe. One minute I am outside, and the next I am inside. One minute I am exposed to that sword; it may come down upon me at any minute: the next minute I am safe. Do I feel any difference? I feel I am behind the walls: that is the difference. It is a fact. There I am. The avenger can come up to the gates of the city, but he cannot come in. He cannot lay his sword upon me. The law of the land shields me now. I am under the protection of that city; I have saved my life; but I had no time for lingering.

A great many of you are trying to get into the city of refuge, and there are enemies trying to stop you, But do not listen to them. Your friends tell you to escape. Make haste! Delay not for a single moment!

In our country, before the war, when we had slavery, the slaves used to keep their eye on the north star. If a slave escaped to the Northern States, his old master could come and take him back into slavery. But there was another flag on American soil, and if they could only get under that flag they were for ever free. It is called the Union Jack. If they could only get as far north as Canada they were free; therefore they kept looking towards the north star. But they knew if they only got into the Northern States, there might be some one ready to take them back. So it is with every poor sinner who wants to come to Christ. Many men do all they can to hinder him; others will cheer him on. Let us help every man towards the north star. A man has escaped: perhaps he swims across the Mississippi river, or crosses the Ohio river in a little canoe. The master hears of it, and he takes his hounds and sets them on his track, and begins to hunt him down. The slave hears the hounds; and he knows that his master is coming to take him back to slavery. The line is a mile or two away. He escapes as fast as he can. He runs with all his might for the frontier, over hedges and ditches and rivers; away he goes for Canada. By-and-by he comes in sight of Canada. He can see that flag floating in front of him; and he knows that if he can only cross the line before his master and the hounds overtake him, he will be free for ever.

How the poor black man runs! leaping and bounding along; and at last, with one bound, he goes over the line. He is free! One minute he is a slave; the next minute he is a free man, under the flag of Queen Victoria, the British flag! (cheers [ABCOG: by British crowd]) - don't cheer, my friends, but come to Christ - and your laws say that no man under that flag shall be a slave. One minute he is a slave; the next minute he is a free man. One minute it is possible for his old master to drag him back; the next minute he shouts, "Free!"

If Christ tells us that we are free, we are free. My friends, Christ is calling to-night. Get out of the devil's territory as quick as you can. No slave in the Southern States had so hard a master as yours, nor so mean a master as Satan. Take my advice tonight, and escape for the liberty of your soul.

I can imagine some of you saying "I do not see how a man is really going to be converted all at once." Let me give you another illustration. Look down there. There are two soldiers. Now, if you bring those soldiers up to this platform, and ask them how they became soldiers, they will tell you this - that one moment they were citizens, and the next minute soldiers. What was it that made them soldiers? It was when they took the Queen's shilling. The moment they received that shilling they ceased to be citizens, and they became soldiers. Before they received that shilling they could go where they pleased; the next minute they came under the government and under the regulations of the army, and they must go where Queen Victoria sends them. They did not have to wait for the uniform. The minute they received the shilling they became soldiers. What made them soldiers? Receiving the shilling. What makes a man a Christian? Receiving Christ. "He came unto His own, and His own received Him not: but as many as received Him, to them gave He power to become the sons of God."

Now, the gift of God is eternal life. Who will have the gift to-night? When I was down in Manchester I asked that question, and a man shouted in the meeting, "I will! " Who will have it now? Is not there some man here in London, as there was in Manchester, who will say that he will have the gift? Is it not a wonder to have to plead with so many to take the gift? "The wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life." Who will have the gift now? (Many responses of "I will"; "I will.")

I can imagine one man down there who says "How about repentance? How about getting into the ark or the city of refuge before repentance?" My friend, let me ask you what is repentance? It is right-about-face! I think these soldiers understand that expression. Some one has said that every one is born with his back to God, and that conversion turns him right round. If you want to be converted, and want to repent, I will tell you what you should do. Just get out of Satan's service, and get into the Lord's. Leave your old friends, and unite yourself with God's people.

In a few days, if nothing happens, I expect to go to Liverpool. If, when I am in the train, my friend Mr. Shipton says, "Moody, you are going in the wrong train, - that train is going to Edinburgh" - I should say, "Mr. Shipton, you have made a great mistake; somebody told me the train was going to Liverpool. You are wrong, Mr. Shipton; I am sure you are wrong." Then Mr. Shipton would say, "Moody, I have lived here forty years, and I know all about the trains. He must have been very ignorant or very vicious who told you that train goes to Liverpool." Mr. Shipton at last convinces me, and I get out of that train and get into the one going to Liverpool.

