Who was the guy just prayed that last prayer?

Black fellow just prayed that amazing emotional prayer. I did not catch his name. Very earnest.

Early in this journey I attended a Christian Businessman’s Association Meeting with an evangelist speaking to about 80 people. These successful, educated attendees swallowed it hook line and sinker. They spoke in tongues and were drunk with the Spirit. Except, there was no Holy Spirit present.

To tired&retired (henceforth, shortening this to T&R), I believe you are quite incorrect in this statement, and have done the Christian Business Men's Connection (click here) a grave injustice, and should apologize and visibly retract what you have written about CBMC on this forum.

I have been closely associated with CBMC since 1990, am familiar with the administration, have gone to and led many weekly breakfast Bible studies as well as organizing and attending many outreach dinners with business leaders that were invited to speak of their beliefs and results.

In all of this, I have heard not one smidgen of charismatic or Pentecostal manifestations; only featuring the influence of the Biblical Christ and His Written Word on the personal and business conduct of the participants. Nor have I ever heard of such events elsewhere or anytime in the past of this organization, which was founded in 1931 in Chicago, IL, and has spread globally to the redounding and glory of the God of Heaven.

I'm calling you out on this, but in a FRiendly way. You are wrong and have a spiritual debt to CBMC.

Conversely, it may be that betimes of your (hazy?) past experiences, you may have been invited to a local weekly meeting of, or more likely one of the recruiting dinners of, the Full Gospel Business Men's Fellowship International (FGBMFI) (click here) which abides unreliably in your memory.

In my past, I also have had a brush with this organization, have gone to a few local meetings in the 1970s, and received their magazine.

This operation was founded in 1952 in California, under the lifelong leadership of Demos Shakarian, which also has expanded globally. Its distinctive feature was the unabashed commitment to the "full gospel" (falsely proclaimed as fulfilling the gospel experience) exhibition of "signs" by publicly encouraging any and all of the Pentecostal/charismatic manifestations in its events.

Your observations of their conduct may be correct, but your opinions of it might not be, so you owe them an apology for attributing to them that their goals were more subject regarding intent to deceive, rather than objective, which would be to allude to the active Presence of Christ's Spirit among them through the "signs": speaking in tongues; a word of wisdom; healing; abnormal physical strength; revealing of secrets of the heart, etc.

