| Transcript |
| · | What is Çatalhöyük? |
| 0:03 | · | chattar is an enormous archaeological site in Turkey uh in Middle sort of |
| 0:10 | · | South turkey and what's called the cona plain uh not far from the town Big Town |
| 0:16 | · | of of Kana uh it's probably one of the most important archaeological sites in |
| 0:22 | · | the world and when people talk about archaeological sites in Turkey they |
| 0:27 | · | think first and foremost of geke um but uh chleh is important for another |
| 0:34 | · | reason uh in in in chutle Hook we get to focus on on people what people we're up |
| 0:39 | · | to the focus at G has been so much about um uh uh temples and uh the origins of |
| 0:48 | · | civilization and uh and that kind of thing but uh chattle ho not so much |
| 0:54 | · | temples houses agewise it's about 9 and a half thousand years ago |
| 1:02 | · | um and people were living there for about 1500 years uh which in itself is quite uh |
| 1:09 | · | remarkable settled in what was originally those Meandering uh River |
| 1:15 | · | delta these plots of land Islands poking up out of the water so clearly they |
| 1:21 | · | chose the biggest one to settle on we suppose in terms of it being um uh |
| 1:26 | · | important from its size um um because it stands out for that reason as well you |
| 1:32 | · | don't get uh settlements the size of of chatt O from a long time uh after the |
| 1:40 | · | time it uh it fell out of disuse and people moved away from it you know I |
| 1:47 | · | know we've said it more than once at different places but it's when you look at the density of this and you think |
| 1:54 | · | that this is only a small part of what they've excavated you know there's the other Mound over the other side |
| 2:00 | · | and it is only 5% you know what they've done is only 5% of the whole site you look at the density of that you can just |
| 2:06 | · | get a sense quite how many thousands of people there were so it stands alone as |
| 2:12 | · | far as we know uh at this time period which is what roughly |
| 2:18 | · | 7,500 uh BC to 6,000 BC or thereabouts |
| 2:24 | · | yes how long have the excavations been going on well originally uh James melet started a very long time ago it was |
| 2:31 | · | taken over by in Hodder who was running the place uh over 25 years ago he was |
| 2:37 | · | know he was actually excav head of excavations there for over 25 years I think uh so that's going to be over 30 |
| 2:45 | · | years ago now um and uh it's it's remarkable |
| 2:51 | · | really when you consider the depth of it the tail is 21 M deep tails are pretty |
| 2:59 | · | common things when we talk about middle and near East and and even when we get |
| 3:04 | · | over into Greece and the Balkans but Tails as they're called arise when you |
| 3:11 | · | get communities simply put they building uh building upon building upon building |
| 3:18 | · | in the same way that we do now we know that if we Dig Down uh just take any average Town dig down and there's |
| 3:24 | · | there's old Pavements and houses under your feet they're living in their houses and then they come to a it seems they |
| 3:31 | · | come to a period where they uh go past their you cell by date if you like and |
| 3:39 | · | instead of moving to somewhere else um they maybe raise to the ground or use |
| 3:45 | · | the original foundations to to build on again or sometimes they don't raise to the ground and |
| 3:51 | · | so it it takes an appreciation of uh the lengths of time involved but over time |
| 3:59 | · | you get HS building up into these Mounds U which are pure archaeological |
| 4:07 | · | Delight because a tale tells you a story Chad hoyuk is many layers it's about 18 |
| 4:14 | · | layers of houses that they've uh identified and uh we're digging down |
| 4:19 | · | through 1,500 years of archaeology um uh |
| 4:25 | · | it through not just through the depth of the site but as far as as they can through the breadth of the site as well |
| 4:32 | · | which is why it's taken them so long to dig down that depth in such small uh |
| 4:40 | · | localized areas people wonder why it takes so long to excavate these places but that's why going down that depth |
| 4:47 | · | it's immense in if you had to go down uh into |
| · | What were the houses like inside? |
| 4:56 | · | one of the houses in chatle hoek um I don't know what it would remind you of |
