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STAR TREK NEMESIS DISCUSSION THREAD (WARNING: SPOILERS)
The movie theatre by my house ^ | December 13, 2002 | Badfreeper

Posted on 12/13/2002 1:04:00 PM PST by badfreeper

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TOPICS: Arts/Photography; Chit/Chat; Hobbies; Miscellaneous; Music/Entertainment; Science; Society; TV/Movies; UFO's
KEYWORDS: berman; data; enterprise; federation; picard; riker; roddenberry; romulans; starfleet; startreknemesis; troi
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All-in-all, a worthwhile chapter in Star Trek saga. Definitely better than Insurrection. There are some bits in the beginning that seem so similar to some plotlines in TNG that I was rolling my eyes and thinking "Not Data's disembodied head again!" The little Romulan fighter ships are way cool, as is the new Federation ATV!

Now for the nit-picking: Given the security situation on Romulus, I don't think that it would have been that simple to seize control of the Romulan government. I mean, where's the Tal Shiar?

Worf at his normal post. Didn't he resign his commission in the finale of DS9 to become Federation ambassador to the Klingon Empire?

Riker with a beard again. Didn't Troi made him shave it off before?

Kate Mulgrew's cameo as Admiral Janeway. Did that seem out of place to anyone other than me? A couple of years ago she was quoting Picard as "one of the greats" and now she's calling him Jean-Luc and making jokes about how tough his missions are?

GOOD THING: Wesley Crusher's part was written out of the movie. You see him at the head table at Riker and Troi's engagement party, but that's about it.

Still having a hard time getting my brain around this though: I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY KILLED DATA!!!!

1 posted on 12/13/2002 1:04:02 PM PST by badfreeper
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To: badfreeper
My God! They've killed Kenny Data!
2 posted on 12/13/2002 1:23:04 PM PST by VRWCmember
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To: badfreeper
I haven't seen it yet, but when I do I'll be able to talk about it futher. From the trailers, it looks like it's a winner. I hope so. There is one question I have and that is how can starfleet entrust yet another starship to someone that has already wrecked one (however justified)? Those things cost quite a few Quatloos. Live long and prosper.
3 posted on 12/13/2002 1:23:51 PM PST by NCC-1701
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To: NCC-1701
Actually, he comes close to wrecking the Enterprise E too. He even tries to activate auto-destruct but the ship is too damaged and the system is offline. You'll see!
4 posted on 12/13/2002 1:30:35 PM PST by badfreeper
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To: badfreeper
Busy this weekend, but we'll see it over Christmas. Priority is to see The Two Towers first...
5 posted on 12/13/2002 1:36:20 PM PST by Corin Stormhands
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To: Corin Stormhands
Yeah, the hype is on. Some of the 12:01 AM shows for this Wednesday here are already sold out.
6 posted on 12/13/2002 1:44:11 PM PST by badfreeper
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To: NCC-1701
Those things cost quite a few Quatloos.

Nope. They're free. Everything in the Federation is free. No one uses money and everyone works for the betterment of mankind. It's a freakin' communist wetdream.

7 posted on 12/13/2002 2:14:22 PM PST by Junior
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To: badfreeper
Janeway an Admiral? She should be beamed into space! At least her dem husband lost his race for a house seat.(in the real world)
8 posted on 12/13/2002 5:48:38 PM PST by Brett66
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To: badfreeper
The short version: Better than Insurrection. Fans will like it, non-fans will likely stay home in droves.

The long version:

Rather a wimpasaurus villain in this one, eh? OK, so he's a French clone with an English accent and a killer case of acid reflux disease, he's got a bad ship, a few pug-ugly henchcritters, and a serious attitude problem from being forced to mine dilithium for 20 years. Big fat hairy deal - if he had a lick of sense in his bald head, he would have simply put it in reverse after being rammed, backed up, then crushed the helpless Enterprise's bridge. Crew dies, you pluck Picard's lifeless body out of the vacuum of space, get the blood you need from the corpse, then proceed to Earth and wipe it out on schedule. No rocket science needed - game over.

And while I'm at it, was I the only one who thought that an "ultimate weapon" that takes 7 minutes to deploy is extremely lame? Must have been tech they stole from the "We are smarrrrrt!" Pakled.

At least Berman didn't have to pay Wil Wheaton (at the head table in the reception scene) outrageous union rates for a speaking part. Allah be praised (although they should have just put a cardboard cutout of Wesley Crusher up there and saved even more money) ...