Let's see if you can admit and revise what you have written in Post #23.

~~~~~~~~

As a footnote, let me also say that i was a very active member of another of the para-church non-Catholic organizations--the Gideons International--for ten years, an group that sought to recruit openly professing Christian church-member men across a broad evangelical Protestant local or denominational assemblies for the purpose of financing and distributing Bibles; and that included those admitting of charismatic conduct.

However, none of the Pentecostal extra-biblical charismatic manifestations, ones that were not favored by the more traditional faiths, were displayed. I never saw a demonstration of that kind of speech or action in any of the activities of the Gideons.

Thank you for your information and correction. I’m pretty sure it was the Full Gospel Businessmen’s Fellowship that my dad was involved with. That name sounds real familiar (I was off to college and then in another state for work after that).

From their website:

“We believe in the baptism in the Holy Spirit, accompanied by the initial physical sign of speaking with other tongues as the Spirit of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4) from the new birth, and in the nine gifts of the Spirit, listed in 1 Corinthians 12, as now available to believers.”

So speaking in tongues is huge for them. From this short statement it isn’t clear if the gifts of tongues is for just a short time to confirm baptism in the Spirit or if it is a long-term gift.

My mom said dad grew up Pentecostal with the old tent revival meetings. My grandmother was very sickly, and my mom thinks she went in hopes of being healed. And then when my dad got Leukemia, he perhaps looked for healing at Pentecostal meetings.

I recall him telling me the scripture about how by Jesus’s stripes (scars) we ARE healed. I don’t recall him talking about it in-depth, just in relationship to his Leukemia. So I’m not sure he understood, or at least didn’t tell me in a way that I understood it to mean are spiritual brokenness IS healed.

Although his Leukemia DID go into remission and he had many happy years with my mom, until he died after a brief illness. And he died in 1988. I still have (somewhere) his underlined and notated book that he gave me. “88 Reasons Why the Rapture will Happen in 1988.”)

Regardless of what one’s beliefs are on Jesus’s return - we all will meet him and need to be ready.

I truly believe that my old man was ready. I can see him at the Pearly Gates. “Well, at least I was right about the 1988 part!”

(I couldn’t find anything about the FGBF and the 1988 rapture, or my dad’s name associated with them But that was all pre-internet).

There is a difference btwn someone who makes themselves subject to a supreme standards for belief and practice, using common means of interpretation (unlike atheists typically example) versus one who uses the Bible in order to support whatever elite esoterical gurus think experiences, or claims. See post above.

Most correct, and it can be easily seen. The Romanists rely on this for their power over insidious ignorance.

As you here note, there are mainly only two ways to institute the use of Scripture quotations, which devolves on figures of speech and methods of interpretation.

The false interpretation employs an allegorical mode of implementation. Quoting from the scholar who discipled me:

From HERE'S HOW! The Bible Can Make Sense to You Todau" (click here):
Figurative and/or allegorical interpretation is not normal.
It takes both literal and figurative language and lays out a meaning (metaphorical, symbolical, or figurative) upon what is said or written. It is not normal to read into a (written communication) any other meaning than what it says. So it is with the Bible. The normal interpretation is a plain literal or obvious interpretation.
Problems arise when something other than what is written is read into it or when there is a departure from plain literal language. < impossible.
The Bible is a love letter from God to man. He wants His children to understand what He means.

The citatons from tired&retied that were in your Post #77 are just filled to the brim with such drivel that one cannot argue with, because they have no reference to solid thinking or provable events with consequences one can measure. Leaving this, in contrast, this guidebook for understanding the Bible goes on to discuss normal, verifiable truth of a Scripture passage. Of such a segment, there is:

Only One Primary Interpretation (not two, or a half-dozen, or a hundred)
Scripture has but one meaning. There is only one primary interpretation to which all context lends itself. It applies directly to those addressed, at ome specific time indicated, ans must have a specific meaning for them.
in the light of this it can be applied to us under similar conditions which exist relative to those conditions prevailing in the context.
There may be several secondary applications but there is only one interpretation -- one specific, intended meaning (Ex. 15:26).
One Single Sense
Every statement of Scripture has only one sense (compare Isa. 55 with 1 Pet. 2:24).
"When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense" (Dr. David L. Cooper).
"The grammatical sense in (Karl A. G.) Keil's understanding, is the simple, direct, plain, ordinary,and literal sense of the phrases, clauses, and sentence" (Walter C. Kaiser, Jr.).
"Thou shalt understand, therefore, that the Scripture hath but one sense, which is the literal sense. And that literal sense is the root and ground of all, and the anchor that never faileth, whereuntoif thou ceave thou canst never err nor go out of the way. And if thou leave the literal sense, thou canst not but go out of the way" (Tyndale).