| 5:03 | · | because I mean the sense would be of being a little bit Subterranean the actual functions of houses is really |
| 5:08 | · | interesting because people the houses themselves will access through the roof and you descend some wooden ladders and |
| 5:16 | · | round about your feet you'd have to narrowly avoid the oven um maybe |
| 5:21 | · | narrowly avoid an open open fire it sounds like they'd be open to the elements but um but actually the the top |
| 5:29 | · | is thought to have had a sort of porch a cover and you wouldn't be too far away as you put your feet down to perhaps |
| 5:36 | · | where um uh relatives may be buried under the under the floor there in the |
| 5:43 | · | northern part of this room and then maybe back towards the southern end of |
| 5:48 | · | the room as you turn around be more the domestic uh living area and maybe after one side there'd be another room for |
| 5:55 | · | storage and that kind of thing the houses seem seem to have been |
| 6:01 | · | compartmentalized I think that's the best way of putting it that uh that they seem to be more decorated in the north |
| 6:08 | · | side of the house even though the houses are small uh the north was decorated burials were in the north so the so |
| 6:15 | · | there there was this demarcation of perhaps something more special on the North side for whatever reason and the |
| 6:23 | · | South Side more lived in if you're lucky and you going to um uh |
| 6:30 | · | a particular house you may be treated to extraordinary uh murals as well |
| 6:36 | · | intriguing that some houses were very decorated others weren't particularly decorated and it's impossible to |
| 6:44 | · | say because we don't know whether it was a hierarchical system or an egalitarian |
| 6:51 | · | system it's broadly thought that it was egalitarian but because we don't know for sure and there are no |
| 6:59 | · | patterns in whether uh a more elaborate building a more decorated building was |
| 7:06 | · | more special than any other it could have been that it was just Personal Taste because they took care took great |
| 7:13 | · | care of um the walls certainly around the North End of the houses they were tended to be painted white or as near |
| 7:21 | · | White as as possible and decorated with imagery in red ochre there seems to have |
| 7:29 | · | been a Shrine of some sort in the corner of each uh each building uh sometimes |
| 7:35 | · | they were marked out by you may have seen photographs of these um orox skulls |
| 7:42 | · | or bull skulls with these massive uh antlers U marking off a corner of the |
| 7:48 | · | building it's thought that this was a shrine um although that's not certain so |
| 7:53 | · | the imagery is is is quite striking inside this is quite interesting now |
| 8:01 | · | what's the context cuz this is a replica they actually excavated this here obviously |
| 8:07 | · | it's in the museum in Anor now but they excavated this whole freeze so this is an accurate reproduction |
| 8:16 | · | of people doing stuff people hunting people dancing people all |
| 8:22 | · | sorts but but this guy with is it a net or is it a panel of some description in |
| 8:28 | · | front of what the is that it's a pig I guess |
| 8:35 | · | pig looks like this dude's got |
| 8:43 | · | Boomerang few of them course maybe how light how dark it would be in there how |
| 8:49 | · | it would be lit I I don't know how much light descends into these parts and how |
| 8:55 | · | many how much time people would actually spend living in these rooms for that very reason um would you be living on |
| 9:02 | · | the roof most of the time spending most of your time sort of semi Out outdoors on the roof would most of your |
| 9:08 | · | activities be taking place on the roof um uh I don't know um I remember we |
| 9:17 | · | descended down some proper stairs into the uh reproduction uh room at the visitor |
| 9:24 | · | center at chattle ho and I think our breaths were pretty much taken away we we so uh Liz our um fixer as she |
| 9:32 | · | descended the stairs she she said uh I want to live here wow I want to live |
| 9:40 | · | here I want to live here don't know if I share that |
| 9:47 | · | s um it looked all a bit pristine and clean I don't think that it looked quite |
| 9:52 | · | as pristine and clean certainly in the southern end way back then |
| · | Do we know what the societal structure was like at Çatalhöyük? |
