Posted on 03/14/2002 5:07:26 AM PST by HairOfTheDog
This is a continuation of the infamous thread New Zealander Builds Hobbit Hole originally posted on January 26, 2001 by John Farson, who at the time undoubtedly thought he had found a rather obscure article that would elicit a few replies and die out. Without knowing it, he became the founder of the Hobbit Hole. For reasons incomprehensible to some, the thread grew to over 4100 replies. It became the place for hobbits and friends of hobbits to chit chat and share LoTR news and views, hang out, and talk amongst ourselves in the comfort of familiar surroundings.
In keeping with the new posting guidelines, the thread idea is continuing here, as will the Green Dragon Inn, our more structured spin-off thread, as soon as we figure out how to move all the good discussion that has been had there. As for the Hobbit Hole, we will just start fresh, bringing only a few mathoms such as the picture above with us to make it feel like home, and perhaps a walk down memory lane:
Our discussion has been light:
It very well may be that a thread named "New Zealander builds Hobbit hole" will end up being the longest Tolkien thread of them all, with some of the best heartfelt content... Sorry John, but I would have rather it had been one with a more distinguished title!… post 252 - HairOfTheDog
However, I can still celebrate, with quiet dignity, the fact that what started as a laugh about some wacko in New Zealand has mutated and grown into a multifaceted discussion of the art, literature, and philosophy that is Tolkien. And now that I've managed to write the most pompous sentence of my entire life, I agree, Rosie… post 506 - JenB
Hah! I was number 1000!! (Elvish victory dance... wait, no; that would be too flitty) … post 1001 - BibChr
Real men don't have to be afraid of being flitty! Go for it. – post 1011 – HairOfTheDog
Seventeen years to research one mystical object seems a bit excessive… post 1007 - JenB
Okay...who's the wise guy who didn't renew Gandalf's research grant?… post 1024 – Overtaxed
To the very philosophical:
…Judas Iscariot obviously was a good man, or he wouldn't have been chosen to be one of the Apostles. He loved Jesus, like all of the Apostles, but he betrayed him. Yet without his betrayal, the Passion and Crucifixion would never have occurred, and mankind would not have been redeemed. So without his self-destruction infinite good would not have been accomplished. I certainly do not mean this to be irreverant but it seems to me that this describes the character of Gollum, in the scenes so movingly portrayed above… Lucius Cornelius Sulla
To fun but heartfelt debates about the integrity and worth of some of the characters…
…Anyone else notice how Boromir treats the hobbits? He's very fond of them but he seems to think of them as children - ruffling Frodo's hair, calls them all 'little ones'. He likes them, but I don't think he really respects them… post 1536 - JenB
Yes... Tolkien told us not to trust Boromir right off the bat when he began to laugh at Bilbo, until he realized that the Council obviously held this hobbit in high esteem. What a pompous dolt… post 1538 - HairOfTheDog
…I think almost every fault of his can be traced directly back to his blindness to anything spiritual or unseen. He considers the halflings as children, because that is what they look like. He considers the only hope of the ring to be in taking it and using it for a victory in the physical realm. He cannot see what the hobbits are truly made of, he cannot see the unseen hope of what the destruction of the ring might mean--the destruction of Sauron himself, and he cannot see the unseen danger that lies in the use of the ring itself… I just feel sorry for Boromir--he is like a blind but honorable man, trying to take the right path on the road but missing the right path entirely because he simply cannot see it… post 1548 - Penny1
Boromir isn't a jerk, he's a jock… post 2401 – Overtaxed
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Oh, I think by the time Frodo reaches the Cracks, he's not even himself anymore! I think he's not only on the brink of a dangerous place physically, he's on the brink of losing himself completely during the exchange with Gollum. But for some reason, the take-over isn't complete till he actually has to throw the Ring in. The person speaking to Gollum is not Frodo, but the "Wheel of Fire" that Sam sees. After the Ring is destroyed, Frodo not only comes back to himself, but comes back with the unbearable (to him) knowledge of what it's like to be completely without compassion. I think that's why it's so important to him to be compassionate in the Shire… post 2506 - 2Jedismom
…Regarding Frodo's compassion... it's a little too much at the end. Even Merry tells him that he's going to have to quit being so darn nice. But you're right. He's learned a lesson about evil that very few ever learn since it wasn't an external lesson but an internal one. (Those kinds of lessons have the greatest impact) Not only did he totally succumb to it, but he was rather ruthless to my little Smeagol… post 2516 - carton253
Well that Frodo was a big mean bully! (to Smeagol)… post 2519 – Overtaxed
So as you can see, everything JRR Tolkien (and Peter Jackson) is welcome here in our New Row, our soon-to-be familiar New Hobbit Hole…; philosophy, opinion, good talk and frequent silliness.
Hmmm, veddy interesting!
It was a difficult movie to watch, but mainly it was just sad the way the lives of those drag queens had turned out.
As pristine as we are, there's simply no need.
If Gandalf was the wisest of the Maiar, why was Saruman known as the wise...
Well, even if one isn't the wisest one can still be wise. Also, wisdom can come in different forms... Saruman's Elvish name was Curunír, "Man of Craft" (according to "The Istari"). The name "Saruman" meant the same thing, in the language of the Northern Men. It may be that the areas of Saruman's wisdom were more easily demonstrated than the areas of Gandalf's wisdom... also, I think Saruman was a lot less reticent in letting other people know how wise he was; Gandalf tended to hide the extent of his own abilities.
... and why was Saruman the leader of the Istari?
Now that's an interesting question... "The Istari" hints that Saruman may have been more powerful than Gandalf; "power" and "wisdom" are not the same, and being the wisest does not necessarily imply being the most powerful, or vice versa. Or, maybe it was just that Saruman was more eager to lead. Unfinished parts of "The Istari" tell how Olórin (Gandalf) didn't really want to go to Middle Earth, and basically had to be ordered into it, while Curumo (Saruman) volunteered to go. Also, it seems Saruman always wanted to be in charge, while Gandalf didn't: Saruman accepted leadership of the White Council after Gandalf refused Galadriel's nomination. Perhaps a desire to lead, to be in charge, was the flaw in Saruman's character that lead to his downfall?
mmmmmmmmm.... skivvieless...
In answer, I turn your attention to The Fellowship of the Ring, Book II, Chapter VII - "The Mirror of Galadriel"
Galadriel: "I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the Grey, and then mayhap things would have gone otherwise."
Aahh, thanks......"Dad". ;^)
I guess I was just wondering why Saruman seemed to be the leader, since Gandalf appears much more capable. I think Bear may have hit on it when he said that maybe Gandalf didn't desire the leadership position, while Saruman did.
yeah... I am an unsavory character, huh?...
And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the Grey...
Makes me wonder if Saruman's "silver tongue" may have influenced Galadriel's designs. (Minds out of the gutter, folks! This is a pre-emptive warning! lol)
I'd really like to know more about the initial assembly of the council, and Galadriel's part in it. I think this is a good topic for study.
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