Now, daniel1212,let me say that literal interpretation contains both plain-literal language and figurative-literal language,
Many people fail to distinguish between the terms, literal language vs. Literal interpretation. They confuse the two, which leads to disagreements.

But the meaning of Bible Scriptures throughout are expressed in terms that make a literal, verbal, grammatical, contextual, cultural, historical, interpretation necessary.

Of particular note, there is another mode which writers can use, and that is reliance on allegorical illustations of a concept or principle. From Wikipedia:

As a literary device or artistic form, an allegory is a narrative or visual representation in which a character, place, or event can be interpreted to represent a meaning with moral or political significance. Authors have used allegory throughout history in all forms of art to illustrate or convey complex ideas and concepts in ways that are comprehensible or striking to its viewers, readers, or listeners.

This kind of representation is one which the Spirit-inspired Scriptures rarely use; but when it does, the allegory is clearly explained, and has but one meaning( Gal. 4:22-26). Sadly, the roots of the Gentile Roman Catholic theology arising from the Platonic allegorical style of interpretation entered the schools at Alexandria, and corrupted the way of interpreting or applying Scripture passages. When they really did not understand the meaning of Scriptures whose meaning was novel and elusive to a Gentile, to cover their tracks and appear wise they resorted to the flexible scheme of using allegory to create an uninspired interpretation rather than to honestly just say,"I don't know." Doing this permited innumerable ways of explaining the meaning of the Bible stories, which ways are undebatable, because they are figments of one's imagination. To endorse any of them and fix then as dogma of their popes and their "Catechism," not the Scriptures as the sole authority of their religion, makes agreement through debates on Scriptures alone impossible and unattainable.

However, as you pointed out to Jamestown1630, where therules of a literal hermeneutic are agreed upon and followed, the one way commanded by Christ, the non- or anti-Catholic spiritual elders come into a pretty universal common understanding of how to surely find the well-defined and profusely taught mental state (Rom. 4:20-21; John 3:16) way for one to obtain forgiveness of sins, be imputed the righteousness of God's Own Son, and enter the unceasing, never-ending life that stays OSAS on the path to Glory.

One of the common results of this present situation is to find blatherers like tired&retired whose false insubstantial ungodly speculationds are from the moment they are voiced are blown away as the chaff was (Ps. 1:4, a metaphor), an expression presented to the reader in literally interpreted figurative-literal language that cannot be misinterpreted.

There is no reason for me to read past the first samples of his musings, so I say to myself and to you, "No more, and no profitless argumentation about them." Apparently people trapped in their own glue can'tfigure our how to escape, they justspew out some more when provoked. No point in getting involved after the fiest couple of warnings, eh? (Titus 3:9-11 AV):

⁹But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.
¹⁰A man that is an heretick after the first and second admonition reject;
¹¹Knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself.

So be it. Selah.

There is an underlying theme that you bring out in your wonderful narrative. I say wonderful as it is a self reflective examination of facts seeking greater understanding. That is the path in life that facilitates soul growth, i.e better understanding of the greater reality.

The underlying theme is that people cling to their beliefs and seek to apply them to their reality, rather than seeking to understand reality and adjust the beliefs to fit with the greater understanding.

I stopped doing hypnosis many years ago when I realized how easy it was to reprogram a person’s emotional subconscious and thus alter their personality.

In a single session I did with a forty year old man who had beaten his wife multiple times to the point of hospitalization, I found the cause of his deep seated anger from childhood and resolved it.

His wife came to me as she wanted to know why she was addicted to her abusive husband and took him back after his fourth prison sentence for beating her.

Knowing that a relationship dance can cause unhealthy behavior patterns to return again, I needed to show her that there was a profound change in him from his session with me.

So while he was in a deep hypnotic trance, I reprogrammed his subconscious with a post hypnotic suggestion that the number “6” would not exist to his reality until I snapped my fingers twice.

Several hours later I had the two of them in my office and I asked him to count from 1 to 10. He did and skipped the number ‘6’. I asked him to count from 10 down to 1, and again he skipped the number ‘6’.

I then asked him how much is “3+3”, and he was totally silent and couldn’t answer as the number “6” did not exist to him.

I asked her how old he was when he learned to count to ten, and she replied, “about 3 years old.”

Using that as proof to how easy it was to change his grasp of reality relating to the existence of the number “6”, I explained how I reprogrammed his subconscious and removed his deep seated anger that caused him to beat her.

When she understood, I snapped my fingers twice and the number “6” came back into his reality instantly.