OK, there was some cool stuff in this movie. The Reman's little Scorpion fighters were just the thing for those nasty traffic jams on the interstate, I'm glad I was sitting down during most of Marina Sirtis' scenes (especially in the white, sheer full-length nightie), and they killed off Data but really didn't in a fairly adept way. The Reman's redshirts are just as lousy shots as any other villain in a Star Trek movie though. And, with 350 years of human progress between the Federation and us, can't they come up with anything better than an ATV (with Bridgestone tires - I recognized the tread pattern) and eyeglasses (EYEGLASSES?) that would have looked at home on Lance Armstrong's brow? And what was this bullcrap about Picard "looking forward" to flying the Argo so much? Its a freaking shuttle with little wings on the side. Yaaaaaaawn. Go fly the Captain's Yacht next time, Jean-Luc - its the only ship we didn't see in the series.

I have a confession to make - I'm such a complete geek about this stuff that I almost screamed the name of the song that Riker couldn't remember Data trying to whistle the first time he met him (it was "Pop Goes the Weasel"). I laughed knowingly at Worf's reaction to being told that he was going to have to get naked at a Betazoid wedding (although he apparently had no trouble getting naked with the bride-to-be in the last Next Generation episode).

But I have to wonder - who did Gates McFadden piss off? The last three movies have featured her smiling wanly and generally just standing around doing nothing. Geez, marry her off and get her off that ship - they've got holographic doctors now anyway.

Anyway, go see the movie if you're a fan. Maybe Patrick Stewart will make enough from this one to get a decent weave.

9 posted on 12/13/2002 9:06:34 PM PST by strela
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To: strela
Maybe Patrick Stewart will make enough from this one to get a decent weave

Stewart is hilarious in interviews. I saw him on The Caroline Rhea Show. She had him reading Hip-hop lyrics. He was a scream.

10 posted on 12/13/2002 11:34:25 PM PST by buccaneer81
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To: strela
Good analysis. I went home disappointed, but that's qualified by the fact that I expected to. It was one of those movies that keeps you waiting for the good part, the sequence worth $8.75, the meat, the climax, the stuff after the lead in, but it never comes, and you're left with an unimpressive final battle, and an ending far too abrupt and empty to conclude an entire series, let alone one movie. The title character was awful, didn't resemble Picard at all, and the picture showing cadet Picard that ugly and already bald left me with a sick feeling. It was strangely disconcerting to see the proud and untouchable Romulans at the 'mercy' of a bald-teenager (I already forget his name). I'm sick of corny superweapons, especially ones that turn their victims into stone. There are so many more imaginative ways to kill people that have never even been explored. Was Before a Soongh creation, and what was up with the the four-wheelers who chased Picard, Data, and Worf? Can't they think of a more inspired name for Riker's command than Titan. When two starships run into each other head on, they don't mangle and interweave; they blow up. I hated to see two ugly butterflies replace the old green double-wing warbirds(the best looking, most intimidating ship in ST). The slow, original-music flybys of the Enterprise were classic. What was the point of the Riker-Reman battle-scene at the end? To fill up time? Predictably and sadly disappointing, but worth seeing.
11 posted on 12/14/2002 12:03:39 AM PST by ForOurFuture
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To: buccaneer81
I heard he loves Beavis and Butthead, also. The actor surely is not as stiff as the character he plays.
12 posted on 12/14/2002 12:06:04 AM PST by ForOurFuture
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To: ForOurFuture
He's also a Gameboy fanatic. And he has a huge fascination with American semi trucks. He gives a fantastic interview.
13 posted on 12/14/2002 12:09:18 AM PST by buccaneer81
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To: strela
Great review! 7 minutes to activate the weapon DOES seem pretty lame. Would have been a really cool scene to see the ship de-cloak fully armed and ready!

Actually, when it came to the ramming thing, I didn't buy how easy it was for the clone to just back up and separate the two ships. I mean, the Enterprise wasn't going full reverse so how did the ships sepatate without the jaws of life? Wouldn't the Enterprise just be pulled along with the Romulan ship?

I wanted to yell out "POP GOES THE WEASEL YOU TWIT!" too!

For a really good look at Marina Sirtis, check out at movie called "The Wicked Lady" starring Faye Dunaway. Horrible movie, but you get to see A LOT more of her than in Star Trek. From the early '80s, IIRC.

FReegards!
14 posted on 12/14/2002 3:51:34 AM PST by badfreeper
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To: buccaneer81
He's got to have a good sense of humour. How else do you explain Jeffrey?
15 posted on 12/14/2002 3:57:00 AM PST by badfreeper
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To: ForOurFuture
You're definitely spot on about the warbirds. The previous ones were much more menacing. I probably would have paid full price to see this movie (CAD$13.50) but I'm glad I went to a weekday matinee, $5 off. Frugality wasn't my only motivation. I figured seeing it during business hours would help me avoid the crowds. It was barely half filled. Also, my bedtime Friday nights is early. I get up at 4 am Saturdays for work.
16 posted on 12/14/2002 4:08:38 AM PST by badfreeper
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To: buccaneer81
Stewart is hilarious in interviews.

