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I'm a liberal and I'm here to learn

Posted on 12/10/2004 9:37:54 AM PST by rogerv

Hi, gang,

I was a regular contributor to the Kerry Online Forum and am now a regular contributor to the Common Ground Common Sense forum. I am a liberal, but I'll be the first to admit, I don't have all the answers. In fact, many of hte questions that matter to me probably matter to you too. I'm concerned with questions about how to tame power, whether governmental or corporate. I'm concern with the rule of law and how we can get the powerful to take it seriously. I'm concerned with the erosion of civil liberties. And yes, I am concerned about some things you may associate with liberalism--social safety nets and taking care of those who fall through the institutional cracks.

I'm here because I think agreement is overrated and that critics can be your best friends: they keep you from getting sloppy or careless. At any rate, I think there are things I can learn from you. I don't expect you are all agreed on anything--I expect there is a lot of diversity of opinion here. If you are interested in what I have said over at Common Ground Common Sense, I'm using the same handle both places, and you should feel free to come over and look around.

Anyway, I'm new here. Anybody care to give me a tour?


TOPICS: Heated Discussion
KEYWORDS: blogpimp; brownshirtsforkerry; bukkake; civilwar2; civilwarii; commonground; findyouranswers; freedom; freeperinfusion; heterophobic; heterosexualagenda; imabedwetter; imlost; justpassingthrough; kerrybetrayedamerica; kerryonline; liar; liberal; liberalinthehouse; marxism; mobyisthatyou; nannystate; nevermyfault; newbievanity; pc; politicallycorrect; postandrun; postingorgy; redroger; reprogramming; satanic; socialist; sodelluded; troll; warthog; welcometofr; youbepimpin; zot
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To: pbrown

I agree with you in that I have been reading his posts on the Common Ground board. He's an academic elite, a progressive, who thinks Bush is a gay and race-baiter, thinks Soros is genius, and wants to talk to "us" to change consciousness.


421 posted on 12/10/2004 11:25:26 AM PST by debg
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To: BJungNan
He has to expect a little razing when he walks into the room.

Especially when he's so slow replying to anyone.

422 posted on 12/10/2004 11:26:02 AM PST by Just another Joe (Warning: FReeping can be addictive and helpful to your mental health)
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To: rogerv
Actually, I think it would be a good start to reduce the presidency to the weak executive the Constitution describes.

Perhaps you could point out where the executive has overcome his weakness according to his job description?


Article II.

Section. 1.

Clause 1:

The executive Power shall be vested in a President of the United States of America. He shall hold his Office during the Term of four Years, and, together with the Vice President, chosen for the same Term, be elected, as follows:

Clause 2:

Each State shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress: but no Senator or Representative, or Person holding an Office of Trust or Profit under the United States, shall be appointed an Elector.

Clause 3:

The Electors shall meet in their respective States, and vote by Ballot for two Persons, of whom one at least shall not be an Inhabitant of the same State with themselves. And they shall make a List of all the Persons voted for, and of the Number of Votes for each; which List they shall sign and certify, and transmit sealed to the Seat of the Government of the United States, directed to the President of the Senate. The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and House of Representatives, open all the Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes shall be the President, if such Number be a Majority of the whole Number of Electors appointed; and if there be more than one who have such Majority, and have an equal Number of Votes, then the House of Representatives shall immediately chuse by Ballot one of them for President; and if no Person have a Majority, then from the five highest on the List the said House shall in like Manner chuse the President. But in chusing the President, the Votes shall be taken by States, the Representation from each State having one Vote; A quorum for this Purpose shall consist of a Member or Members from two thirds of the States, and a Majority of all the States shall be necessary to a Choice. In every Case, after the Choice of the President, the Person having the greatest Number of Votes of the Electors shall be the Vice President. But if there should remain two or more who have equal Votes, the Senate shall chuse from them by Ballot the Vice President.

Clause 4:

The Congress may determine the Time of choosing the Electors, and the Day on which they shall give their Votes; which Day shall be the same throughout the United States.

Clause 5:

No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any Person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.

Clause 6:

In Case of the Removal of the President from Office, or of his Death, Resignation, or Inability to discharge the Powers and Duties of the said Office, the Same shall devolve on the VicePresident, and the Congress may by Law provide for the Case of Removal, Death, Resignation or Inability, both of the President and Vice President, declaring what Officer shall then act as President, and such Officer shall act accordingly, until the Disability be removed, or a President shall be elected.

