NOT the Catholic Church. It is the heretical abomination that mocks God.

God will not be mocked. Do so at the risk of your immortal soul.

However, some Catholics themselves imagine a popeless mystical church, their Holy Mother Church as being The One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church which is spotless, without blemish, absolutely untouched by the unfaithfulness of laity and prelates, and modern popes of the past few decades who allowed a massive wave of debauchery.

All either wishful thinking or rationalization for staying with a corrupt, immoral religious organization.

Staying with something because of what you dream it ideally should be does not absolve anyone of the responsibility of participating in what it actually is.

... if “there is a danger of scandal,...

IF?!?!?

But he said to them, “Not everyone can accept this teaching, but only those to whom it is given.

For there are eunuchs who have been so from birth,

and there are eunuchs who have been made eunuchs by others,

and there are eunuchs who have made themselves eunuchs for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.

Let anyone accept this who can.”

—Matthew 19:11–12

Acts 8:26-40
English Standard Version

²⁶Now an angel of the Lord said to Philip, “Rise and go toward the south^[a] to the road that goes down from Jerusalem to Gaza.” This is a desert place. ²⁷And he rose and went. And there was an Ethiopian, a eunuch, a court official of Candace, queen of the Ethiopians, who was in charge of all her treasure. He had come to Jerusalem to worship ²⁸and was returning, seated in his chariot, and he was reading the prophet Isaiah. ²⁹And the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over and join this chariot.” ³⁰So Philip ran to him and heard him reading Isaiah the prophet and asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” ³¹And he said, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to come up and sit with him. ³²Now the passage of the Scripture that he was reading was this:

“Like a sheep he was led to the slaughter
    and like a lamb before its shearer is silent,
    so he opens not his mouth.
³³In his humiliation justice was denied him.
    Who can describe his generation?
For his life is taken away from the earth.”

³⁴And the eunuch said to Philip, “About whom, I ask you, does the prophet say this, about himself or about someone else?” ³⁵Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning with this Scripture he told him the good news about Jesus. ³⁶And as they were going along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “See, here is water! What prevents me from being baptized?”^[b] ³⁸And he commanded the chariot to stop, and they both went down into the water, Philip and the eunuch, and he baptized him. ³⁹And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord carried Philip away, and the eunuch saw him no more, and went on his way rejoicing. ⁴⁰But Philip found himself at Azotus, and as he passed through he preached the gospel to all the towns until he came to Caesarea.

And likewise imperfect Paul, (Philippians 3:13) who attested that to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord.

Not quite...

‘to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord’

Sorry; but IS TO BE is not found among any of the following translations...

2 Corinthians 5:8

Verse (Click for Chapter)

New International Version
We are confident, I say, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

New Living Translation
Yes, we are fully confident, and we would rather be away from these earthly bodies, for then we will be at home with the Lord.

English Standard Version
Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Berean Study Bible
We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Berean Literal Bible
Now we are confident and are pleased rather to be absent out of the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

New American Standard Bible
we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

New King James Version
We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

King James Bible
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Christian Standard Bible
In fact, we are confident, and we would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

Contemporary English Version
We should be cheerful, because we would rather leave these bodies and be at home with the Lord.

Good News Translation
We are full of courage and would much prefer to leave our home in the body and be at home with the Lord.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
and we are confident and satisfied to be out of the body and at home with the Lord.

International Standard Version
We are confident, then, and would prefer to be away from this body and to live with the Lord.

NET Bible
Thus we are full of courage and would prefer to be away from the body and at home with the Lord.

New Heart English Bible
We are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
Because of this we trust and we long to depart from the body and to be with Our Lord.

GOD'S WORD® Translation
We are confident and prefer to live away from this body and to live with the Lord.

New American Standard 1977
we are of good courage, I say, and prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord.

Jubilee Bible 2000
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

King James 2000 Bible
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

American King James Version
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

American Standard Version
we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

Douay-Rheims Bible
But we are confident, and have a good will to be absent rather from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Darby Bible Translation
we are confident, I say, and pleased rather to be absent from the body and present with the Lord.

English Revised Version
we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

Webster's Bible Translation
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Weymouth New Testament
So we have a cheerful confidence, and we anticipate with greater delight being banished from the body and going home to the Lord.

World English Bible
We are courageous, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

Young's Literal Translation
we have courage, and are well pleased rather to be away from the home of the body, and to be at home with the Lord.

How can we judge another fellas servant?

Romans 14:4 kjv Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.

