Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam...

drstevej (Pope Piel I)

[drstevej]

Exurge, Calvinisti, et judica causam tuam...

Arise (some mss read Swarm), O Calvinists, and plead your cause. The doctrines of grace are mightily assailed by those who would proclaim with their father, “I will be like the Most High.” Set forth the biblical case for a sovereign God who is jealous for His glory. Disallow through disputation (and lampooning when needed) the damnable errors of those who have refashioned the great sola doctrines into a salvation-helper gospel that exalts the fallen will of man.

From every corner, in every thread exalt the right of God to do whatsoever He pleaseth. Be not dismayed by persistent anthropocentric rantings. Blessed are you when they revile you for the sake of the truth. Happy are ye when the Servetus card is played and the strawmen are paraded before you for He who is enthroned in heaven reigns.

– Pope Piel I, Thread Pope

[xzins]

To be serious for a moment (which has been hard the last 24 hours), I'm fully dedicated to being an unadulterated biblical christian.

As such, I am unconvinced by many theologies, although I understand the necessity of using "theologies" to piece the doctrines of the bible together. It seems there are 3 or 4 great theologies in Christianity....Catholic, Arminian, Calvinist being the most publicized.

I am not Catholic because of doctrines that derive from its mariology and its handling of scripture.

I am not Calvinist because it maintains that God shows favoritism, and it undervalues faith and love.

I am not Arminian because it posits a world where real action and consequence is not possible.

I am unfettered, unaligned.

[P-Marlowe]

Gee xzins. Utilizing your formula with my definitions it would appear that I am a full blown 5 pointer:

Total Depravity: (Nobody can possibly open or answer the door until Jesus knocks. Jesus has the key and he won't unlock the door until he knocks)(Rev 3:20)

Unconditional Grace (We don't do anything to deserve the knock on the door)

Limited Attainment of Atonememt (You gotta Answer the door! Only the sins of those who answer the door will be effectvely atoned)

Irresistible Salavation (When the door is opened - poof you're saved)

Preservation of the Saints (Ain't no turning back -- Saved is the past tense of salvation - You are no longer your own, the price has been paid -- Jesus has moved in and you don't have the power to evict him -- and he's already rearranged all the furniture)

So if you get on the list, then I (A full blown five point heretic) am certainly worthy of consideration.

I resubmit my application. I eagerly await my consecration papers.

BTW, Pope Piel, How do you get this fishing line untangled?

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Man never LOST the Ability of Volitional Action in the First Place

I believe grace is necessary for the free will to act to the supernatural good.

If you say man has this ability but does not exercise it because he is depraved, either (1) he already has grace but does not see its attractions (in which case original sin does not equal the loss of the divine life) or (2) man does not have grace and grace is not necessary for action of the free will towards a supernatural good (variant of Pelagianism).

His WILL is not the problem -- his HEART must be Monergistically re-engineered, by deliberate Divine Sovereign Intervention. (in this, his Free Will is not "violated". In fact, his Free Will is not even consulted. God gives Life as He chooses.)

This gets immediately to the heart of "why, then does God not save everyone"? The Calvinist answer is inevitably because God does not love all men (after all, if He loved them He would save them). Their damnation then is God's fault - He refused them the necessary means of life by which they could overcome their inherent depravity. You said it right there in what I quoted above. "In fact, his Free Will is not even consulted. God gives Life as He chooses." So if God does not give someone life, their death is the inevitable consequence of his choice, not the mans.

Yet God died for all men because he loves all men.

St. John 3.16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

1 St. John 2.2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1 St. Timothy 2.4 [God our Saviour] will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
6 Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.

2 St. Peter 3.9 The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance.

Salvation is from God, because man could no more obtain supernatural life by his own means then he could light a fire with a bucket of water. Damnation is from man, because God gave everyone the sufficient means to avoid it if they would.

Deuteronomy 30.19 I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

[xzins]

Dear Pope Steve,

I submit P-Marlowe for your consideration as Senior Observer. His post #342 is clear evidence that he is less Arminian and more Calvinist than I.

He clearly should supplant Revelation 911 who is more Arminian and less Calvinist than I.

While I am no member of the swarm, I know how seriously you take my advice and recommendations.....:>) (rotflol)

[Diamond]

I am not Calvinist because it maintains that God shows favoritism, and it undervalues faith and love.

I became a Calvinist before I knew what Calvinism was, simply by memorizing the first 14 chapters of Romans as a youngster.

¹¹Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad--in order that God's purpose in election might stand: ¹²not by works but by him who calls--she was told, "The older will serve the younger."^{[4] 13}Just as it is written: "Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated."^[5]
14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! ¹⁵For he says to Moses,
   "I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
       and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."^{[6] 16}It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy.

Cordially

[xzins]

I believe we've bumped into each other on some FR venue in the past. Nonetheless, it is not my desire to debate anything today.

Suffice to say that the bible directly says, "God does not show favoritism." That means to me that there must be an interpretation of your verses that ends up someplace other than you have them ending.

[Gamecock]

This really burns me AND I insist on an appeal before the Rules Committee!!

Your appeal is "cute," but is still seen as sniveling by this Swarmer.

(BTW, I am a 6 point Calvinist, so on average his fishiness meets the requirements.)

[xzins]

6 Pointers have an "S" on the end.

Tulips

But I forget what it stands for.

:>)

And I didn't snivel. Not even once did my nasal even begin to drip, nor did I put the slick shiny stuff on my coat sleeve.

[Gamecock]

We burn heratics

[Hermann the Cherusker]

Only if ye plan to raise an Army on behalf of the Presbyters of Iona, to liberate "Greater Scotia" (ye olde Celtic Christian name for "Ireland") for the Reformation, Your Fishiness!!

Liberate?

This way of thinking deserves a barf alert.

[xzins]

Which just might include people I'm familiar with, right??

Now, Gamey.

Remember how Luke brought Darth Vader back from the Dark Side?

You can be redeemed.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

For some it is hard to know one heresy from another

I suppose it is for those like yourself who have passed through multiple theologies in their lifetime.

[P-Marlowe]

We burn heratics

Watch your spelling. Its Hair Addicts.

Here's a group of them ready for incineration:

Stoke the fires boys.

[xzins]

For some it is hard to know one heresy from another I suppose it is for those like yourself who have passed through multiple theologies in their lifetime.

A haven't we all bump

But

Nevertheless, that is a clear ROTFLOL!!

[Revelation 911]

He clearly should supplant Revelation 911 who is more Arminian and less Calvinist than I.

c'mon - I said "God willing" in my response to popiel - should at least get a position of honor akin to "pet arminian we like to keep around 'cause he ticks off mormons"

Im kind a ticked off you'd torpedo my efforts to gain access to the list

But - come to think of it - They're all members of the "C" list now - I remain a member of the "A" list

.....despite your efforts to derail me LOL

[xzins]

I would like to recruit you to the "regurgitatus calvinexit getus outahereamus" list found here

All we need is a really good sob story about how the calvinists rejected you. (veracity of story not required)

X

[Gamecock]

Take it up with my spiritual mentor, Yoda Sproul...

[P-Marlowe]

We burn heratics

Or maybe your meant Hair Ticks. Here's one.

BURN THE HAIR-TICK!! BURN HIM! BURN HIM!

[Gamecock]

***veracity of story not required***



Are you sure you are not an Arminian?

[Gamecock]

heratics=heretics