Posted on 05/06/2024 8:04:47 AM PDT by marktwain
A continual debate in the firearms and hunting community is about caliber wars. 9mm v .45. What is the minimum caliber for whitetail deer? What calibers are good for elk? Moose? Grizzly bears? In the research of handguns fired in defense against bears, a surprising conclusion springs forth: Caliber is not as important as we thought. Having a firearm is more important than caliber. There are several reasons why this is so.
First, a firearm builds confidence. A person with a firearms has more confidence they can do something instead of nothing. Call it the psychological factor. A firearm gives a person the confidence to stand their ground. Even bear spray proponent Tom Smith acknowledges the importance of this. From byu.edu/news, 2008:
Smith believes one of the primary reasons bear spray works is that it gives users a reason to stand their ground. Running is the worst response to an aggressive bear, he said, “but it’s hard not to.
Second, there is noise. Firearms, even small caliber handguns, are loud, much louder than nearly anything in nature except for a thunderclap. Warning shots work primarily though noise. Warning shots are seriously underrated because most successful warning shots are not reported. Of the documented incidents where handguns were fired in defense against bears, warning shots worked 21 of 29 times or 69%. Bears that are indifferent to the presence of a human and to warning shots are very dangerous bears.
(Excerpt) Read more at ammoland.com ...
Having trained people to defend themselves with firearms and other weapons for over 4 decades.
Having defended my self from serious attacks
Having used firearms and other weapons for self-defense.
The old saying is you fight like you train has a lot of truth to it.
The more you train the more you practice and the better you do it.
The chance of having a better out come increases.
She was a lifelong hunter and trapper. So it was probably skill.
Too many variables in this one to make any categorical statement. A bear encounter is different from a bear attack, and hunting a bear is different from Mr. Bear hunting you. Still, simple rules: (1) have a gun, (2) hit the target. (3) is arguing about caliber and is best performed at the local saloon afterward.
Thanks. She was a good shot.
“Handgun Defense Against Bears, Caliber NOT Critical as Thought...”
Yeah, right. That’s why experienced Alaskan guides carry 22’s.
Phil Shoemaker is as about as experienced an Alaskan guide as you can get.
Last week in July 2016, Alaska: Guide Kills Attacking Grizzly with 9mm
In the last week in July, 2016, Phil Shoemaker had use a 9mm pistol to kill a grizzly that was threatening his clients and himself. It worked.
Maybe that’s all he had at the time. Something is better than nothing. My understanding has been guides prefer 12 gauge slugs, Guide Guns etc. I’d carry an air horn and a 45 70 as back up.
Another clue is the scar on top of the seller’s right hand thumb, caused by the slide’s rapid movement and careless thumb placement.
(I know this from my own experience!) (Grin)
I’m still packing a Glock 20 with Buffalo Bore 220 gr ammo over a .22 pistol.
Yes, you are correct.
Your comment: "Something is better than nothing", is the major take-away from the article. Virtually all handguns beat not having one.
Why wouldn't you? It is a good choice.
Many people make comments such as "It will just anger the bear" or "such and such a caliber is useless against bears".
The data shows all calibers can be useful, and no one caliber is the optimum all of the time.
Bears are not bullet proof, nor are they immune to pain.
I have had many discussions with Phil Shoemaker.
He was carrying his 9mm that day. Because he just had did some testing with buffalo bore 147gr hard cast and found the pentation to be adequate.
He was also under the impression that he never had to shoot or use a handgun ward off a bear. So he most likely would not have to.
His normal handgun is a S@W 629 mountain gun in 44mag. He left that in the plane. Because the 9mm was not as heavy and a little easier to carry.
One makes one choices and one lives with that choice.
Knowing guides most are not gun guys they tend to use what they have.
Phil carries a 458 win mag. for back up when guiding bear hunters.
I was leaning towards that side.
I would want a 10mm or 41 magnum as a minimum.
The 10mm and 41mag can cross over the power range.
Long barreled 10mm can surpass short barreled 41 mags.
Long barreled hot 41’s surpass’ the 10mm’s..
I have shot bears with the 41 worked well.
A couple of Alaskan guides with YouTube channels recommend 45-70s, hunting rifle calibers like 308, 30-06, 300 Win mag, etc. And large magnum pistols. There are as many opinions as there are people. So while, yes sometimes people have killed bears with 22s and 9mms, they probably aren’t the best choice. When I’m in bear country (Utah, Idaho, Wyoming) I take a lever action 45-70 and a 44mag with 300 gr projectiles. And a big bottle of bear spray. And keep the food sealed up.
Be careful with 10mm ammo. Some of it is no better in performance than .40 S&W.
Federal, I’m talking to you.
👍
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