| 10:01 | · | uh in its way chatt Hoy is a surprisingly large community because |
| 10:07 | · | there's when you look at surrounding excavations surrounding sites that have been found they're all very small and |
| 10:14 | · | suddenly you have this uh this massive Community the population estimate has |
| 10:21 | · | been placed at 8,000 and under or thereabouts the whole functioning of |
| 10:28 | · | society chat is is in itself it's slightly enigmatic um because there's |
| 10:34 | · | Clues but there's no in yourf face evidence so uh there's been a lot of |
| 10:41 | · | debate about whether anything that size could have been egalitarian now a couple |
| 10:46 | · | of so sociologists came along when it had been determined that the population size of of chutle H was 8,000 or |
| 10:54 | · | thereabouts they said no not possible at all uh you can't have this many people living together unless there's a |
| 11:00 | · | hierarchy to keep it that way um otherwise they'd be knocking Seven Bells out of each other the uh minimum number |
| 11:07 | · | you could possibly maximum number you could possibly have uh would be 200 beyond that uh all hell's uh Breaks |
| 11:16 | · | Loose you would think something of that size would only function if it was |
| 11:21 | · | hierarchical but uh but there are various things that give Clues uh or seem to imply that uh it's itarian |
| 11:30 | · | number one there have been no special buildings found |
| 11:36 | · | yet um because again as a side bar you've got the thing that uh what only |
| 11:43 | · | 5% uh of the total area available to archaeology has been uh excavated uh so |
| 11:50 | · | they haven't found the larger rooms the uh the special rooms um that would speak |
| 11:57 | · | to people gathering together or or having accommodate or holding accommodation for the Great and the good |
| 12:05 | · | uh separate and away from uh the uh uh the populace no houses that are |
| 12:12 | · | massively bigger than any others uh nothing that's decorated particularly |
| 12:17 | · | more than any others or certainly in the houses that that are more |
| 12:23 | · | decorated there are contradictory Clues when you find uh another house that's |
| 12:28 | · | not decorated that seems to be more important in other ways to be fair a large amount of um uh uh ground |
| 12:36 | · | penetrating radar survey has been undertaken and that just shows the similar pattern of the existing known |
| 12:43 | · | houses repeating repeating repeating in a sort of North Basic North uh South |
| 12:49 | · | orientation um but they seem to buy and large be very similar size rooms um and |
| 12:57 | · | uh so the the jues out sort of but the |
| 13:03 | · | received opinion in that this was an egalitarian society health and |
| 13:09 | · | well-being is a is a marked thing at Chad as well because it seems that |
| 13:15 | · | if there's huge levels of INF well huge levels there's about a 20% child |
| 13:21 | · | mortality rate which is high you know that's a lot of children dying but it |
| 13:28 | · | seems that if a child got to the age of about 10 then they're all right and there are lots of burials where the |
| 13:35 | · | people have reached their 60s and 7s which for this period in history is you |
| 13:41 | · | know that's quite impressive really they're clearly they're eating well and uh and and and that in itself is another |
| 13:50 | · | indicator of of of a pretty peaceful environment people aren't uh aren't |
| 13:56 | · | dying young because of violence and aggression various things that do point |
| 14:02 | · | to it being egalitarian and and the biggest one is that they have found no |
| 14:09 | · | instances of of excessive violence none of the bodies that they have |
| 14:14 | · | excavated have been uh uh murdered there doesn't seem to have been interpersonal |
| 14:21 | · | violence going on there's there's no arrows in anybody there's no knife |
| 14:26 | · | wounds on bones that does have been some um blunt force trauma to the to the |
| 14:33 | · | skull that's another another issue but the evidence isn't there for people fighting amongst themselves so what was |
| 14:40 | · | it that was controlling this society and holding it together children weren't |
| 14:45 | · | necessarily growing up with their biological families they've been able to work out from the burials and the relationship of the people in the |
| 14:52 | · | burials to the people living in in the particular rooms is they're not |