Repentance is getting out of one train and getting into the other. You are in the wrong train; you are in the broad path that takes you down to the pit of hell. Get out of it to-night. Right-about-face! Who will turn his feet towards God? "Turn ye, for why will ye die?" In the Old Testament the word is "turn." In the New Testament the word is "repent." "Turn ye, for why will ye die, O house of Israel?" God does not want any man in this audience to perish, but He wants all to be saved. You can be saved now if you will.

There is another illustration I wish I had time to dwell upon and that is about looking. There is that serpent in the wilderness. "As Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man also be lifted up, that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Look here! Just give me your attention for a few minutes. "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ." How long does it take a man to believe? Or, if you will, how long does it take a man to look? Some people say they believe in educating people to be Christians. How long do you educate children to look? You hear the mother say, "Look," and the little child looks. It does not take a child three months to learn to look. Look and live! You need not go to college to learn how to look. There is not a child here but knows how to look. Christ says, "Look unto me; for I am [ABCOG: the way to] God, and there is none else."

There is the brazen serpent on the pole. God says to the children of Israel, who are dying of the bite of the fiery serpents - "Look, and live!"

Now, there is nothing in looking at a piece of brass which can cure the bite of a serpent. It is God who cures it, and the looking is the condition. It is obedience; and that is what God will have.

One moment the poor sufferer is dying; the next there comes a thrill of life through his veins, and he lives: he is well. My friends, look to Christ, and not to yourselves. That is what is the matter with a great many sinners; instead of looking to Christ, they are looking at the bite.

It is not looking to the wound; it is looking to the remedy. Christ is the remedy of sin. What you want is to look from the wound to the remedy - to Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith. Who will look tonight, and live? Turn your eye to Calvary; believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved.


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KEYWORDS: 230; dwightlmoody; moody; salvation; transcript
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To: jkl1122
If you are remotely interested there are other interpretations to Acts 2:38 than YOUR interpretation.

"We feel that Dr. A. T. Robertson's comments from earlier this century are very meaningful:"

"This phrase is the subject of endless controversy as men look at it from the standpoint of sacramental or of evangelical theology. In themselves the words can express aim or purpose for that use of "eis" does exist as in 1 Cor. 2:7....But then another usage exists which is just as good Greek as the use of "eis" for aim or purpose. It is seen in Matt. 10:41 in three examples "eis onoma prophetou, diakaiou, mathetou" where it cannot be purpose or aim, but rather the basis or ground, on the basis of the name of prophet, righteous man, disciple, because one is, etc. It is seen again in Matt. 12:41 about the preaching of Jonah....They repented because of (or at) the preaching of Jonah. The illustrations of both usages are numerous in the N.T. and the Koine generally (Robertson, Grammar, p. 592). One will decide the use here according as he believes that baptism is essential to the remission of sins or not. My view is decidedly against the idea that Peter, Paul, or any one in the New Testament taught baptism as essential to the remission of sins or the means of securing such remission. So I understand Peter to be urging baptism on each of them who had already turned (repented) and for it to be done in the name of Jesus Christ on the basis of the forgiveness of sins which they had already received (A. T. Robertson, Word Pictures in the New Testament, III:35-36)."

I'll refer you to A Brief Rebuttal of Baptismal Regeneration by James White for a more detailed analysis.

IMHO-

The belief by some groups of baptismal regeneration has been around for 20 centuries. It is held by the Roman Catholics, Mormons, Church of Christ and others. I'm confident you and I are not going to clear this up.

801 posted on 01/27/2005 12:09:36 PM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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To: thePilgrim
"I catch a lot of grief from the Arminians because I am no longer one of them."

I understand completely.

802 posted on 01/27/2005 12:14:24 PM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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To: HarleyD

I am very familiar with A.T. Robertson's comments on this issue. I will humbly submit that he, like you, are biased. If you will notice, he conveniently leaves out Matthew 26:28, which is the verse that contains the exact same Greek phrase as Acts 2:38. In the Matthew passage, Christ Himself says that His blood was shed for remission of sins. I doubt you would say that in that passage, Christ is saying that He shed his blood because of the remission of sins, would you? Then why do you want to translate Acts 2:38 in that manner, even though no reputable translation on the face of this earth has ever translated Acts 2:38 that way?

