I'm a liberal and I'm here to learn

[rogerv]

Hi, gang,

I was a regular contributor to the Kerry Online Forum and am now a regular contributor to the Common Ground Common Sense forum. I am a liberal, but I'll be the first to admit, I don't have all the answers. In fact, many of hte questions that matter to me probably matter to you too. I'm concerned with questions about how to tame power, whether governmental or corporate. I'm concern with the rule of law and how we can get the powerful to take it seriously. I'm concerned with the erosion of civil liberties. And yes, I am concerned about some things you may associate with liberalism--social safety nets and taking care of those who fall through the institutional cracks.

I'm here because I think agreement is overrated and that critics can be your best friends: they keep you from getting sloppy or careless. At any rate, I think there are things I can learn from you. I don't expect you are all agreed on anything--I expect there is a lot of diversity of opinion here. If you are interested in what I have said over at Common Ground Common Sense, I'm using the same handle both places, and you should feel free to come over and look around.

Anyway, I'm new here. Anybody care to give me a tour?

[kilowhskey]

Are you learning anything?

[geopyg]

Reagan said something like "It's not that liberals don't know much, it's just that what they know just ain't so."

[iconoclast]

Good post.

[Jaded]

OMG, someone who can use punctuation, capitalization AND paragraphs! (I can overlook the typo) What is this world coming to?

[MeekOneGOP]

:^D

[TeaDumper]

Assuming you are what you professed to be we will consider you a rare liberal who actually courts a dialog with us.

One possible starting point is to consider what motivates a lot of our interest in government / politics. In my own case, the first rule of government ought to be "first do no harm". In todays environment, I'd have to say one of my prime motivators is to defend myself / family from tyranny by government and to uphold those elegant words in the preamble to the constitution.

You might be surprise to learn that I, too, have concerns over "big" business, and so on. But in my lifetime, a lot of the real (as opposed to political flame) are sanctioned and encouraged by government. After all, why do you think there is so much "big" money in politics? The answer is that "big" anything is not motivated by altruism, but for economic advantage. In the marketplace that means they have to make products that I WANT to buy (no one can force me to buy). But since the marketplace can be fiercely competitive, the "bigs" all love to get their Senator / Congressperson / Bureaucrat to build favoritism into the laws and regulations - that they can't get through the marketplace. So every time you year of some "big" get behind a political candidate you can bet they are trying to either 1) win new favoritism, 2) protect their existing advantage, or 3) defend themselves against some other "big" from giving them a competitive handicap.

So don't give us a load of @$%$^& about this or that party / candidate being in the pocket of the bigs and all the other ones are pure as snow.

[iconoclast]

Wow ... I was a near centerist Libertarian.

[oldcomputerguy]

"My concern is that any form of power can be abused. When corporations get too powerful, one gets anticompetitive behavior."

Compared to the past, there IS no anticompetitive behavior these days. Yes power can be abused and in fact you can rest assured it always will be abused, it is human nature.

Your children's ages say that you are young. The young are generally always idealistic and that is a good thing. Experience, age and wisdom, however, teach you that that idealism is largely but not completely misplaced and unachievable That is why each generation achieves only a little of what the younger generation thinks it can and age turns you conservative.

Social crusaders only come to frutition if there is popular support for their cause which is why PETA and the envirowackos have gone nowhere. When a problem actually exists, there will be popular support. If there is no popular support, it really isn't a problem.

[Zavien Doombringer]

so was I...don't feel bad :)

[sneakers]

Same here houeto.

I grew up in a union family.

The Democratic Party left me. Not visa versa! I've changed and I've never looked back.

[Diva Betsy Ross]

Heeheee! It is not you that I am concerned about!

[zeugma]

What about the fact that machineguns are completely legal to own if registered. Oh by the way you can not register them any more.

Check out these two appelate court decisions:

• U.S. v. Dalton
• U.S. v. Rock Island Armory

Very enlightening indeed.

[Mudboy Slim]

"Unless conservatives assert their right to speak, the liberals will shout them down everytime."

I reckon there's a fine line then...it's not enuff to cause me to turn the channel when Ms. Coulter's on, that's fer sure!!

FReegards...MUD

[mvpel]

"We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans..."
-- William Jefferson Clinton, USA Today, March 11, 1993.

"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step."
-- Janet Reno

"Banning guns is an idea whose time has come."
--U.S. Sen. Joseph Biden Associated Press 11/18/93

"Banning guns addresses a fundamental right of all Americans to feel safe."
--U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein Associated Press 11/18/93

"No, we are not looking at how to control criminals, we are talking about banning the AK47 and semi-automatic guns!"
-- Senator Metzenbaum (D-OH), during the Constitution Subcommittee of 2/10/89

"With a 10,000% tax we could tax them out of existence."
--U.S. Sen. Daniel Patrick Moynihan Washington Post 11/4/93

"If I could have gotten 51 votes in the Senate of the United States for an outright ban, picking up every one of them... "Mr. and Mrs. America, turn 'em all in, "I would have done it. I could not do that. The votes weren't here."
--U.S. Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-CA), CBS-TV's "60 Minutes," 2/5/95

And one from a well-known leftist pundit:

"Ban the damn things (guns). Ban them all. You want protection? Get a dog."
-- Molly Ivins, columnist, 7/19/94

[Allan]

bump

[rogerv]

OK.

[iconoclast]

Deplorable logic. It has not yet been demonstrated to my own satisfaction -- or to the satisfaction of most posters here -- that conservative government (in general) or this administration (in particular) has any problem re: "power and its abuses." Unlike, say, the Clinton White House.

You simply can't be serious, you are either being facetious or you're outright scary!

I grant you that 9/11 made it new ball game, but (IMHO) martial law should have been declared with automatic, periodic, specified reviews of all subsequent, related legislation.

[Zavien Doombringer]

I didn't think you were m'lady (low bow)

[rogerv]

I wish I were young! No, I got a late start. I'm 50, actually.