| 14:59 | · | necessarily directly related so in each household you've got a a genetic mix |
| 15:05 | · | suggesting that at an early stage in their lives children have been fostered out into the community or to specific |
| 15:13 | · | you know um other families that's really interesting because it means that if |
| 15:19 | · | you're always nurturing other people's children and other people are nurturing |
| 15:26 | · | your children then you're going to want that uh to remain a peaceful environment |
| 15:32 | · | aren't you the the the fear of your children being in danger elsewhere in |
| 15:37 | · | the city would be enough to keep everybody quite peaceful I would think whether that's a glue that holds can |
| 15:45 | · | hold an egalitarian society together that's a that's a sort of that's a discussion for another |
| 15:54 | · | time there are so many facets uh of the society which may seem to us quite alien |
| · | What was their relationship to death? |
| 16:04 | · | people were buried in the flaw of the houses and this isn't unusual you find |
| 16:11 | · | it uh all over the world and you find it through time that people have often been |
| 16:16 | · | buried in their houses in the whole of the excavation period of chutle hook um |
| 16:22 | · | certainly during the last 30 years of excavation they've uh taken up uh R |
| 16:29 | · | about 800 skeletons 800 remains of 800 people out of the floors uh some of the |
| 16:36 | · | rooms uh didn't have any burials in them some did up to it seems one room had at |
| 16:41 | · | least 62 uh burials in it until that You' achieved some kind of um |
| 16:50 | · | maturity um I don't know what the rights of Passage in mid teens or something like that would have been but you'd have |
| 16:57 | · | been less likely to have been buried in the northern area along with the uh yeah |
| 17:03 | · | it seems that uh uh there's a a sort of siss CI citizen Hood level that needed |
| 17:09 | · | to be achieved before you were recognized enough to be buried in that part of the the house otherwise you |
| 17:16 | · | could probably probably be buried underneath the store cupboard uh as much |
| 17:21 | · | as anywhere else I mean you don't get infants certainly don't in infants and young people buried in the northern part |
| 17:27 | · | of their houses aside bar to that it seems that any Outsiders because of |
| 17:33 | · | course they do the genetic studies of you know where people have come from that have been living at uh at chattle |
| 17:39 | · | ho it seems that um Outsiders weren't afforded that luxury being buried in the |
| 17:45 | · | northern quarters of a house they too were more likely to be buried underneath |
| 17:50 | · | in other areas and in the storage rooms alongside the uh youngsters so there's |
| 17:56 | · | some kind of citizenship going on here um you know whether you're on outside or |
| 18:02 | · | or if you're too young to have passed the threshold burial underneath the |
| 18:07 | · | floor uh seems odd to us um but also the |
| 18:13 | · | fact that it seems that uh the bones that have come out of the ground out of these burials um are |
| 18:22 | · | articulated are the bodies must have been put in whole which raises a few |
| 18:27 | · | questions uh about hygiene smell it's not for nothing that graves are six feet |
| 18:33 | · | in the ground I think there is some evidence to suggest otherwise that some |
| 18:39 | · | of the bodies have been bundled in some way before they've been interred and may |
| 18:44 | · | there may been a period of time quite a long period of time between death and interment so that |
| 18:52 | · | means that it was an intact body when it went in the ground it's not uh as we've |
| 18:58 | · | seen in different cultures for example where you have uh bodies left out to uh |
| 19:05 | · | to rot or be pecked you know eaten Away by birds and animals before the bones are collated and brought in uh so the |
| 19:13 | · | suggestion is that the bodies have been uh treated in some way were they being |
| 19:18 | · | dried smoked whatever it might be uh somebody said there were there was a smoking treatment perhaps The Kipper I |
| 19:25 | · | don't what does seem to be the case is that there are secondary burials so for |
| 19:32 | · | example some uh some bodies whilst they might be articulated skeletons they |
