Here I come...
...ready or not.
Amos 4:12 NIV
"Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel,
and because I will do this to you, Israel,
prepare to meet your God."
Posted on 09/03/2023 10:10:00 AM PDT by daniel1212
Certainly that logical fallacy, a superficial ignorant parroted polemic (such as invokes everything from the Flood to AIDS as a moral argument against God), can be answered. There simply is no contradiction btwn God being omnipotent (and omniscient) and all good (from whom all good has come, as the creator of an exceedingly vast, systematicity ordered universe, exquisitely fine-tuned for our physical life), and the allowance of evil, For unless you want a world in which mankind is like a cloud or a robot, then allowing evil is a necessary good if: Man is to be a being with the ability to make moral choices; And if such choices are to have effects/consequences, for both good and evil, And which consequences can affect others as well as self, directly or indirectly. But which God can make to ultimately work out for what is Good, in the light of all that can be known. Which includes just punishment for eternal beings which manifest they wanted the opposite of God, (John 3:19–21) though only being punished according to what they could and did choose to do, (Deuteronomy 24:16; Luke 10:1- 15; Revelation 20:12; cf. 2 Corinthians 8:12) while making all to work out to the benefit of those who honestly choose Him over sin, seeking and finding the mercy of God in the Lord Christ. (Roman 8:28) Consider some alternatives. God could have, 1. made us (and angels) with no moral standard or sense or deprived us from the moral ability to respond to or choose good [morally insensible, even as with clouds]. 2. granted us free moral agency, but never have given us anything to choose between [negation of moral choices, and no devil or God]. 3. left man only with recourse to finite competing sources as his ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security, and supreme judge of what is good [atheism and atheistic governments]. 4. called man to make the Creator their ultimate object of spiritual affection and allegiance and source of security as being what is right and what is best for man, versus finite created beings or things being one's "god," and provided moral revelation and influences. Yet always have moved us to do good, and never have allowed us to choose evil (even if as by making believing in God and choosing good so utterly compelling — like God appearing daily and always doing miracles on demand, and preventing any seeming evidence to the contrary - so that no man could attempt to make excuses for not believing in Him [effective negation of any freedom to choose]). 5. allowed created beings a negative alternative to faithfulness to the creator, and the ability to choose evil, but immediately reversed any effects and not penalized such [negation of consequences to choices]. 6. allowed us to do bad, but restricted us to a place where it would harm no one but ourselves [isolated consequences to choices]. 7. allowed us to choose between good and evil, and to affect others by it, but not ultimately reward or punish us accordingly [negation of judicial and eternal consequences, positive or negative]. 8. given us the ability to choose, and alternatives to chose between, and to face and overcome evil or be overcome by it, with the ability to effect others and things by our choices, and to exercise some reward or punishment in this life for morality, and ultimately reward or punishment all accordingly [pure justice]. 9. restrained evil to some degree, while making the evil that man does to work out for what is Good, with justice yet with mercy, and grace, towards those who want good, and who thus the One who is supremely Good. 10. in accordance with 8, the Creator could have chose to manifest Himself in the flesh, and by Him to provide man a means of escaping the ultimate retribution of Divine justice, and instead receive unmerited eternal favor, at God's own expense and credit, appropriated by a repentant obedient faith, in addition to the loss or gaining of certain rewards based on one's quality of work as a child of God. And eternally punish, to varying degrees relative to iniquity and accountability, those whose response to God's revelation manifested they want evil, [justice maintained while mercy and grace given]. But man, as an exceedingly finite being who is but a speck in this universe, and in the sea of humanity, and whose existence on earth occupies an infinitesimal amount of time, and who is very ignorant of what all the effects of his choices have been and will be, in time and eternity, and quite impotent to make them all work out as he/she wants, not only in one’s own life but in others, and for this life, as well as eternity, is in no position to sit in judgment upon an omniscient and omnipotent being and giver of life, who alone knows what all the effects will be of even our most seemingly insignificant actions or inactions, not only in this life but for eternity. And can make all work out for what is Good, for what is just, as well as showing mercy and grace. And which the God of the Bible has often manifestly done already, and promises to do for those who choose the ultimate Good, the living and true God, (Romans 8:28) by His grace, thanks be to God. This the choices of an omniscient omnipotent Being cannot be judged as being evil or good by extremely finite and relatively ignorant man. Not that - in my ignorance myself - I have/do not too often protested His dealing with me as I subjectively imagined Him, though objectively blessed, and I am being blessed right now listening to, uplifting spiritual worship: Oden Fong and Friends: Lord of All Creation. Glory to God
Sometimes we screw it up. But not always. The very essence of free will is that we do often make the correct choice.
