Posted on 06/07/2022 7:44:11 PM PDT by EinNYC
I needed to make an appointment for a vision exam to get some new glasses. My ophthalmologist now refuses to see me because I have refused to take the clot shot. Another one similarly would not see me for the same reason. I told both of them that I reject THEM for insisting on a procedure which has been shown to have terrible side effects and which does not keep you from catching COVID. Witness the many "break-through" cases in the news. Finally found another one who will see me. Have any fellow FReepers experienced similar exclusions from doctors?
If that ever happens to me, then I guess I don’t go to that doctor anymore.
It would seem to me that refusal of a patient for vaccinatin status is patently illegal. Has there been any lawsuits?
Find another doctor. Typically, there are lots to choose from.
Is there a reason that you chose to cherry pick what was said in this link. The AMA is a wildly liberal organization and in general doesn’t speak for a lot of us — however in the position paper quoted here it does say that urgent or emergent treatments cannot be withheld — so much so obvious. It does give several hypotheticals where it would to be unethical to deny treatment — and in this particular case of the OP, it falls into that bucket.
Did you read the position paper, or just the headline?
As a matter of fact, I did read the entire article. Including this very first sentence…
“In general, no, a physician should not refuse a patient simply because the individual is not vaccinated or declines to be vaccinated.”
As you say; the AMA is a very liberal organization. And if even they admit it would be unethical for a doctor to refuse to see an unvaxxed patient in an ordinary visit - then what is your objection to this point?
Are YOU an ethical doctor? I hope so. I hope that you never had any irrational fears about unvaxxed patients and that you never discriminated against any.
Clever. I suppose you missed sentence 2 - 81 which indicated that a physician may ethically decline to treat based on numerous factors.
I am an extremely ethical doctor and employer. I do not require my staff or employees be vaccinated, and I treat all patients regarding of vaccination status, or even more ethically challenging conundrums. I have treated women who have suffered botched abortions who are critically ill. I have treated all who are in grave condition. I am sure you could not even conceive of the ethical conundrums that exist.
However, I, other physicians and nurses have been wildly abused, assaulted and slandered by many who believe that their right to demand my time and expertise translates into their right to demand what treatments they want. That is also equally untrue. As a physician, I am by law allowed to terminate my relationship with patients who do not follow my advice. While I have never done this, I also find it ironic that you who believe you can force me to treat (again in a nonemergency situation not an emergent situation), you also believe you can demand what kind of treatment. You have no regard or consideration to my freedoms or expertise.
I absolutely agree you are free to seek treatment anywhere you want. And yet for those like you who call us quacks, idiots, Mengele and the other myriad of slanderous and libelous names, why demand we treat you?
Of course, I ma sure yo neither see the irony or the point.
Trust me, we want to treat some you about as much as you want to hear our opinion.
I cannot wait to hear your rejoinder to this. You might as well just throw in the towel, defending your hypocrite stance has no defense.
“However, I, other physicians and nurses have been wildly abused, assaulted and slandered by many who believe that their right to demand my time and expertise translates into their right to demand what treatments they want. That is also equally untrue. As a physician, I am by law allowed to terminate my relationship with patients who do not follow my advice. While I have never done this, I also find it ironic that you who believe you can force me to treat (again in a nonemergency situation not an emergent situation), you also believe you can demand what kind of treatment. You have no regard or consideration to my freedoms or expertise“
A classic strawman argument if ever I saw one. How you managed to move the topic from treating unvaccinated patients to patients using and abusing you and your medical staff is indeed a clear indication that you lost the debate on the original issue.
Then you double down on your pointless argument by falsely accusing me of not believing your straw man, then you triple down by falsely claiming I have no regard or consideration to your freedoms or expertise.
Then you expect me to refute all of this? Seriously. You should know better than to argue in such a manner.
You don’t need an ophthalmologist just to update your prescription for glasses or contacts. An optometrist can handle that just fine.
Not an optician. An optometrist (doctor of optometry). Opticians are just technicians, not professionals.
This is a shame.
I am finding some friends don’t wish to see me for same reason.