And likewise imperfect Paul, (Philippians 3:13) who attested that to be absent from the body was to be present with the Lord. (2 Corinthians 5:7; cf. Philippians 1:23)

‘to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord’ Sorry; but IS TO BE is not found among any of the following translations... 2 Corinthians 5:8

Sorry, but I did not place my statement is to be present with the Lord’ in quotes, but was stating what was being taught, as being either/or juxtaposition, absent from the body or present with the Lord, versus an interminable time in RC Purgatory, or in your case, soul sleep. Instead, like as the contrite criminal in Lk. 23,only two conditions, two realities are set forth here, with being present with the Lord, not sleeping, being what Paul prefers over being present with his flock.

There is nothing in the Greek that even suggest any interim period here, and reading that into is contrary to the two conditions that are set in contrast. None of your translations reads anything like, "We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be sleeping in the Lord." (2 Corinthians 5:8)

8We are confident, [I say], and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
The KJV translates Strong's G2532 in the following manner: and (8,173x), also (514x), even (108x), both (43x), then (20x), so (18x), likewise (13x), not tr. (350x), miscellaneous (31x), variations of 'and' (1x).

Likewise, reading soul sleep in Philippians 1:23 means it should read something like: "For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to sleep for until Christ comes and then finally be with Him; which is far better," which is contrast to the either/or immediate sense. At least you would not have it read, having a desire to depart, and to Purgatory and later finally be with Christ, which is far better. (Philippians 1:23)

As for more debate on soul sleep, I responded to you on this a while back, but I do not know when.

When I was growing up in the 1970s, you couldn't eat meat on Fridays, nor could you take communion if you were divorced.

The Catholic religion seems to have relaxed their standards somewhat since those days.

As for more debate on soul sleep, I responded to you on this a while back, but I do not know when.

Here's what I've found in Scripture.

Daniel 12:2
Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

1 Thessalonians 4:13
Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope.

1 Corinthians 15:51-52
Listen, I tell you a mystery:

We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet.

For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Looks like Scripture disagrees with the claim that believers who have died are in heaven RIGHT NOW; doesn't it!

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 King James Version (KJV)

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Dead in Christ?

Many folks say the 'in Christ' folks are already in Heaven.

Then what's this RAISING that is being bandied about here?

Somewhat.

As for more debate on soul sleep, I responded to you on this a while back, but I do not know when. Here's what I've found in Scripture. Daniel 12:2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt. 1 Thessalonians 4:13 Brothers and sisters, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you do not grieve like the rest of mankind, who have no hope. 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. Looks like Scripture disagrees with the claim that believers who have died are in heaven RIGHT NOW; doesn't it! 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 King James Version (KJV) 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Dead in Christ? Many folks say the 'in Christ' folks are already in Heaven. Then what's this RAISING that is being bandied about here?

It is referring to just what it refers to, the resurrection of the body, that being the main event in the kingdom of God, without which there will be much of the book of Revelation missing as pertains to the redeemed, unless you subscribe the pretrip rapture. Or at least before the opening of the fifth seal, for "when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (Revelation 6:9-10).

In any case,

"our conversation is in heaven; from whence [G3739 which/whereof] also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself." (Philippians 3:20-21)

I think this is also inspired Truth: when "the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it." (Ecclesiastes 12:6-7)

Thus Paul was

in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: (Philippians 1:23)

For

whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord: (2 Corinthians 5:6)

Which contrast btwn two conditions, either the earthly and the Heavenly, vs. an intermediate place or condition, is what I see the collective weight of Scripture teaching.

Yet even if the redeemed are not yet in Heaven, then as shown in the literal story of Luke 16:19-31, they would not be actually sleeping, comatose, but as those who were in paradise, and are, that being the 3rd Heaven, in which Paul saw sacred revelation. (2 Co. 12:4)

For as told you in the previous reply (I found it),

there are texts which speak of souls being conscious before the resurrections. Such as,

And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham’s bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. (Luke 16:22-23)

Here, souls are conscious after death, and experiencing two contrasting moralities. This is not a parable, for in this [that] genre known physical realities are used which represent spiritual equivalents, and the Lord never used real names or science fiction [which He would be using here if there was no such thing as consciousness after death before the resurrection]. However, the Lord used real names here, .... Laz and the rich man represent classes and a spiritual reality...[and paradise is now the third heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:4)]

Here, the next place [the] contrite criminal will be is with the Lord, in paradise, not the grave. And moving the comma to after "Today" does not make grammatical sense (when else would He tell the man that?).