This is true both in personal life and in politics.
For example, Jan 19 2020 government allowed a mixture of free choice and not-so-free mandates in use of fossil fuel.
Jan 21 the US shifted and greatly increased the mandates and reduced the freedom to choose. The results are obvious.
Jan 21 Biden signaled to Putin and Bidenomics would finance Putin’s invasion of Ukraine. At the same time Biden created inflation. Removed the ability of the working poor to buy gasoline to get to work. Bidenomics created inflation that hurt the poor much harder than the rich.... and with no freedom to choose.... with Biden bastardizing his concept of a God who mandates.
No I did not side stop... The Bible is clear, this is not how creation was intended... we live in a fallen creation... both man made and natural tribulations were not the intention... but are the reality of our separation with God...
The relationship and reality of our developing with God will be reestablished in time... but for now we we strain forward until that time comes...
You ask why... and the Bible states does the pot question the potter... obviously the meaning is to state it is His creation and His right to dictate the purpose of such...
You may choose to believe such or not... but that is the reality of what a follower of Christ understands...
Short answer?
No.
I refer you to a few words that GOD said to Job near the end of the Book:
“Once upon a midnight dreary...
What kind of qualities, does evidence need, to be considered extraordinary ?
I just referenced Job in another thread just a few minutes ago!
“N E V E R M O R E!”
Ezekiel 2:6
“And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briers and thorns be with thee and thou dost dwell among scorpions. Be not afraid of their words nor be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.
Why the aversion to serial killers?
2 Peter 3:9 NIV
The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.
Luke 13:4
... Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem?
I’m curious, and I doubt that I would be one of those you presume to be angered.
Romans 9
19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?
20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
“Suffering is a result of sin”.
Those kind of statements really push me away.
So each cancer patient, even the innocent babies, are suffering sinners and paying the price in God’s eyes?
Starting somewhere in the late medieval period (Occam's razor, etc.) people started studying the natural world ("the world is made by a reasonable creator, it is his artwork / handiwork. if we study it, we'll get to know Him better.")
From that, people began to observe rather than merely wax eloquent; to record carefully, then to predict based on the experiments, by creating ideas of what was causing the behaviour they observed, *and then correcting their ideas if what they saw, didn't agree*.
Over time, people forgot to think of this practice as "natural philosophy" and began to consider as though the idealizations or theoretical frameworks ("models") for natural behaviour, were not idealizations from generalizing under controlled conditions, but were "really" what was going on. Think of the philosophers' reactions to Newton's laws of mechanics -- "hooray, we now know how the whole world works, we don't need a fictitious "God" to explain stuff. I F'ing Love Science!"
But implicit in that was an error, which I tried to indirectly mock/make reference to with the Bud Light commercial: the idea that God or gods, were really superstition designed to explain a complex, ever changing world, and that science was the superior method of doing so.
And so, since that's all the natural scientists cared about, was being able to predict/control things (and thereby improve the lot of humanity, or at least get rich helping *some* people, in return for money), they assumed that that had always been the goal of theology, too, and made fun of theology either for not being very good at it, or for wasting its time in esoteric disputations ("how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?")
Disclaimer: typed in a great hurry while watching YouTube Videos on strength/flexibility training and doing several other things. Meant as a broad overview hand-waving rather than a historical treatise. Close cover before striking. Void in Arizona, Georgia, and anywhere else with apparent voter fraud.
#FJB
...ready or not.
Amos 4:12 NIV
"Therefore this is what I will do to you, Israel,
and because I will do this to you, Israel,
prepare to meet your God."
And I say (stolen of course, as there is nothing new under the sun) that one does not learn very much without pain or suffering.
(Various t-shirts agree with me.)
Here ya go, Dude!
Well; we all have to BELIEVE in Something!
Even if that belief is in Nothing.
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