Posted on 06/22/2022 10:31:03 AM PDT by JOHN ADAMS
I voted for Trump twice, and I’m a lawyer and I played a small role in his challenge to the results. My question for this board is: why shouldn’t we pick a winner? Trump lost. He lost the election and he lost, pathetically, in the post-election challenges. He lost those legal challenges before Trump-appointed judges as well Bush appointees, Obama appointees, and Clinton appointees.
He’s persuaded 40-something percent of the country but not matter what he does, he cannot – can not – persuade more people. He has not done so and will not do so. It may suck, but it’s a fact.
We have to be grownups and face that fact.
To quote Trump himself, speaking about McCain – “he lost. So I never liked him much after that, because I don't like losers."
Don’t we need a winner -- someone who can actually get elected? The principles we espouse – belief in private property, in the right to bear arms, belief in the biology of the human race (XX= female, XY = male); respect for religion; belief in American exceptionalism – these are principles that most Americans believe in. If Trump espouses those principles and can’t get to, never mind above, 50%, don’t we need to pick someone who can?
You’ll say the election was stolen and that we can’t prevent that from happening again unless the crime is unmasked and punished.
Assuming your premise, just ask yourself this: is Trump able to get the crime punished? Really? The answer, you know it, is “no.”
You’ll say it’s because the other side is corrupt and they cheat. I agree with you. We need someone who can DEFEAT them at that game. Trump has proven that he cannot do so. He is what he called McCain: a loser. He lost. He has no way to unlose, because 50% of the country hates his guts and would sooner vote for Mickey Mouse. You may think that’s ridiculous, but you do not have the legal power to make them vote for your guy instead. It just isn’t going to happen.
We’re the grownups. We have to face facts and deal with facts. Just as half the country supported slavery in 1865, so half the country supports slavery now. We have to have a leader who can LEAD those people to a better place. Ronald Reagan could do that.
We should find a leader who can actually LEAD people to that place. That means not only people like us, who already support these principles, but people who can be PERSUADED to support them.
Trump can not do that. He can’t. He doesn’t have the ability to do it.
The New Yorker, which I know all Freepers read religiously and believe every word it says, has an article up savaging DeSantis. As the National Review points out, the article can’t avoid saying he’s very smart, works very hard, is committed to conservative principles. And he wins elections. And he would win in a walk against Brandon. Shouldn’t we be smart and pick, or at least start looking for, a winner?
“and the core problem is that it is impossible in most cases to prove which is which to a legal degree of certainty. “
Especially when judges just dismiss the cases and you don’t have, can’t get, the evidence. Extremely difficult to WIN cases or gets convictions without a judge compelling discovery or issuing search warrants.
Make an argument for why this is wrong.
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Your whole premise is that Trump ‘lost’ the 2020 election, which IMO he did not. He got a lot more than 40% even after the stuffing of ballot boxes. your 40%-slavery support issue does not qualify as an argument since it is not applicable to this discussion
Trying to brand Trump as a ‘loser’ will not sway a lot of Trump supporters, as you can see by the responses on this thread. So while your argument is a house of cards your conclusion has merit but for other reasons.
Trump is old, 77 years old. If elected we get him for at most, four years then back to where we are now. With DeSantis, we get 8 years easily barring any communist/democrat shenanigans’.
If we are smart we also select a vice president who would be electable as POTUS when the time is right. Not a Pence or a Bush
I like Trump as Speaker of the House! 3rd in line but able to control the legislative agenda needed by Ron DeSantis. Sort of the power behind the throne.
I agree with what you’re saying but any action he took, before the election was going to be deemed dictatorial.
He let it play out. And he won convincingly. Dominated, actually. Not thinking or accepting that Republican Governors, etc would be so devious and corrupted.
Think about it, Kemp and Ducey didn’t screw Pres Trump, they screwed you and me and they could care less.
It wasn’t until the late night shenanigans took place.
“He lost those legal challenges before Trump-appointed judges as well Bush appointees, Obama appointees, and Clinton appointees.”
What are the names of the judges who listened to all of the evidence and then ruled against him?
“Lawyers and employees of the nation’s law firms have contributed nearly $17 million to presidential campaigns so far this election cycle and 95% of the total has gone to Democrats, according to the Center for Responsive Politics. President Donald Trump’s campaign has raised just over $785,000 from lawyers and law firms.”