You still have not logically answered how you can translate the same phrase, not just the word eis, but the same entire phrase, two totally opposite ways.


803 posted on 01/27/2005 12:27:11 PM PST by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
Well, I have plenty more.

Baptism and Acts 2:38 by Matt Slick

Is Baptism Necessary for Salvation? A Critical Analysis of the Doctrine of Baptismal Regeneration By E. Calvin Beisner

Baptismal Regeneration By Dustin Shramek

Most of these experts agree on the Greek construct. And at some point in time they can't all be bias-except perhaps to you who wish to further your interpretation. To say "no reputable translation on the face of this earth has ever translated Acts 2:38 that way" is, well wouldn't you say, an overstatement. If nothing else, the Greek documents agree which is what I base my references. At best all you can say for this verse is that it is questionable which is a pretty poor thing to hang an entire theological position on. Especially when there are other conflicting verses which never mentions baptism.

As far as Matt 26:28 goes, I will not hop around the scriptures. I've had too many people play that game with me before. You fail to make your point with me on how unregenerated people can want to be baptized and failed in explaining how people (not just Cornelius) can be filled with the Holy Spirit (our guarantee) prior to being baptized as so many different scriptures point out.

If you want to believe it is your baptism which saves you that is your business between God.

804 posted on 01/27/2005 1:05:00 PM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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To: HarleyD

If so many "experts" agree that Acts 2:38 means "because of remission of sins", then show me ONE translation of the Bible that translates it that way. My guess is that you can't, which says a lot about your argument.

I don't believe I have a salvation based on works, I have a salvation based on Jesus giving His life on the Cross for the forgiveness of my sins, and my submission to His will.

To God be the Glory!


805 posted on 01/27/2005 1:10:09 PM PST by jkl1122
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To: HarleyD
God works exactly the same way in everyone's life. God show no partiality. Period.

He doesn't!

Well, then why are some elect and some not, according to Calvinism?

806 posted on 01/27/2005 1:20:31 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: HarleyD

"I will not hop around the scriptures"

That is a very telling statement. You would rather point to denominational "experts" for proof than deal with what Christ said in His Word. I am more than happy to "hop around the scriptures" all day long. That is the only true way to know what is right (2 Timothy 2:15).


807 posted on 01/27/2005 1:26:29 PM PST by jkl1122
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To: thePilgrim
***The money isn't in your account, it is a account that you have been given access to, but you have to claim it.*** This is not what you said. You are talking out of both sides of your mouth. Here is EXACTLY what you said when you FIRST gave your analogy: "I put a million dollars in your bank account." I think you need to go back and figure out what kind of analogy you want to present before you talk yourself into a corner and need to start contradicting yourself in order to try and make your analogy make sense.

If there was some confusion in the analogy, it was quickly corrected in the following post.

But, the point of the analogy was made very clear, that you had a gift made (that you did not earn) but had to approbiate it in order to use it.

Now, if you want to play little word games and show how clever you can be by not getting the point, move on, I do not have any more time to waste with you.

It is clear from your posts with others, that you think you are a very 'smart' guy who thinks he knows alot more then you really do.

I'm just going on EXACTLY what you told me in the beginning. You told me that the million dollars was in MY bank account. Now, you tell me that the million isn't in my account.

Ok, so then make the adjustment, the money is an account (lets say Swiss)

When you figure out exactly what it is that YOU believe, you be sure and get back to me. Ok!

It is.

***Now, that is quite amazing. You know its there-how?*** Well, I think that is self evidently obvious. You know that your debt has been paid because you don't get sent to debtors prison. This analogy isn't hard, ftd.

Fine, so your debt has been paid by a generous individual.

***You have to believe to get saved, believe in the Person and Work of the saviour.*** This is exactly the backward way that Arminians read such passages as John 10:26. In point of fact, people don't believe BECAUSE they are not sheep, exactly and explicitly as such passages as John 10:26 say.

Oh, is that right!

What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts.16)

Nothing like taking a passage out of context.

