WaPo columnist Jennifer Rubin compares the MAGA movement to the Confederacy, says that 'extreme White Christian nationalism' will result in 'violence,

Blaze ^ | 9/8/2022 | Blaze

[Pelham]

“That’s rich....the Confederacy was made up of Democrats!!”

Freepers do love keeping their history as simple as possible. Especially when the make believe version is useful for current political controversies.

Alexander Stephens, CSA VP, had been a Whig from 1836-1851. A Unionist in 1851, and again a Whig in 1853

John Tyler, CSA Congress, had been the 10th US President, one of only four Whigs to ever hold that office.

Judah Benjamin, CSA Secretary of State, Secretary of War, Attorney General, was a Whig until 1856.

The CSA didn’t have political parties. Historians who examined the previous parties of elected officials in the CSA found them to be primarily a mix of Democrats and Cotton Whigs with Democrats holding an edge.

[Monterrosa-24]

And we can add that the famous Condederate raider, John Mosby worked for/with Republicans shortly after the war. And so did General Beauregard.

[Fledermaus]

The Confederates were DEMOCRATS you moron. Slave loving Democrats.

[Fledermaus]

Uncle Children to the crazy left.

[x]

The Liberals have always lived in the Hamptons and Martha's vineyard.

Don't you ever look anything up? A hundred years ago, not many rich people lived in the Hamptons or on Martha's Vineyard or even summered there. It was mostly farmers and fishermen. They weren't liberals. And a hundred years ago the rich people who lived in the summer resorts of the day weren't all liberals either. They were the ones the progressives imposed the income tax on, and a lot of them weren't happy about that.

Even the strongholds of the old Republican party, New York, Boston, Chicago, are still liberal strongholds today.

New York City was a Democrat stronghold in 1860. Chicago was still Lincoln country and Boston was still puritan and abolitionist, but they would follow New York City after the war and vote Democrat.

It was with rural voters in the North that Lincoln was strong. Sure, they welcomed the opportunities created by the Homestead Act, but they weren't looking for special privileges or handouts.

People who did want things from the government could wangle them out of any government, Whig, Democrat, Republican. There was plenty of corruption in the Buchanan administration and the national debt and deficit skyrocketed.

[x]

She’s a nut case. Biden has so messed up the country that hardly anybody’s talking about the Confederacy and Biden’s side were the only ones talking about white supremacy.

[DiogenesLamp]

Wrong, the south overwhelmingly voted for the Socalist Traitor FDR 4 times.

Poor people vote for handouts.

[DiogenesLamp]

A hundred years ago, not many rich people lived in the Hamptons or on Martha's Vineyard or even summered there.

The point is to show it is the same class of people as currently live in all the wealthy estates in the Northeast.

They were the ones the progressives imposed the income tax on, and a lot of them weren't happy about that.

And where was the progressive base? If you had to pick the geographic center of it, where would that have been?

New York City was a Democrat stronghold in 1860. Chicago was still Lincoln country and Boston was still puritan and abolitionist, but they would follow New York City after the war and vote Democrat.

New York had a lot of powerful Democrats in it, but I doubt the Cooper Union address was heard by many of them. Most likely the New York Democrats of 1860 only counted themselves as such for the purpose of looking out for their interests in the Southern export trade.

Their interests did not necessarily coincide with the manufacturing men as well as other titans of industry such as the railroad barons.

But yes, Massachusetts and New York formed a progressive coalition and it has remained such to this present day.

People who did want things from the government could wangle them out of any government, Whig, Democrat, Republican.

Only when they had influence on the majority of congress.

There was plenty of corruption in the Buchanan administration and the national debt and deficit skyrocketed.

But it seemed to reach it's peak under Grant. Why would that be?

[x]

And where was the progressive base? If you had to pick the geographic center of it, where would that have been?

One hundred years ago it was in states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas, and Washington State. It certainly wasn't in New England. Many Southerners had their own version of progressivism. New York was always a big urban state with urban Democrats and some liberal Republicans like Theodore Roosevelt, but New Yorkers didn't much love the income tax imposed by states further South and West.

But yes, Massachusetts and New York formed a progressive coalition and it has remained such to this present day.

That was largely the Kennedys and the general shift of states in the Northeast to the Democrats. Few people would have said that the New England of 1910 or 1920 was especially "progressive," compared to other parts of the country. Penny pinching Yankees were once real. They are all gone now.

But you know, you've been saying the same thing over and over and over for years now. It's even less true now than it was when you started and it's gotten really boring.

[ProgressingAmerica]

“One hundred years ago it was in states like Wisconsin, Minnesota, the Dakotas, and Washington State. It certainly wasn’t in New England.”

Agreed. We have revisionists out there who seek to lay progressivism at the feet of the Puritans, even though there really isn’t any link other than some surface-level wishful thinking. They even have a specific name for it. “The Wisconsin Idea”

The Puritans were the good guys. We should stop running them over with the bus and then throwing the bus in reverse and doing it again.

Just once I’d love to see someone grab the Mayflower Compact and say “see this here? Yes, this right here, this Compact, THAT is the problem.”

No. Wrong. Nope.

As to the topic that was originally posted, I did recently state that I want to do a biography of one Founding Father. But the Christian history of America’s institutions is an even higher priority.

[Pelham]

As did Pete Longstreet

[SunkenCiv]

• Rick Wilson on MSNBC: Someone's Gonna Have To Put a Bullet in Trump's Head [09/08/2022]

[BroJoeK]

cowboyusa: "Wrong, the south overwhelmingly voted for the Socalist Traitor FDR 4 times."

