Who was the guy just prayed that last prayer?

[Billie Bud]

Black fellow just prayed that amazing emotional prayer. I did not catch his name. Very earnest.

[tired&retired]

My apologies.

I started to reply to you and my reply morphed into a greater narrative. This often happens to me in my early morning prayer time.

🙏

[tired&retired]

🤣🤣🤣

[Elsie]

C’mon man - post both of them!

[Elsie]

Its distinctive feature was the unabashed commitment to the "full gospel" (falsely proclaimed as fulfilling the gospel experience) exhibition of "signs" by publicly encouraging any and all of the Pentecostal/charismatic manifestations in its events.

There is another religion-based organization that, instead of the FULL gospel, it claims to have the RESTORED gospel.

(As well as the FULNESS thereof.)

[Elsie]

[Elsie]

From their website:

“We believe in the baptism in the Holy Spirit, accompanied by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4) from the new birth, and in the nine gifts of the Spirit, listed in 1 Corinthians 12, as now available to believers.”

MAybe they are Mormons?

---

* Omni 1:25: "...exhorting all men to come unto God, the Holy One of Israel, and believe in prophesying, and in revelations, and in the ministering of angels, and in the gift of speaking with tongues, and in the gift of interpreting languages, and in all things which are good; for there is nothing which is good save it comes from the Lord; and that which is evil cometh from the devil."

* Alma 9:21: "Having been visited by the Spirit of God; having conversed with angels, and having been spoken unto by the voice of the Lord; and having the spirit of prophecy, and the spirit of revelation, and also many gifts, the gift of speaking with tongues, and the gift of preaching, and the gift of the Holy Ghost, and the gift of translation;"

* Mormon 9:24: "And these signs shall follow them that believe­­in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick and they shall recover;"

* Moroni 10:15-17: "And again, to another, all kinds of tongues; And again, to another, the interpretation of languages and of divers kinds of tongues. And all these gifts come by the Spirit of Christ; and they come unto every man severally, according as he will."

* DC 46:24-26, March 1831: "And again, it is given to some to speak with tongues; And to another is given the interpretation of tongues. And all these gifts come from God, for the benefit of the children of God."

* Articles of Faith #7, March 1842; Pearl of Great Price;: "We believe in the gift of tongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth.

---

Following are some things Joseph Smith taught about the gift of tongues:

Be not so curious about tongues, do not speak in tongues except there be an interpreter present; the ultimate design of tongues is to speak to foreigners, and if persons are very anxious to display their intelligence, let them speak to such in their own tongues. The gifts of God are all useful in their place, but when they are applied to that which God does not intend, they prove an injury, a snare and a curse instead of a blessing.”

 

(See History of the Church, 5:31–32; from “Gift of the Holy Ghost, an editorial published in Times and Seasons, June 15, 1842, pp. 825–26; Joseph Smith was the editor of the periodical.)

We have also had brethren and sisters who have had the gift of tongues falsely; they would speak in a muttering, unnatural voice, and their bodies be distorted … ; whereas, there is nothing unnatural in the Spirit of God.

 

(See History of the Church, 4:580; punctuation modernized; from “Try the Spirits,” an editorial published in Times and Seasons, Apr. 1, 1842, p. 747; Joseph Smith was the editor of the periodical.)

Speak not in the gift of tongues without understanding it, or without interpretation. The devil can speak in tongues; the adversary will come with his work; he can tempt all classes; can speak in English or Dutch. Let no one speak in tongues unless he interpret, except by the consent of the one who is placed to preside; then he may discern or interpret, or another may.

 

(See History of the Church, 3:392; from a discourse given by Joseph Smith about July 1839 in Commerce, Illinois; reported by Willard Richards.)

All of these quotes, with more from Joseph Smith on the subject, can be found in “Chapter 33: The Spiritual Gifts of Healing, Tongues, Prophecy, and Discerning of Spirits,” Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith, (2007)

[Elsie]

I have the ‘88 book

[Elsie]

I think you mean John.

[Elsie]

...as does the Bible...?

Then just what got 'restored'?

[Elsie]

— circa March 1832

[Revelation] Sample of Pure Language, circa March 1832

A Sample of pure Language given by Joseph the Seer as copied by Br Johnson

Question What is the name of God in pure Language
Answer Awmen.

Q The meaning of the pure word A[w]men
A It is the being which made all things in all its parts.

Q What is the name of the Son of God.
A The Son Awmen.

Q What is the Son Awmen.
A It is the greatest of all the parts of Awmen which is the Godhead the first born.