| 19:37 | · | might not be fully articulated there might be limbs missing limbs are not always all their heads certainly we've |
| 19:45 | · | got quite a lot of headless bodies so things are being kept back as |
| 19:51 | · | momentos uh within the family or within the the community and it seems being |
| 19:57 | · | passed around as well and obviously we can't say why uh or over what period of |
| 20:03 | · | time but they have been moved and reared and I think there's a suggestion |
| 20:08 | · | sometimes as bones are in bundles for example I think one of the most fascinating things for me was they found |
| 20:14 | · | a woman buried who was clutching a skull she was holding it to herself as if this |
| 20:21 | · | was uh I mean my interpretation was it looks like it's a loved one this person |
| 20:27 | · | was holding on to to the skull and the thing about that skull was they found that it had been plastered and paint |
| 20:35 | · | applied to the plaster and replastered four times so basically |
| 20:40 | · | putting an artificial face back on replacing the features of the deceased |
| 20:47 | · | is the idea to uh uh have the person of the deceased persist in time through the |
| 20:54 | · | plaster and the painting of a face and those kind of things um uh intriguing to |
| 21:00 | · | say the least but certainly managing the dead and burying |
| 21:06 | · | people together we don't know whether the people buried together were a |
| 21:12 | · | community or were they strangers was it was it just uh we had did someone just |
| 21:19 | · | knock on your door and say we've got someone else that needs burying have you got room in yours we don't know |
| · | How many people lived there and how did they subsist? |
| 21:29 | · | uh you the site is is Big the overall area uh that's been identified is a |
| 21:36 | · | roughly 13 14 hectares um so that's about |
| 21:42 | · | 35ish acres of land and uh that 21 M of |
| 21:49 | · | of depth you can see that that's an awful lot of residential uh houses to be excavated we |
| 21:56 | · | don't know if there are other sites like chattle hoik to be found yet in Anatolia |
| 22:04 | · | or elsewhere uh certainly smaller sites um |
| 22:09 | · | any number of those and from times before up to a thousand 1500 years |
| 22:16 | · | before we get uh places like just up the road Bon Oak uh which is a small village |
| 22:24 | · | 150 people yet that displays many of the similar uh um |
| 22:30 | · | societal um Moors that traits that exhibited at chattle ho on a smaller |
| 22:37 | · | scale still got burials under the floor you still got burials concentrated towards the Northern end of the um the |
| 22:43 | · | Hut could almost call it a Proto City uh a large town where uh we don't know |
| 22:49 | · | exactly how many people were living there but certainly it seems likely that it was thousands uh the upper estimates |
| 22:57 | · | have been 8,000 lower estimates around 2,000 maybe but it's how people lived |
| 23:03 | · | together being able to uh excavate how people were living uh that's the most important |
| 23:10 | · | thing you know so often we find in uh in archaeological excavations that we find |
| 23:17 | · | the signs of uh of what people did um |
| 23:22 | · | particularly you when you come into Western Europe and you're looking at whether it's Stone circles or or or do |
| 23:29 | · | that you have these structures that uh that people left behind but with very little clue as to anything about the |
| 23:35 | · | people themselves and here at chattle Hayak what you have is people it's all about the people and how they were |
| 23:42 | · | living when we visited chle ho one of our big takeaways of course was how |
| 23:48 | · | phenomenal The Visitor Center was the brand new one we were actually the first people that uh were privileged enough to |
| 23:56 | · | see the inside of it uh and I remember one big uh animated CGI diarama of the |
| 24:04 | · | whole scene of of chat of the the town the town city Village whatever you call |
| 24:10 | · | it uh on the on the mound and uh people working the fields around about uh you |
| 24:18 | · | know the the semi- wild or the cereals Wheats emers whatever whatever they are |
| 24:24 | · | one of the more recent discoveries of chattel hok was uh they found some |
| 24:29 | · | uncooked dough uh uh with an oven uh |
| 24:35 | · | which is fantastic really that so we know for a long time that uh that |