And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? (Revelation 6:9-10)

Here again, souls are conscious after death, without a physical head (separated Christians), though the pretrib rapturists would say such were part of the first resurrection. [Next]

For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:18-20)

This best denotes conscious souls being preached to, and it is hardly tenable that prison here is just the grave. [Next]

But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) (Ephesians 4:7-10)

This is correspondent with Abraham's bosom being paradise, to which OT believers went, since while God forgave sins before the final atonement, in recognizance of it, yet "it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins" (Hebrews 10:4) and thus, with the earthly tabernacle/holy places being "figures of the true" (Hebrews 9:24) that of type and anti-type, "The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing, Which was a figure for the time then present" (Hebrews 9:8, 9) into which only the High Priest, being a figure of Christ could enter, and which He did, "Neither by the blood of goats and calves, but by his own blood he entered in once into the holy place, having obtained eternal redemption for us." (Hebrews 9:12)

Thus, at the cry of "It is finished," (Jn. 19:30) behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent (Matthew 27:51) signifying the way into the holy of holies was opened. And thus after his resurrection, many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many. Therefore believers [spiritually now] have "boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus," (Hebrews 10:19) by the sinless shed blood of Christ, "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him." (1 Peter 3:22)

Which is also correspondent to

Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things. And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers.. (Ephesians 4:9-11) And with paradise now being the third heaven. (2 Corinthians 12:4)

Note also that neither Enoch (Genesis 5:24) nor Elijah (2 Kings 2:11) are actually said to have entered into God's presence in heaven, as the word for heaven is not specific of that (though it can denote it), but usually refers to the visible realm above, from the atmosphere to space.

Meaning that prior to the perfect atonement of Christ OT believers were in paradise/Abraham's bosom, this being the other side of Hades, with a "great gulf" separating this place of comfort from the "place of torment," (Luke 16:26, 28) but the perfect atonement of Christ split the veil, and opened up the holy of holies for believers to enter by the sinless shed blood of Christ. And while being quickened by the Spirit, the Lord of all also went and preached unto the disobedient spirits in prison, (1 Peter 3:19) perhaps revealing that, like as those who died never having heard of Christ, yet in rejecting the light they had which would have led them to Christ, (cf. John 12:35, 36; Romans 2:14016) then they were essentially rejecting Him who gives light to all who come into this world, (John 1:9) and declaring His victory. I say "perhaps" since I do not know of anything corespondent and confirmatory to this.

In any case, we have substantial testimony and with complimentary texts to souls being conscious after death, which is not in necessary conflict with sleeping in death and bodily resurrection, for the former refers to the spiritual aspect and the other, that of the physical. ... All of which stands illustrates how a complimentary confluence of Scriptures works to provide illumination.

Here are some pages from a Greek scholar but which I have not reviewed (not that I agree with him in all he says on doctrine):

The False Doctrine of "Soul Sleep" I.

Sleep as a Euphemism for Death (debunking 'soul sleep').

The False Doctrine of "Soul Sleep" II.

You posted a lot of stuff.

I merely want an answer to this:

1 Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV)

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

From WHERE?

You posted a lot of stuff. I merely want an answer to this: 1 Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: From WHERE?

You might as well ask, "The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again," (Luke 24:7) From WHERE? In both cases the answer is from their graves, but this does not mean their whole being was sleeping, unconscious in their body in a literal grave, or even in an incinerator, but as Abraham was, they are conscious, in Paradise, where Christ went the day of His death, (Luke 23:43) and the elders of Revelation 4:4 were/are as well as the martyred souls of Revelation 6:9,10. But with Paradise now being the 3rd heaven. (2 Co. 12:4)

And at the last trump, they have their bodies reconstituted and with their spirit rise from the dead with it, as with the Lord's resurrection, and be judged in it for the loss and gaining of rewards. (1 Co. 3:8ff)

Likewise in their sentencing the lost will be made to stand in the bodies they used to sin with. Thus at that great white throne judgment "death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works," (Revelation 20:13) with death representing the realm of their physical bodies and Hell representing the realm of their spiritual abode.

But if the dead are unconscious, and not just physically no knowing anything but spiritually, then the lost are not conscious and not in Hell now, and Luke 16:19-31 is not true as a literal account, but has Christ using science fiction for the first and only time in telling a strange parable.

I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living. (Matthew 22:32)

IF?!?!?

Acts 8:26-40English Standard Version

Acts 8:26-40
English Standard Version