His violent behavior was gone and he no longer beat her, but knowing I needed to help her too as she had a reason she was attracted toward this violent man, I did a session with her.

As soon as I began, the face of a gargoyle came out of her and started growling at me. The woman was absolutely beautiful, having a perfect figure, blond hair and blue eyes. This gargoyle was trying to scare me away by distorting her facial features and growling at me.

Removing the demon was easy, but healing the wound in her soul that opened the door for the demon to enter was a bit more complicated. The demon told me that he was in her uncle and moved into her when the uncle molested her when she was four years old.

We had to heal the childhood trauma and forgive her uncle to close the door and keep the demon from re-entering her. It worked.

Thus, the happy ending was that their relationship was healed and they now had a healthy environment for their three children.

I share this, not to brag or elevate myself, as it scared me. This event happened thirty years ago and it changed me. It was so easy to reprogram this man’s emotional subconscious beliefs and I was essentially playing God. That is something I didn’t want to do. The power was too great and the potential of creating severe damage was too great.

That was when I stopped using hypnosis.

I share this as religious beliefs are also subconscious programming of a person’s soul and becomes instrumental in how they perceive their reality.

I replaced hypnosis with prayer. That way God was doing everything and I totally surrendered to Him. If I asked, and nothing happened, it was OK, as God was making the decision, not me. The number of miracles that happened surprised me, and I had to resist the temptation to take credit for them.

I quickly realized that if I took credit for the successes, I would also need to take credit for the perceived failures, and that burden is too great to carry. Thus, I am only a servant.

Through this, I learned to interpret what I was perceiving as God did the work. These stored memories of past perceived traumas were physical objects stored as memories in the person’s soul, around their physical body. Just as Jesus knew the life history of the woman at the well, with Jesus in me I knew a person’s life history without them saying anything. I perceived the sins in their soul as dark clouds attached to the stored memories that blocked the Light from shining in their soul.

Many times, Jesus healed people by saying, “You are forgiven.” He was removing these dark clouds attached to wounds in people’s souls.

What I describe is real and physical, not just theoretical. I directly observe and perceive the stored memories holding the traumas, and know when they are healed.

Thus, much of my understanding of scripture comes from the same Holy Spirit that is in me when I am His tool for healing, explaining how the scripture teaches how and why God does what He does.

I stopped doing the work for the interim, as darkness is upon the earth and the Matthew 13 weeds are here right now in full force. God outright told me that “It is not time yet.” But soon. Everything is unfolding exactly as it is supposed to as God is in total control. We just need to keep reading the Bible, and inviting His Holy Spirit into us as our teacher to help us understand.

I share on FR as I am anonymous. My goal is not to have a following, as that would not help me or them. My only goal is to share in hopes that people go within themselves and find their own connection to God. It is real and experiential, available to everyone. In Prayer, invite the Holy Spirit into you daily, or multiple times per day. It will teach you and guide you home to your Father in Heaven.

I don’t judge people, or where they are at on their path. I usually know where they are at just by being around them. We are truly One. When you are filled with Jesus, you are connected to everyone that exists within Jesus. That is the entire earth. It’s a shame that people are not aware of this as they are asleep and cannot perceive Him.

I Pray that some people understand what I am saying and why I am sharing this. It is not to elevate myself, but to help other’s grow in their own experience with God.

I welcome all prayers for me. If I were coming from a spirit of darkness would I welcome the Light of your prayers? I offer prayers in return.

🙏🙏🙏

I recall him telling me the scripture about how by Jesus’s stripes (scars) we ARE healed.

That, of course, is a faulty misleading interpretation and misapplication of the Scriptural precept. Peer quoted from Isaiah what these stripes from flogging were about. Here are citations concerning the purpose of His wounds (bolding added below for emphasis):

Isaiah 53:5 (AV):
But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed.
The punishment earned by my sinful acts were inflicted on Jesus' body, not mine that was healing of the spirit, not one's body, and for each person, the restoration of soul once at the moment of salvation was the healing that one receives. Once. 1 Peter 2:24 (AV):
Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
Romans 6:6 (AV):
Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.

This is not about healing of the beseecher's earthly body, the "healing" refers to the rescue from the power and penalty ofsin now. and escape from the presence of sin when our soul and spirit are separated from this old temporal body when it dies. While some miracles were performed before the New Testament books were inscripturated, the purpose of those miracles were ti visibly validate a person's claim to apostleship.

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