| 24:41 | · | societies were were making breads flat breads um from uh Wild Grains um so it's |
| 24:52 | · | to to see a situation where people are beginning to grow particular kinds of |
| 24:57 | · | grains to make particular kinds of bread it seems that it was particularly fertile |
| 25:05 | · | it's at the sort of uh sort of like a um |
| 25:10 | · | it was surrounded by Wetland that was uh fed by uh two the Confluence of of Two |
| 25:17 | · | Rivers uh I think there's certainly a sort of like a little mini Delta area |
| 25:23 | · | there with islands and RI rivlets and and streams running through uh just a |
| 25:30 | · | perfectly fertile environment that doesn't actually occur that often um |
| 25:36 | · | where we've got a Confluence of uh qualiity of qual qualities of land that |
| 25:42 | · | come together to a provide Wetland and and uh fertile soils for where you can |
| 25:49 | · | uh manage your cereals but also um the the rivers for fish and and fowl and uh |
| 25:59 | · | and and uh Lands Beyond for the hunting of game it's a very particular place |
| 26:04 | · | these places are contingent upon very particular sets of circumstances for |
| 26:10 | · | them to arise in these these |
| 26:17 | · | places goes without saying that with an archaeological site that's been under |
| · | What about the material culture? |
| 26:23 | · | excavation for 30 years uh that there's a fair amount of material stuffff uh |
| 26:31 | · | objects what's coming out of excavations what people left behind figurines uh |
| 26:37 | · | tools there's the things you'd expect to find like obsidian blades obsidian was |
| 26:43 | · | hugely important at chutle hook uh and particularly at chutle hook for for some |
| 26:48 | · | reason um there seem to be hordes of obsidian um you know roughed out |
| 26:55 | · | obsidian ready to be uh made into useful tools and so on and so forth uh so I |
| 27:03 | · | don't know what that whether they were trading obsidian whether it was a sort of staging po point for uh trading in |
| 27:10 | · | obsidian I'm not quite sure but chh there's a heck of a lot of the stuff and |
| 27:17 | · | of course in terms of not just hordes but in finished tools as well of all shapes and sizes qus grinding Stones |
| 27:25 | · | those sorts of things which speak to you know the kind of things that people were uh eating um we do have some pottery |
| 27:35 | · | Ceramics uh that art was uh was quite impressive I think one of the most you |
| 27:41 | · | know thing that people most want to read into I are the figurines and those uh |
| 27:48 | · | little bits of sculpture that are are representational of of animals or of or |
| 27:55 | · | of people uh there's one particular particularly striking figurine it's |
| 28:00 | · | probably quite a familiar image when people think of chatal hoek and that's of the uh the large seated uh woman on |
| 28:10 | · | what looks like a a throne that's what it looks like it could just be somebody sitting in an |
| 28:16 | · | armchair but it looks like somebody's sitting on a throne some have said uh that it's a woman giving birth uh I say |
| 28:25 | · | not so fast this this is a woman that that looks like she's in charge of the situation whatever it is uh and uh you |
| 28:34 | · | know speaks to somebody in Authority because there aren't any uh corollary um |
| 28:41 | · | uh figures of men in yet bearing in mind we're still only got |
| 28:47 | · | 5% of the surface area excavated um but uh it speaks very much |
| 28:54 | · | to a woman in the place of authority parts you know that's uh it's interesting when you're looking at the |
| 29:01 | · | uh pre Pottery Neolithic that uh that we find an increasing number of |
| 29:09 | · | pots it bothers me you know that uh they still call it ppnb don't they ppnb pre |
| 29:18 | · | Pottery Neolithic Pottery so much for names little |
| 29:24 | · | figurines of of animals that look like play things you know or they could be |
| 29:30 | · | important objects for people to carry around who who knows but they look sort of you can imagine them being formed in |
| 29:38 | · | the hand they've got that sort of rough sort of semi abstract form or abstracted |
| 29:45 | · | form of the animal in question that uh it's like theyve been like I remember |
| 29:50 | · | playing with plaster scene at school it was easy to make something like that in in your hands |
| · | What did you takeaway from visiting Çatalhöyük? |