Q What is man.
A This signifies Sons Awmen. the human family the children of men the greatest parts of Awmen Sons the Son Awmen

Q What are Angels called in pure language.
A Awmen Angls-men

Q What are the meaning of these words.
A Awmen’s Ministerring servants Sanctified who are sent forth from heaven to minister for or to Sons Awmen the greatest part of Awmen Son. Sons Awmen Son Awmen Awmen (7)

[mdmathis6]

Yet in a past conversation...you have mixed Indian Mysticism with Christianity....speaking highly of one particular Indian mystic’s embrace of Christianity with his own unique blend of Hinduism, equating the two as though they were the same as the gospel of Jesus’s death and resurrection on the cross. I can go back in time to reference the postings. Yet I suspect I don’t need to.(Thomas Merton did much the same with his writings on Christianity and Buddhism)

So I don’t think any of us here can even trust what you have to say on the coming judgments. I have no doubt you have had certain experiences....

Jesus or Yeshuah is the name by which all men can be saved...he is God in flesh...and like Collossians 1 says: 15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.”

There is nothing in any other body of thought or religion that can save the soul except the name of Jesus...period...as laid out in Acts in the last half of the 17th chapter. No more blending truths...it is all Jesus Christ!

Sure there are sign markers that can point the way to Christ...Acts 17 makes it clear....but God isn’t “winking” any more at people’s groping in darkness, or their attempts to hide themselves in it, when he has provided the light of the World that is Jesus! Yes...Hebrew Jesus, died on the cross Jesus, God in flesh, and risen Jesus who sits on the spiritual throne of David forever, and...at the right hand of the Father!

[daniel1212]

Figurative and/or allegorical interpretation is not normal.

An interesting subject itself. The scope and depth of human communication is one more aspect (besides a basic sense and worship of the invisible God) of humans which sets them apart from animals. Although the latter can have superior smell, eyesight, etc. as well as chemical communication. they are not known to engage in all the literary genres of mankind (including poetry, science fiction, etc.), and forms of speech, including euphemism, circumlocution, metaphor, allegory, allusion, hyperbole, understatement, idiom, sarcasm, personification, pun, simile, synecdoche, etc. Yet while human communication abounds with this we typically parse communication rather effortlessly within the culture that we live, and within the context (is king) in which such communication takes place.

And the use of figurative speech itself does not necessarily mean that it is not referring to something literal, for the use of allegorical forms are typically or often used in describing literal events, but which are understood in the light of their immediate as well as broader context. If a person from the 1600's could read a sports page of th modern world such as states "Patriots bury Bears," , then he could be perplexed, as would be the case with the use of the myriad of idioms and metaphors which are often used on speech to describe things outside sports in the West today ("big hit," "threw a curveball," "kicked off the event," "pitched an idea" etc.).

And within the Bible, the immediate and broader context - the latter of which includes examining what is taught on a subject elsewhere, and principles behind precepts) then what is ignored by those who are not seeking to know and obey its Truth wherever it may lead. . Consider some of the alleged contradictions set forth by AmericanAtheists.org, such as which thinks that Genesis 32:30 contradicts John 1:18, as if there is only one sense of "seeing God," and that the command to be circumcise (Genesis 17:10) contradicts the statement of Galatians 5:2, which ignores covenantal distinctions.

Likewise, when we read such Johannine statements such as "Behold the Lamb of God," (John 1:29) "My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work" (Jn. 4:24) whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst" (John 4:14) "the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life" (John 6:63) then in the light of the immediate and broader context of Scripture we understand that Jesus was both a literal person, who literally spoke word of Truth, but that He represents the prophesied sacrificial atonement, and that water represents spiritual life, and that receiving/believing/ingesting His words, the gospel, provides spiritual life, and which man therefore is to live by, (Jn. 6:53, 57) these being his "bread." And that "God is love" (1 John 4:8,16) and is also Light (1Jo_1:5) and His spirit is Truth (1 John 5:6). refers to God as a literal being being described according to what He consists of, Love,and Truth, Him being the definition of Love and Truth. All of which is contextually consistent with the use of metaphor by John as well as in Scripture (including that of food).