DiogenesLamp: "Poor people vote for handouts."

Right, and that's why we don't need any self-righteous, "more conservative than thou" lectures from Southerners on how they've the "true conservatives" and the rest of us are just lowly left-wing liberals.

It's nonsense -- Southerners are no more or less conservative than any other region.
The only real difference is how many live in big cities, like Atlanta or New Orleans, versus how many live in suburbs, mid-sized to small towns and more rural counties.
Southern states dominated by big cities -- i.e., Atlanta -- can be just as luny-left "progressive" as any Northern or Western state.

[BroJoeK]

Pelham: "There were no political parties in the Confederacy.
Their elected officials were a mix of Democrats and former Cotton Whigs."

CSA VP Alexander Stephens, famous for his Cornerstone Speech, was typical of Southern politicians of the day:

1. Whig Party from 1836 to 1851

2. Unionist Party from 1851 to 1860
   "By this time [1851], Stephens had departed the ranks of the Whig party, its Northern wing generally not amenable to some Southern interests.
   Back in Georgia, Stephens, [Robert] Toombs, and Democratic Representative Howell Cobb formed the Constitutional Union Party...

   "Despite his late arrival in the Democratic Party [1854], Stephens quickly rose through the ranks.
   He even served as President James Buchanan's floor manager in the House during the fruitless battle for the slave state Lecompton Constitution for Kansas Territory in 1857.
   He was instrumental in framing the failed English Bill after it became clear that Lecompton would not pass, in order to negotiate its approval."

3. Constitutional Union from 1860 to 1861

4. Democrat from 1861 until his death in 1882.

Stephens was effectively a Democrat from 1852 on and continued as a Democrat after the war.

The US Civil War was Democrats waging war against the United States, a war which Democrats continue to this day.

[BroJoeK]

ProudDeplorable: "We must remember who the true confederates were during the civil war - Democrats.
Remember the Dixiecrats."

DiogenesLamp: "Stop.
The Republican party of 1860 has the same political philosophy as the modern Democrat party.
The Republican party was the party of Northern Big City tax and spend Liberals."

Sorry, DL, but that is an absolute, total, 100% lie, without even a whiff of truth in it.
Here's the real truth: since roughly the election of 1800 and especially after Martin Van Buren's work in the 1820s, Northern Democrats represented Big City financial/commercial interests allied to corrupt immigrant political machines such as NYC's Tammany Hall.

From the election of 1800 until secession in 1861, Southern & Northern Democrats together ruled Washington , DC, almost continuously, with only brief intervals of opposition party influence.

The election of 1860 was the first time since 1801 that Democrats were completely swept from political power, and it drove them nuts, just as nuts as Donald Trump made them, and as they've been ever since.

DiogenesLamp: "The Democrat party of 1860 was the small government, leave us alone, don't tax us, conservatives.
Even the strongholds of the old Republican party, New York, Boston, Chicago, are still liberal strongholds today."

Still more lies!
In 1860 both New York and Boston elected Democrat mayors and New York's Democrat mayor wanted to join Southerners in secession, his new country to be called the "Free City of Tri-Insula".

From the beginning, Chicago was always more Democrat than Whig or Republican, electing two Democrat mayors for every one opposition party, and elected Democrat mayors in 1858 and 1862.

The truth is that Democrats always were the party of Northern Big Cities and Southern Big Globalized Business -- big plantations organized for massive exports.

And they still are.

The opposition Federalists - Whigs - Republicans were always the party of family farmers, small town business & professionals, constitutionalists, conservative values, national defense, law & order, medium sized cities & suburbs.

And we still are.

[cowboyusa]

There I disagree, the Jacksonian Democrats were for small Government and the common man. The Whigs favored the financial sector. They were Hamiltonian's. MANY Locofoco Democrats joined the GOP, because they hated the slave power. And the foundation of Jacksonianism was UNION.

[BroJoeK]

cowboyusa: "There I disagree, the Jacksonian Democrats were for small Government and the common man.
The Whigs favored the financial sector. They were Hamiltonian's.
MANY Locofoco Democrats joined the GOP, because they hated the slave power.
And the foundation of Jacksonianism was UNION."

Well, first, I agree that Andrew Jackson was an anomaly -- a Democrat who Put Americans First and wanted to Make America Great!
Jackson supported the 1828 Tariff of Abominations so he could pay off the national debt, and threatened South Carolina with military action should it try to succeed.
What a guy!

However, even as early as 1832 when Jackson replaced VP John C. Calhoun from South Carolina with Martin Van Buren from New York City, Democrats were firmly, 100% allied, North and South -- Northern Big City financial & commercial interests plus corrupt immigrant political bosses (i.e., Tammany Hall), allied to Southern Big Business slaveholders.

"The Whig base of support was centered among entrepreneurs, professionals, planters, social reformers, devout Protestants, and the emerging urban middle class.
It had much less backing from poor farmers and unskilled workers."

New York and Boston both elected Democrat mayors in 1860.
Before 1860, Chicago elected Democrats twice as often as Republicans, and elected Democrat mayors in 1858 and 1862.
Philadelphia more often voted Republican, but elected Democrat mayors in 1856 and 1868.
Compare to New Orleans which before 1860 had nine Democrat Mayors, three Whigs and four of other parties.