Salvation is through faith, and by faith not before it.(Rom.3:25, Rom.5:1, Eph.2:8-9)

As for Jn.10:27, Jesus never says they can't believe only that they won't.

Thus, because those Jews would not believe they were not Christ's sheep.

In fact,in vs 38, Christ again exhorts them to believe in Him.

There is nothing in John 6 or 10 that states that God regenerates before faith, or only the elect can believe.

Let's look at the modified analogy again: "Let us say that you owe a million dollars and that if you don't pay, you will be cast into debtors prison until the full debt is paid. Some man comes along and pays your debt. There is not any requirement for you to accept this gift; it was legally applied to your account for your benefit. All you must do is enjoy the gift. Now, that makes more sense than this bank job weirdness."

Nothing wrong with the analogy as it stands.

Someone stands in and pays your debt, but that only goes to one side of the problem, removal of sin.

You also need God's righteousness to enter into heaven (Jn.3:3-4, Matt.5)

So, the unbelievers debt has also been paid (Heb.2:9, 1Jn.2:2, Rom.5:15), yet they do not believe it and continue to try and work to pay it off.(it is too good to be true)

Or analogy does show the issue of grace, that someone else pays the debt, but that is all it shows.

It doesn't show that only a particular debtor debt has been paid (and the subject was unlimited vs limited atonement) or that the person who has had his debt paid accepts the fact that he is now legally debt free.

First off, I'll point out that in your silly analogy you did EXACTLY say that "I put a million dollars in your bank account." I correctly pointed out that if the million is in MY account, then there is nothing I need do further. Of course, realizing that you had talked yourself into a corner, you've tried to change your analogy. Well, I've modified it for you to make it Biblical so there is no need now for you to contradict yourself. Simply admit that you had it all wrong and embrace something better. Just look... Luke 7:41 "There was a certain creditor who had two debtors. One owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. And when they had nothing with which to repay, he freely forgave them both. Tell Me, therefore, which of them will love him more?" Now, the Lord Jesus used this analogy of a freely forgiven debt more than once. And, not once in any of the times did the Lord use the analogy was there an element of the debtor having to accept the gift of the payment in order for it to actually apply to him. It is just not to be found. IOW, you are just making up stuff which has no Biblical relevance. To be honest, it is in effect adding an unBiblical requirement to the gospel. Now, I'm sure you will note if you check The Parable of the Unforgiving Servant in Matthew that the wicked servant actually begged his master to forgive him. Before you wrongfully think that this somehow helps you out, let me point out something for you. Boldly walking up to your Master and simply informing him that you freely accept his gift of forgiving your debt is tantamount to a blasphemy against the person of the Son. It is highly irreverent. The wicked servant actually got this part right: he BEGGED his master to forgive him. You see, first of all, our Master is under no obligation to forgive. To say that he is under obligation is to flat out declare that he actually owed something to man. And that is just plain blasphemy. Secondly, there is a big difference between begging for forgiveness and informing your master that you presumptuously accept his forgiveness. On both points, your Arminianism falls woefully short. This isn't hard, ftd.

What seems to be hard for you is staying on topic.

We were discussing Unlimited vs Limited Atonement, and that is what my analogy was dealing with.

You want to tap dance around and bring in another issue.

Now, faith is how we accept the gift.

No one is presumptious in anything, when we are told that is how we are to behave by God Himself.

The topic you raised was dealing with the Atonement, not salvation by faith vs regeneration.

When you can stay on topic longer then a single post, let me know.

808 posted on 01/27/2005 1:55:04 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: jkl1122; HarleyD
I have a salvation based on Jesus giving His life on the Cross for the forgiveness of my sins, and my submission to His will.

That's a clear statement of your position.

Do you not see that you are adding to Christ's redemptive work by your own agreement to "submit to His will?" This submission is dependent on your good sense, piety and righteousness, not upon Christ's redemptive sacrifice alone.

I remember when that was first pointed out to me. It took another 50 times to finally be able to say "Oh, NOW I get it!" Salvation is either all of God, ordained by Him from before the foundation of the world according to His will alone, or men share in the decision of salvation through temporal means, i.e. agreement, submission, sacramental participation, financial support, intelligence, desires, yadayadayada...The closer to Rome, the more requirements in order to be saved.