Clause 7:

The President shall, at stated Times, receive for his Services, a Compensation, which shall neither be encreased nor diminished during the Period for which he shall have been elected, and he shall not receive within that Period any other Emolument from the United States, or any of them.

Clause 8:

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Section. 2.

Clause 1:

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any Subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment.

Clause 2:

He shall have Power, by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, to make Treaties, provided two thirds of the Senators present concur; and he shall nominate, and by and with the Advice and Consent of the Senate, shall appoint Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls, Judges of the supreme Court, and all other Officers of the United States, whose Appointments are not herein otherwise provided for, and which shall be established by Law: but the Congress may by Law vest the Appointment of such inferior Officers, as they think proper, in the President alone, in the Courts of Law, or in the Heads of Departments.

Clause 3:

The President shall have Power to fill up all Vacancies that may happen during the Recess of the Senate, by granting Commissions which shall expire at the End of their next Session.

Section. 3.

He shall from time to time give to the Congress Information of the State of the Union, and recommend to their Consideration such Measures as he shall judge necessary and expedient; he may, on extraordinary Occasions, convene both Houses, or either of them, and in Case of Disagreement between them, with Respect to the Time of Adjournment, he may adjourn them to such Time as he shall think proper; he shall receive Ambassadors and other public Ministers; he shall take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed, and shall Commission all the Officers of the United States.

Section. 4.

The President, Vice President and all civil Officers of the United States, shall be removed from Office on Impeachment for, and Conviction of, Treason, Bribery, or other high Crimes and Misdemeanors.

423 posted on 12/10/2004 11:27:13 AM PST by michigander (The Constitution only guarantees the right to pursue happiness. You have to catch it yourself.)
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To: mvpel
If that's a common view among leftists,

No it is not!

Off the top on my head

In order to form a more perfect union and to secure these rights, (life liberty and happiness) ....

424 posted on 12/10/2004 11:27:22 AM PST by jpsb
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To: rogerv
I'm sorry. I didn't know where would be the best place to post an introduction. I didn't want to be rude and just start posting opinions without introducing myself.<<<<

WOW! You replied to my first post! Guess you've spent some time catching up on things around here?

Your apology is accepted of course, but don't you think you should begin the serious discussion you alluded to in your introduction?

The natives are getting restless. Welcome to FR.
425 posted on 12/10/2004 11:27:38 AM PST by hushpad
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To: johniegrad; anniegetyourgun; Fierce Allegiance
hi gang, 8.

Surely you jest. I'm with AGYG in being a little short-fused today.

It's a self-espoused liberal, therefore it's a 10.

426 posted on 12/10/2004 11:27:54 AM PST by dansangel (Thank you Veterans past and present!)
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To: dansangel

Don't call me Surely.


427 posted on 12/10/2004 11:29:05 AM PST by johniegrad
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To: shadowman99
Would it kill us to be decent to him?

In all honesty, I doubt that it would kill us to be nice to the guy; however, it could hurt us. Conservative tolerance has been perceived by the left as an open door for radical social reengineering, and that movement has hurt us all. We should not tolerate unlimited tolerance.

428 posted on 12/10/2004 11:29:10 AM PST by PeoplesRepublicOfWashington (Patriotism is patriotic.)
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To: Sprite518

OK, thanks, what is Marxist about that statement?


429 posted on 12/10/2004 11:29:25 AM PST by jpsb
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To: rogerv
Really? You don't have any questions about power and its abuses? I'd be very interested to hear how you have found peace with all that.

This is a conservative forum. You don't think people here have a problem with overbearing government?! Just what do you think a conservative stands for?

430 posted on 12/10/2004 11:29:28 AM PST by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Do NOT buy from junk email.)
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To: rogerv; jriemer; 4mycountry; Zavien Doombringer; MeekOneGOP; MEG33; cavtrooper21; cyborg; ...
OK, rogerv, I'm gonna be taking you at your word on this one, so here's a few things that might help you get around. I'm not sure if you've been able to find all of these yet, so hopefully, this will help out.