| 30:01 | · | one of the most significant things for me was |
| 30:06 | · | bricks bricks and and the thing is that bricks it's Game Changer that that you |
| 30:12 | · | you look at a house pick any house anywhere and I'm talking about in this period of History where you're used to |
| 30:19 | · | seeing mud Huts we see mud Huts uh or waterl and DB Huts all over the place where people are just uh coating the |
| 30:26 | · | walls with u with plaster and that's fine but the thing about bricks as soon |
| 30:32 | · | as you get clay bricks together it's modular you can do what you want you can make any shape you like and uh and the |
| 30:41 | · | thing is that it means that you can you can almost have it on a an industrial scale that you could have people who are |
| 30:48 | · | making bricks and uh and it it does give you a |
| 30:53 | · | clearer idea or a clearer sense of why a city can develop in uh in so simple a |
| 31:00 | · | way because everything's modular just add to it you can have such a |
| 31:05 | · | comparatively small area containing an awful lot of people |
| 31:12 | · | whereas if you're constricted to round W Andor |
| 31:17 | · | houses or mud houses then there's only so many people you can get into an area it just changes how people can live |
| 31:25 | · | together coming away from chutle hug and visiting the archaeological site seeing |
| 31:32 | · | one area of the excavation seeing what the landscape is |
| 31:39 | · | now and the breadth of it you know the con plane that's in and also seeing the |
| 31:44 | · | The Visitor Center it's came away with a feeling of |
| 31:51 | · | familiarity and yet it felt alien at the same time fam AR ity because as Liz said |
| 32:00 | · | as she came down the stairs I could live here you know it's a perfectly habitable room given all you have you know the all |
| 32:07 | · | you have in order to subsist and yet it seems there are little hints Here There |
| 32:13 | · | and Everywhere of uh a society that behaves you know interacts with each other and holds itself together in quite |
| 32:21 | · | an alien way that to what we're used to so that mix of uh familiarity and the |
| 32:30 | · | unfamiliar and the you know almost alien in some ways uh that's what I I take |
| 32:37 | · | away from |
| · | What would you like them to find at Çatalhöyük? |
| 32:42 | · | that I think when you consider that these extion have been going on for so |
| 32:49 | · | long and they have only uncovered such a tiny percentage of the |
| 32:57 | · | whole site and uh and the thing is that when you've got 20 M of depth of the tail site and |
| 33:06 | · | they've they've gone over the rest of it with ground penetrating radar but ground penetrating radar only goes down about 3 |
| 33:12 | · | m uh so there could be an awful lot of stuff that's deeper into the earlier |
| 33:19 | · | stages of the settlement and I have to say you know the the excavations are going on they are going to carry on for |
| 33:26 | · | we don't know how long a very long time and I I would just love it if they found |
| 33:34 | · | something somewhere in the middle of the city that was like the communal place |
| 33:40 | · | this is where everybody came to party or or whatever just you know if they did |
| 33:46 | · | find a communal place because the thing that gets me about it now is that from |
| 33:51 | · | everything that's been uncovered it's just it's just people living people living people living |
| 33:58 | · | there's no signs of downtime I think that's it that's what |
| 34:05 | · | I'm I would really like to see maybe evidence for an hierarchy I'm not |
| 34:11 | · | entirely convinced by the the um the the egalitarian completely egalitarian |
| 34:18 | · | society I still think you need something even if it is an egalitarian society you |
| 34:23 | · | can call it that you still need something to hold it together uh leaders always emerge in societies there |
| 34:31 | · | there's very little mechanism by which you can prevent that if you've got a large number of people uh people either |
| 34:40 | · | come for themselves or people push them forwards you know they feel oh we need a leader under these |
| 34:47 | · | circumstances so uh you know open-minded completely um but I'd like them to find |
| 34:53 | · | a special building and uh yeah and it' be a bit of a shock if they found a te |
| 34:59 | · | wouldn't it |