Yeah, the majority of lawyers can FOAD.
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/us-law-week/snubbing-trump-lawyers-doling-more-cash-to-democrats
He’s persuaded 40-something percent of the country but not matter what he does, he cannot – can not – persuade more people.
JOHN ADAMS…..didn’t he get more votes than any other incumbent President before? Didn’t he get 12,000,000 more votes than he did in 2016?
If so, did he convince anyone?
Let’s not forget that president Trump surrounded himself with idiots, traitors and a-holes.
And the OP was one of those people.
I think I just won the thread.
You say you are a lawyer who fought for President Trump.
You can’t be a very good lawyer because not one judge would hear the case.
The problem is-—MANY people will NOT vote for anyone else but President Trump IF he runs. That’s for a primary or the general. Period.
Peace in our lifetime.
Can’t we all just get along?
Yes, the NAZIs did some bad things, but I think this is the worst it’s going to get. (Said many Jews who chose not to flee pre-Holocaust Germany.)
Trump can’t win.
And other self-destructive ideas.
We must not compromise with evil. We must not cave. We must not allow them to win in their morally bankrupt attempts to destroy Trump.
Trump is bigger than Trump. Trump has become an idea. Trump is a movement.
If we cannot win legitimately by voting, we win legitimately in a hot war when the majority of voters (legitimate or not) vote to infringe upon our natural rights. Liberty or death.
No more big-tent, milquetoast, RINO, GOPe compromising.
No more cowtelling to the false narrative of choice at the ballot box.
Trump CAN win because he’s done it.
When Trump declares for 2024, I’ll support him. If and only if someone else has a sufficient track record and following to do better in the primary will I consider supporting another candidate. And only if it’s not a RINO/GOPe candidate.
Thanks, John, for trying to insert some perspective into this narrow echo chamber.
“Trump lost. He lost the election...”
False premise. Trump won. In a landslide.
If you think you are going to find another Republican candidate who will get more votes than the candidate who got the most votes of any Presidential candidate in history, you are mistaken. And if you think a candidate with less appeal than Trump is going to be able to overcome the fraud, you are mistaken again.
Yep. Especially the traitorous Republicans need to learn that the people will not be denied. They will never get another RINO presidential candidate elected if they try to deny Trump his rightful victory. That ship has sailed.
“The problem is-—MANY people will NOT vote for anyone else but President Trump IF he runs. That’s for a primary or the general. Period.”
Yesterday I was opened minded about supporting the 2024 Republican nominee if it was Trump or DeSantis.
However, I’ve changed my mind.
I’m done with the “move on from Trump crowd” permanently and will only vote for Trump.
I’ll be supporting Trump in the primary and general election, regardless of who the republican nominee is.
“I will support whoever the nominee is.”
Screw that. Trump or bust.
Shucks ….. missed a ZOT thread
“We need a guy who can actually BE president.”
So you’re saying you want a Democrat then.
John Adams - I feel your pain! The question is, "How do America 1st Americans who know the 2020 election was stolen by: corrupt democrats, corrupt courts, corrupt media, RINO republicans and anti-America oligarchs overcome the immense array of power and corruption against us?"
I don't have the answer, except to pray, vote and support America 1st candidates.
Our side lacks the power of institutions and money that the left has. Our vote has been disenfranchised by fraud. The republican party and supreme court should be the logical institutions for combating and prosecuting the corruption and fraud that the left perpetuates with impunity. In any other world Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton would be in prison. Institutions which should be putting democrats, slandering and libeling news presidents and oligarchs in prison - run cover for them. Except for a few GOP representatives in government, the republican party has little interest in prosecuting the anti-american criminals in our government and other institutions.
Since little to nothing has been done to stop voter fraud, we will see repeat of 2020 in all future elections.
Well, I say the burden is on you. Pick a winner. If he wins, you picked a winner. If not, you fail.
Fair enough?
Hi.
President Trump may have lost the 2020 election, but 81 million people didn’t vote for Biden.
5.56mm
That means that not only is fraud inevitable, but that most of it will not and cannot be detected or proven in court.
The primary election reform goal should be to minimize absentee and early voting.
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