This will take you to the main help page. It has information about posting:   http://www.freerepublic.com/help.htm

This will take you to the list of media sources that require we either except their items or post links only. It's updated as needed. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1111944/posts

This is the FR Lexicon thread. It might help you with some of our, em, er, more "colorful" terms. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1111944/posts

This links you to the Admin Moderator home page. Often, helpful links and information is posted there. More often, it's just scary. But it's all in good fun.

http://www.freerepublic.com/~adminmoderator

The keywords on the posts you see help link posts together by common subject matter when used correctly. When used incorrectly, as in the best they are, they provide another, shorthand way to comment. You'll notice both usages.

To see the profile page of each person you speak to, click on their screen name. Even if they haven't set up a profile, the page provides a quick way to find their other comments by clicking "In Forum" on their profile.

If you click "Pings" in the upper part of the screen, you'll see all of the messages directed to, or more likely at, you. It might help you track things.

Now, a word about Viking Kittens, ZOT and Paving. You want to avoid running afoul of any of these. Big time. The good news for all of us is you've already met a ton of Viking Kittens and Members of the RKBA. You've made it so far. Congratulations and Welcome to Free Republic!

431 posted on 12/10/2004 11:29:54 AM PST by timpad (The Wizard Tim - Keeper of the Holy Hand Grenade, Finder of Obscurata)
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To: blackie

The spelling error(s) are rogerv's, not mine. That was a copy and paste of one of his posts.


432 posted on 12/10/2004 11:30:13 AM PST by debg
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To: rogerv
One of the most important things you will find out here is be prepared to support your positions with facts.

It isn't personal. I'm to the right of Attila the Hun. If I make a statement that is questionable, I get called on it.

We all get called to defend our positions.

Those of us on the Right are not ideologues because of indoctrination. We have come to our positions based on reasoning from facts.
433 posted on 12/10/2004 11:30:28 AM PST by TASMANIANRED (Free the Fallujah one)
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To: Protagoras

I figured this thread was less for us and more a troll effort given the total absence of response from the original poster.


434 posted on 12/10/2004 11:30:41 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE!)
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To: Rutles4Ever
Sniff sniff... I'm smelling ozone. He's on a fact-finding mission (probably a nice little hit piece).

I agree with you.

435 posted on 12/10/2004 11:30:42 AM PST by BJungNan (Stop Spam - Do NOT buy from junk email.)
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To: BJungNan

A couple other civil liberties that have been taken away are:

The right to make and/or purchase a toilet that uses more than 1.5 gallons of water. I believe this was Al Gore's contribution to mankind.
The right the right to upgrade the kitchen or bathroom in your home without installing flourescent lighting.

Naturally this is in California where the do-gooders pat themselves on the back for forcing people to "save" water (a renewable resource) and use "green" electricity while ignoring the fact that more water is used due to multiple flushes and most people switch back to incandescent lighting after the inspection....


436 posted on 12/10/2004 11:31:12 AM PST by TMD (Proud member of the VWRC!)
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To: kidd
On the liberal side, Bill Clinton and Al Gore are for the death penalty

They sure are...just ask Ed Willey, Susan Coleman, Jerry Parks, Gandy Baugh, Kathy Ferguson, Ron Brown, Bill Shelton, Paul Wilcher, Parnell Walker, Vince Foster...etc..etc.

437 posted on 12/10/2004 11:31:51 AM PST by Osage Orange (Hillary's heart is as black as the devil's riding boots.................)
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To: rogerv
Here's a good article for you to read... by a pro-gun minority lesbian Democrat conservative (who says conservatives aren't diverse)?

Open Letter to Liberals Favoring Gun Confiscation

438 posted on 12/10/2004 11:32:21 AM PST by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us)
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To: subterfuge

I'm serious about conversing. And I plan on posting here.


439 posted on 12/10/2004 11:32:27 AM PST by rogerv
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To: BJungNan; rogerv
He has to expect a little razing when he walks into the room<<

Absolutely. Listen to this Rogerv. Also expect to be able to take the same thing you dish out. I myself, can be a smart-alec (or smart-alice for the libbers). But if I do get someone mad, I'm big enough to take the confrontation, and humble enough to apologize if needed.

Try and do the same
440 posted on 12/10/2004 11:32:47 AM PST by hushpad
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