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To: OrthodoxPresbyterian; drstevej; xzins
Man never LOST the Ability of Volitional Action in the First Place

I believe grace is necessary for the free will to act to the supernatural good.

If you say man has this ability but does not exercise it because he is depraved, either (1) he already has grace but does not see its attractions (in which case original sin does not equal the loss of the divine life) or (2) man does not have grace and grace is not necessary for action of the free will towards a supernatural good (variant of Pelagianism).

His WILL is not the problem -- his HEART must be Monergistically re-engineered, by deliberate Divine Sovereign Intervention. (in this, his Free Will is not "violated". In fact, his Free Will is not even consulted. God gives Life as He chooses.)

This gets immediately to the heart of "why, then does God not save everyone"? The Calvinist answer is inevitably because God does not love all men (after all, if He loved them He would save them). Their damnation then is God's fault - He refused them the necessary means of life by which they could overcome their inherent depravity. You said it right there in what I quoted above. "In fact, his Free Will is not even consulted. God gives Life as He chooses." So if God does not give someone life, their death is the inevitable consequence of his choice, not the mans.

Yet God died for all men because he loves all men.

St. John 3.16 For God so loved the world, as to give his only begotten Son: that whosoever believeth in him may not perish, but may have life everlasting.

1 St. John 2.2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.

1 St. Timothy 2.4 [God our Saviour] will have all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God: and one mediator of God and men, the man Christ Jesus:
6 Who gave himself a redemption for all, a testimony in due times.

2 St. Peter 3.9 The Lord delayeth not his promise, as some imagine, but dealeth patiently for your sake, not willing that any should perish, but that all should return to penance.

Salvation is from God, because man could no more obtain supernatural life by his own means then he could light a fire with a bucket of water. Damnation is from man, because God gave everyone the sufficient means to avoid it if they would.

Deuteronomy 30.19 I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live.

343 posted on 12/12/2003 8:22:27 AM PST by Hermann the Cherusker
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To: Hermann the Cherusker
I believe grace is necessary for the free will to act to the supernatural good.

This is correct. It is precisely Regenerating Grace which is necessary for a man to act to the spiritual good.

Once a man has been monergistically Regenerated, he will then use his ability to act to the spiritual good.

You said it right there in what I quoted above. "In fact, his Free Will is not even consulted. God gives Life as He chooses."

You're actually objecting to that quotation?

Check it, Herm...

I think that's a fairly good authority for my quotation.

420 posted on 12/12/2003 2:06:34 PM PST by OrthodoxPresbyterian
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