Either/or. Monergistic/synergistic. God saved me/I help God save me.

809 posted on 01/27/2005 2:06:23 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

I have Biblical support for my position.

Matthew 7:21
"Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will
of My Father in heaven."


810 posted on 01/27/2005 2:12:27 PM PST by jkl1122
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To: fortheDeclaration; thePilgrim; RnMomof7; HarleyD
Salvation is through faith

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" -- Ephesians 2:8

Saved by grace through faith.

If Paul had wanted to say what you said, he would have written "Faith saves you."

He didn't. He said "Grace saves you." And God bestows His saving grace through faith in Jesus Christ.

That's why salvation IS NOT a work of man, since man has nothing to do with God's grace. Salvation is of the Lord alone.

The world turns on the understanding of a couple prepositions.

811 posted on 01/27/2005 2:14:11 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: jkl1122
Matthew 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven."

By our fruits are we known.

But our fruits have nothing to do with our salvation. Only God saves. He wrote the names of the elect in the Book of Life from before the foundation of the world. And none whom the Father has given the Son can be lost. All Scripture, Old and New Testaments, can be summed up in these short verses:

"Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.

My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.

My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

I and my Father are one." -- John 10: 25-30.

Christ came to gather the sheep. Thank you, God, that you and I are among them, through nothing in ourselves, but only through the redeeming sacrifice of Jesus Christ.

812 posted on 01/27/2005 2:26:04 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: jkl1122; HarleyD; thePilgrim; RnMomof7; GLENNS
And who are the sheep?

"Know ye that the LORD he is God: it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture." -- Psalms 100:3

The sheep have always belonged to the Good Shepherd. And He loses not one of them.

813 posted on 01/27/2005 2:37:24 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
Salvation is through faith "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God" -- Ephesians 2:8 Saved by grace through faith. If Paul had wanted to say what you said, he would have written "Faith saves you." He didn't. He said "Grace saves you." And God bestows His saving grace through faith in Jesus Christ. That's why salvation IS NOT a work of man, since man has nothing to do with God's grace. Salvation is of the Lord alone. The world turns on the understanding of a couple prepositions.

It would seem so, and you can't seem to understand them.

Here is the Calvinist, A.T.Robinson, considered the foremost Greek scholar of his day,

For by grace (th gar cariti). Explanatory reason. "By the grace" already mentioned in verse Romans 5 and so with the article. Through faith (dia pistewß). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in verse Romans 5 to make it plainer. "Grace" is God's part, "faith" ours. And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tauth, and so refers not to pistiß (feminine) or to cariß (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex umwn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God's gift (dwron) and not the result of our work.

Did Paul ever say that we are saved by faith?

Yes, he did in Rom.5:1.

Through: by means of; by an agency of, noting instrumentality (sanctify them through thy truth (Jn.17)(American Dictionary of the English Language)

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/JamiesonFaussetBrown/jfb.cgi?book=eph&chapter=002

Below is the JFB commentary.

The instrument or mean of salvation on the part of the person saved; Christ alone is the meritorious agent.

Calvin states, The next question is, in what way do men receive that salvation which is offered to them by the hand of God? The answer is, by faith;

Here is the Calvinist Gill,

through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; salvation is through faith, not as a cause or condition of salvation, or as what adds anything to the blessing itself; but it is the way, or means, or instrument, which God has appointed, for the receiving and enjoying it,

http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/GillsExpositionoftheBible/gil.cgi?book=eph&chapter=002&verse=008&next=009&prev=007

Anymore questions on how through is being used?

Calvinists A.T. Robinson, Gill, and Calvin all say it is the instrument by which we are saved, not just a sign that we are saved

814 posted on 01/27/2005 2:57:16 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration

I'll refer you to #794 where I answered this question in detail.


815 posted on 01/27/2005 3:48:43 PM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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To: jkl1122
"You would rather point to denominational "experts" for proof than deal with what Christ said in His Word."

Don't give me this bibber-babber. These are people from multiple denominations. They've showed you what the Greek said but, yeah, everyone is bias against your opinion.

Well if you're happy to hop around then hop on over to this verse:

Rom 10:17 "So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ."

You won't find anything about baptism on how we receive our faith and without faith it is impossible to please Him. But you'll probably ignore that just as you've ignored other examples in Acts.