Are you in NYC, or is that just Freepname?
You didn’t offer an on point argument
You really argue like a narcissist
Please tell me directly — do you think you are entitled to a physician’s care even if you if you do not agree with his treatment plan? Can you compel a physician to take care of you meaning you are entitled to his services regardless of your compliance or non-compliance with his recommendations? Do you believe you are entitled to compel a physician to administer a treatment plan you demand, that he or she does not feel is proper?
Simply answer the questions....
Thank you
I certainly will. As well as address the lies, accusations and other false notions you have regarding this issue.
First, let's set the stage. This entire debate centered on whether is it ethical to deny routine services to a patient who is unvaccinated.
I said it was unethical. I showed you proof from the AMA that they agreed it was unethical, and you concurred. It would not be ethical for a doctor to turn away a patient from an office visit solely on the basis of not being vaccinated.
Before you deny this, let me call attention to your post 106 where you said "I do not require my staff or employees be vaccinated, and I treat all patients regarding of vaccination status, or even more ethically challenging conundrums."
And my friend; this was all that needed to be said. I made the point, backed it up, and you agreed the point was correct.
But no... You evidently have a bug up your butt and you went off topic, you made a strawman argument by bringing in an unrelated gripe that you doctors "have been wildly abused, assaulted and slandered..."
So What? That complaint had nothing to do with the argument. Then your remarks got personal and nasty. You said you found it "ironic that you who believe you can force me to treat (again in a nonemergency situation not an emergent situation), you also believe you can demand what kind of treatment. You have no regard or consideration to my freedoms or expertise."
Then your angry bitterness against me was expressed this way: "And yet for those like you who call us quacks, idiots, Mengele and the other myriad of slanderous and libelous names, why demand we treat you?"
"Simply answer the questions", you demanded? Sure. Show me my post where I called you a quack, an idiot, Mengele, etc. Show Me!
Show me where I demanded you treat me. You already said you would, based on my nonvaxxed status, so why are you taking a hostile accusatory tone?
Now we move on to your post 111. Again, I remind you that the original point was made by me and accepted by you. In spite of your accusations in post 106.
Please tell me directly — do you think you are entitled to a physician’s care even if you if you do not agree with his treatment plan?
Yes. We've already seen that ethically a doctor must provide care even if the patient and the doctor disagree on treatment. We already know that if a patient does NOT accept and agree to that treatment plan, the doctor no longer has an ethical duty to treat.
Can you compel a physician to take care of you meaning you are entitled to his services regardless of your compliance or non-compliance with his recommendations?
See above answer.
Do you believe you are entitled to compel a physician to administer a treatment plan you demand, that he or she does not feel is proper?
See above answer.
Now before you make any further false allegations about me, or bring up any other strawman arguments, please calm down and figure out what is upsetting you so.
Is it because, as an apparatchik in the medical field, you were compelled to advance the Big Lie regarding vaccines, and now you're lashing out at the "I told you so"'s?
“You can lie about getting the shot. But some places require proof of vaccine.”
I was in the hospital for a non-issue, and they point blank asked me if I was vaxxed, and I said yes. (I work in Hollywood and have my SAG card so my acting skills are impeccable), and these clowns believed me.
I reject your foundation. You are framing an argument falsely or in an attempt to advance your agenda. You are making invalid assumptions and cleverly cherry picking statements exactly as you did with the AMA.
And you did not answer my three questions directly. The entire preamble obviates a direct answer. So you are like an ex wife. You have to be right even when you are in agreement with a statement.
I will no longer respond because you clearly are dedicated to being correct and not engaging in a debate.
I would agree with you but there is no point in both of us being wrong. At least I can debate on the logic and merit of arguments. You choose to be emotional. Have a good evening. As we are at impasse I have other things to do.
I attended a convention last year. The website said attendees must be vaxxed or have a negative Covid test. Lots of CAPS and warnings that this would be rigorously enforced, no exceptions, etc.
So I got my negative test. When I arrived at the convention, nobody asked to see any papers. Didn't even ask if I had been vaxxed or tested negative. Just let me in.
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