You think we'd know better by now.
Posted on 12/30/2024 7:37:45 AM PST by Lazamataz
I've noticed, as of late, the quality of the arguments on Free Republic have declined. This is especially true as regards the H1B argument.
I have no intention of rehashing this argument, nor the points therein. I am speaking only to the tone and tenor of our forum participants.
Musk did us no favors by being so confrontational about this issue, and may have inadvertently sparked the furor. I fault him for that. I see he's trying to cool this down now, and that is to his credit.
However, it is my belief that the Deep State saw an opening and drove a wedge into it, to separate people on different sides of the argument, who normally would be backing Trump.
As I wrote elsewhere:
It's kinda amazing that the Deep State can ring a bell and we salivate like a Pavlovian dog.
You think we'd know better by now.
That point aside, repeatedly, I'm seeing a lot of posters lately are being rather personal as opposed to arguing the merits of their case. That behavior sheds a lot more heat than light.
It’s as if attorneys were to argue in court:
Atty 1: “Where’d you get your law degree, you fat loser? A crackerjack box? Your client is GUILTY and you are a blind FREAK if you can’t see that!”
Atty 2: “Oh, talk about blind! I understand you are a faggot in your personal life, too! Do you molest boys, you creep? YOU should be the one on trial!”
Judge: “Gentlemen, can we return to the facts of th...”
Atty 1: “Oh just shut the eff up, judge, and play with yourself under your robe, like you always do.”
Atty 2: “Yeah, shut up, you twatwaffle! I never liked you, now I know why!”
In short, I hope that people can dial things down a notch and present their cases with a lot less invective.
I myself have been guilty over the years of being nothing less than an online terrorist, but I do now see the errors of that path, especially here, where we are all one big family.
This is an important issue and we need to discuss it. I suggest we at least wait until our President is inaugurated, or, if it is important to discuss now, that we do so with a lot less invective. We are not Democrat Underground.
“Elon and Vivek said their piece, and were rebuked.
They lack the perspective of the natural Born citizen.”
BTT
“This topic won’t go away . Not after the Smarmy comments by Musk and Vivek.”
And the topic shouldn’t go away. But you have to admit and realize... that right now, this topic (which has been in place/force since 1990), is not THE most crucial issue we have to deal with. The radical left has seen to that via their open borders BS. This topic will be dealt with via much needed reforms. Let’s not get distracted (or let the left distract us) from the main issue, which is national security and closing the border.
I haven’t watched this Aint Nobody Got Time for That video in quite a few years but it made enough of an impression that I recognized the use of those monkeys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFEoMO0pc7k
Nor should it.
But as I tell my gf, "One thousand things at a time."
Let's deal with the biggest issues first. My list is:
Get rid of the fake 'spending caps' so Trump can put through some tax cuts that will both revitalize the economy, and put a huge dent in our deficit.
Round up the millions of illegals and deport them (or at least chase them to blue states).
Reinstall the removal of the many regulations that Biden put back into place, to allow for a vibrant economy.
Find ways to dismiss hundreds of thousands of unnecessary government employees, many who make up the Deep State.
Rebuild the wall.
Get me those five things done, and I'd be glad to deal with the (definitely real) problem of H1B abuse.
There were quite a few folks (self included) who showed the DATA and abuses to back our claims. It appears both Elon and Vivek have responded to that data with clarifications on their positions and solutions on how to significantly reform H1B from being abused, as we all know it is. (I personally have watched the hollowing-out of American Tech workers in Financial Services for over 20 years now. I know from where I speak.)
The point I'm making is this: DATA SPEAKS, emotional rhetoric doesn't. Elon and Vivek have data and logical arguments / conclusions driven by that data.
I don't expect they're going to stick with their original position and language going forward.
We should give this more time and more thoughtful debate.
Remember: Debate is GOOD. The other side demands conformity with a single position. We do NOT want to be like the other side. (That's why we won in a landslide, folks.)
Musk made some incredible mistakes. It lends credence to the theory that he is on the Autism spectrum.
I’m gratified to see that the pushback is causing him to back away from his previous (and rather vile) comments.
This is feedback he heard time and again. As did Vivek. I'm guessing they got same from President Trump given how they've both toned down.
Apparently Laz has forgotten the Cruz-Rubio-Trump wars of 2015.
“I’ve stayed out of it, except for a couple of “wait and see” comments.”
All you can do is attempt to bring reason to those unwilling to be reasonable. We know what the left’s intentions are. We know they have hired and paid “influencers” (nice name for it) to infiltrate comments sections and conservative forums and sites. The logical reaction on our side should be to observe what those “influencers” are saying and understand why they’re saying it... and not overreact, which would be giving them what they want.
Anyone who forgot the Cruz-Rubio-Trump wars is a silly little faggot jerkwad who needs to be slowly waterboarded to death like the effed up clown-ass punk that they are.
Musk actively called for DOUBLING the H1B invasion and I feel no need to bow and scrape to him or any other manners police.
Trump’s entire campaign was about reducing immigration and putting Americans first, he cannot back down from that promise and not lose a lot of support.
I think you're right. Musk is smart but he is not omniscient. The marker for intelligence, to me, is the ability to adjust based on new information.
Twatwaffle... I vow to use this word in conversation today.
“Thus, this very thread.”
So noble.... if the commenters you have a problem with were good looking youn women would you declare them “Not guilty?”
Absolutely, that character alone makes it worth watching the movie!
And yes. I wish we could discuss things that are contentious. Like H-1Bs. And Ukraine.
I learn a lot from discussion, sometimes enough to change my views. It is why I come here.
One, Musk and Vivek have gotten a whole lot of education lately. Their rhetoric has changed. Let us see how this plays out.
And two, if you cannot be civil when making your arguments -- and if you stand proudly in that incivility -- there's another forum (also conservative) where invective and name-calling is more appreciated. It is called Patriots.Win.
Of course I would! And I would tell everyone "I'd hit that."
But let me ask you a question: Why do you feel the need to make this personal?
It is a good word. 😁
FR has lost most of its shine and snap. No doubt about it.
Also, mods have totally given up on enforcement of the no profanity rule. It’s mostly joyless and angry now, with no shortage of stupidity.
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