816 posted on 01/27/2005 3:58:45 PM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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To: HarleyD
Maybe you listed the wrong post, but that post had nothing to do with why some people get elected and some are damned (if God is not a respector of persons)

Now, in terms of spiritual gifts, God can give whatever gift He chooses and there is no problem with 'fairness' since each gift is equal to every other in the Body in importance to the Body(1Cor.12)

817 posted on 01/27/2005 4:17:28 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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To: fortheDeclaration; HarleyD; GLENNS; thePilgrim; RnMomof7
You continue to offer our side of the debate and call it your own.

Fine by me. Grace saves. Faith is the instrument God employs to bestow His grace. It's what we've been saying from day one.

Calvinists A.T. Robinson, Gill, and Calvin all say it is the instrument by which we are saved, not just a sign that we are saved

God could have given us a fortune cookie to tell us of His bestowal of grace, ftd, with the following verse inside...

"YOU ARE SAVED BY THE ATONING SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST WHO DIED IN YOUR STEAD. FALL TO YOUR KNEES AND THANK GOD ALMIGHTY

But the cookie doesn't save us; HIS GRACE SAVES US through faith in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

One day, God willing, you'll get the distinction. It's the difference between Geneva and Rome. Monergism/synergism.

818 posted on 01/27/2005 4:19:52 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg (There are very few shades of gray.)
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To: fortheDeclaration; Dr. Eckleburg
Pleazzzzeee! How many times have we talked about this- round and round and round! Here's what the Westminster Confession has to say:

I. The grace of faith, whereby the elect are enabled to believe to the saving of their souls,[1] is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts,[2] and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the Word,[3] by which also, and by the administration of the sacraments, and prayer, it is increased and strengthened.[4]

II. By this faith, a Christian believes to be true whatsoever is revealed in the Word, for the authority of God Himself speaking therein;[5] and acts differently upon that which each particular passage thereof contains; yielding obedience to the commands,[6] trembling at the threatenings,[7] and embracing the promises of God for this life, and that which is to come.[8] But the principal acts of saving faith are accepting, receiving, and resting upon Christ alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life, by virtue of the covenant of grace.[9]

III. This faith is different in degrees, weak or strong;[10] may often and many ways assailed, and weakened, but gets the victory:[11] growing up in many to the attainment of a full assurance, through Christ,[12] who is both the author and finisher of our faith.[13]

Faith is a gift from God as pointed out in the confession.

819 posted on 01/27/2005 4:30:18 PM PST by HarleyD (aka Codename: Heretic Harley-Ignorant Savage)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg; xzins; Corin Stormhands; P-Marlowe
You continue to offer our side of the debate and call it your own. Fine by me. Grace saves. Faith is the instrument God employs to bestow His grace. It's what we've been saying from day one.

No, you did not say that faith was an instrument, you said it was a result of regeneration.

And as those theologians stated it is what man is required to do.

Calvinists A.T. Robinson, Gill, and Calvin all say it is the instrument by which we are saved, not just a sign that we are saved God could have given us a fortune cookie to tell us of His bestowal of grace, ftd, with the following verse inside... "YOU ARE SAVED BY THE ATONING SACRIFICE OF JESUS CHRIST WHO DIED IN YOUR STEAD. FALL TO YOUR KNEES AND THANK GOD ALMIGHTY But the cookie doesn't save us; HIS GRACE SAVES US through faith in the redemptive work of Jesus Christ.

You have to believe what the message says before you are saved.

Faith cometh by hearing, not by regeneration. (Rom.10:17)

That means that faith is how we are saved and how we approbriate Grace.

One day, God willing, you'll get the distinction. It's the difference between Geneva and Rome. Monergism/synergism.

No, one day you will actually believe what the scripture says.

So, in your Christian walk, how is your faith?

Are you choosingto yield to God or rejecting God and sinning.

Or does God do the choosing there also, giving you the faith sometimes and allowing you to sin others?

Faith is how we walk with God, Faith is how we are saved by God.

Faith is how we please God.

And believing is what you choose to do or not do.

I expect that in a month you will be back proclaiming that faith is a sign that you have been regenerated and not an instrument to obtain that regeneration.

820 posted on 01/27/2005 4:38:09 PM PST by fortheDeclaration
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