I can take him in small, very small doses. I had the misfortune of hearing Stewart speak at a Trek convention in Dallas several years ago. He yammered for two solid hours about the Royal Shakespeare Company and summer stock theater in Bum**** Egypt or somewhere; fascinating stuff if you're in the trade, but a snoozer of a topic for a general audience. I actually walked out after about an hour and haunted the vendor's tables for the rest of the speech. While I stand in awe of his acting abilities and enjoy his work in general, he really was a boring, tedious little man in person. Maybe I was just having a bad day.

Jonathan Frakes was at the same convention; my brother browbeat me into taking a trombone and a brand-new mouthpiece with us to the con and trying to get him to play it. But, true to form, we chickened out at the last minute and didn't do it. Wasn't drunk enough I guess. We did get to have a drink with him after the show though; we caught him sitting at the hotel bar pounding down a club soda, just like folks. My brother got starstruck after a minute or so and just shut up, but Frakes told me about his Lyle Lovett obsession and the fact that Lovett is about all he listens to in his car. I got the impression that there is a "there" there when it comes to Frakes, and I enjoyed talking to him.

17 posted on 12/14/2002 5:21:20 AM PST by strela
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To: ForOurFuture
It was one of those movies that keeps you waiting for the good part, the sequence worth $8.75 ...

You must live in the big city. The 7 PM show was only $7 here. But you're right - there was no "wow" scene.

The title character was awful, didn't resemble Picard at all, and the picture showing cadet Picard that ugly and already bald left me with a sick feeling.

Especially since they established that Picard had hair at the Academy in the series.

It was strangely disconcerting to see the proud and untouchable Romulans at the 'mercy' of a bald-teenager (I already forget his name).

It would be like the Congress and the Supreme Court of the US saying, "OK, we'll declare you the President if you'll just solve this Middle East problem for us." Silly and derivative. Also, it must be tough being a galactic villain when you're leaning over puking your guts out every 15 minutes.

I'm sick of corny superweapons, especially ones that turn their victims into stone.

Kind of like Viagra writ large, eh?

Was Before a Soongh creation, and what was up with the the four-wheelers who chased Picard, Data, and Worf?

While we're on the subject of the esteemed Dr. Often-Wrong Soongh, the hook upon which they hung Data's special status in the series is that he is the unique creation of a genius. Now, we find out that Soongh apparently left factory seconds and experimental models strewn all over the cosmos (Lore, this jamoke, etc.); you can't take two steps without tripping over a Soongh android lying around somewhere. How many times is the franchise going to trot out this old chestnut?

Can't they think of a more inspired name for Riker's command than Titan.

Kinda gives you the mental image of a big flying bar code, eh? If they add an "ic" to the name, maybe they can get Leonardo DiCaprio to do a guest shot on "Riker - The Next Generation."

When two starships run into each other head on, they don't mangle and interweave; they blow up.

Not to mention the hundreds of innocent crewmembers living in the forward sections of the saucer section who Picard condemned to death by turning them into chunky salsa (including, presumably, Guinan; the bar is called "Ten FORWARD"). Also, the rest of the Federation fleet was just waiting somewhere; why do communications always seem to fail just when Picard could have called in some of those laggards to help him out?

I hated to see two ugly butterflies replace the old green double-wing warbirds(the best looking, most intimidating ship in ST).

You know what the new Romulan vessels reminded me of? Watch a movie called "Enemy Mine" some time (came out a few years ago) - they look exactly like a larger version of a Drac fighter.

What was the point of the Riker-Reman battle-scene at the end? To fill up time?

Right in one. And to give Frakes something to do besides boffing Sirtis, I guess.

Predictably and sadly disappointing, but worth seeing.

Agree.

18 posted on 12/14/2002 5:46:23 AM PST by strela
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To: Brett66
Janeway an Admiral? She should be beamed into space! At least her dem husband lost his race for a house seat.(in the real world)

Hey don't knock Kate!! She is one of the few openly Pro-Life people in Hollywood. And I think that her Hubby was running for Gov, not house

19 posted on 12/15/2002 12:26:36 AM PST by Sci Fi Guy
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To: badfreeper
I CAN'T BELIEVE THEY KILLED DATA!!!!

Is Spot okay?

20 posted on 12/15/2002 5:34:50 AM PST by Overtaxed
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