Then you also have the example of ignoring/neglecting context, of the principle of Scripture interpreting Scripture, by the commentators of the official RC New American Bible (now surpassed with the slightly revised NABRE) and esp. its St. Jospeph study version, which for decades taught such things as that Genesis 2 (Adam and Eve and creation details) and Gn. 3 (the story of the Fall), Gn. 4:1-16 (Cain and Abel), Gn. 6-8 (Noah and the Flood), and Gn. 11:1-9 (Tower of Babel: the footnotes on which state, in part, “an imaginative origin of the diversity of the languages among the various peoples inhabiting the earth”) are “folktales,” using allegory to teach a religious lesson. And that the story of Balaam and the donkey and the angel (Num. 22:1-21; 22:36-38) was a fable, while the records of Gn. (chapters) 37-50 (Joseph), 12-36 (Abraham, Issaac, Jacob), Exodus, Judges 13-16 (Samson) 1Sam. 17 (David and Goliath) and that of the Exodus are stories which are "historical at their core," but overall the author simply used mere "traditions" to teach a religious lesson. TradCaths themselves understandably are critical of such.

All of which overall impugns the literal nature the O.T. historical accounts, and as Scripture interprets Scripture (context), we see that the Holy Spirit refers to such stories as being literal historical events (Adam and Eve: Mt. 19:4; Abraham, Issac, Exodus and Moses: Acts 7; Rm. 4; Heb. 11; Jonah and the fish: Mt. 12:39-41; Balaam and the donkey: 2Pt. 2:15; Jude. 1:1; Rev. 2:14). Indeed “the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtlety” (2Cor. 11:3; Rev. 12:9), and if such an account as that of Jonah and the whale is rejected as literally true, then so can the resurrection which the Lord likened to the story of Jonah: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. (Matthew 12:40) And Israel's history is always and inclusively treated as literal.

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. (James 3:17)

In contrast to seeking to honestly, objectively understand Scripture in order to best obey God, are those who make Scripture their servant in order to support their source of security (man or church) or their own chosen elitist delusions, whether esoterical and via or corrupt argumentation.

And when you see such statements as "The Bible is very accurate. Just not understood as people worship Jesus rather than following His teachings, which the esoteric guru teaches as meaning that, "God is consciousness," "I define God as any level of consciousness that exists above the level I am currently at,"
and that "The Holy Spirit is Higher Consciousness,"
and defines being “born again” as meaning "raising your consciousness frequency through prayer and meditation to levels where you perceive directly with your consciousness beyond your physical body..."
with "expansion of consciousness, way beyond the human physical body. It begins with “Transcendence” which is what Jesus, Buddha, Krishna, and all religions are teaching,"
and the author's own experience in his own development process of awakening being why Jesus, Buddha, and Krishna taught what they did,"
and with the “lifted or raised up” that Jesus spoke of meaning raising your brain wave frequency above 40 Hz,
and "My Father and I are One” being defined as "Your soul actually expands to where the entire earth exists within you,"
and that the different religions "are all correct from a different perspectives," and "My Father’s Mansion has many rooms, each existing at a different frequency of consciousness," and the Holy Spirit cleansing a women's soul for 3 weeks before she was pure enough to be in the Light of Heaven -

then anyone should be able to see that the professor of this is dishonestly employing the word of God in order to provide some validation for his occultic experiences, and that spirit behind this is not of God, nor where the actual miracles of the Egyptian magicians, nor will those be by when "there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. "(Matthew 24:24)

The deceiving spirit of the professor at issue has been tried by Scripture, which quite obviously manifests that it is not of God.

[21twelve]

No apologies necessary. I read your entire post and will pray on it. I too have seen remarkable changes in people when they let Jesus into their lives. Not as graphic accounts of the miracles you have witnessed - but miracles none-the-less.

[21twelve]

Interesting - ol’ Joe seems like he was mostly accurate on the speaking of tongues. (I guess he couldn’t do it - or it would have been mandatory.)

I think he is wrong though that it is only to be used to speak to foreigners. It is a form of communicating and worshiping God. And if others are present - someone needs to be able to interpret these spiritual words.

Hmm - it would seem that most people with the gift of tongues would be doing it in private, but I never hear about that. That would make sense though.

[Fledermaus]

Nah, it was fantastic. Just like being in a black church in the South.

[Fledermaus]

I wish he went last.

[Elsie]

... it would seem that most people with the gift of tongues would be doing it in private, but I never hear about that. That would make sense though.

Well; it IS biblical...

1 Corinthians 14:2
For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to people but to God. Indeed, no one understands them; they utter mysteries by the Spirit.

Not even 'interpreters'!

[Jamestown1630]

For anyone who is interested, Pastor Sewell has been all over the place today, with statements about Budde’s performance, which he has called ‘theology malpractice’:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9KCuozDyMw