Vanity- Was the gun Kyle used legally purchased?

[MrRelevant]

I know he was legally allowed to have a gun that evening but is there still controversy surrounding it’s purchase and sale?

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

Any controversy would be with respect to whomever made the purchase, not Kyle. Whether or not that qualifies as a straw purchase may be a pretty close question because the statute’s first clause is “or”, meaning that “purchasing” it for someone else may be enough even if the other person doesn’t yet “possess” it. Kind of an interesting legal issue, actually.

[absalom01]

Agreed. I have not been able to find the actual state charging documents (probably on PACER, but one does need to work some time), so it’s hard to say how strong the state’s case is.

[blackdog]

"Why are people so fixated on "crossing state lines"? There is nothing intrinsically illegal about taking a rifle across state lines, although states may have different laws"

I still have six pistols from myfathers estate with my brother in New Jersey. I can't legally take receipt of them and drive back home. Six 38 caliber police issue service revolvers from the 1960's.

[chuckles]

You are right, it was a straw purchase even though FR wants to drop the subject. Now the friend has to give/sell the gun to Kyle to make it kosher.

They dropped it because murder is much bigger than arguing over giving someone a birthday present a year later. If Kyle wasn't able to purchase the gun due to felonies against him, I assure you it would be relevant again and the idiots would be screaming still. The term "straw purchase" is usually used to speak about a felon getting someone else to purchase a gun for them because they can't. How many wives buy a gun for their husbands for Christmas? To an ATF guy it's a straw purchase, but taking it to court is a loser. What the ATF is looking for is following the paper trail on ownership by using the yellow forms. If I bought guns for my brother and he was legal, my name would pop up even though my brother may have sold it and the buyer may have sold it already. This is why they want to have all transactions go through FFl people. In Texas, anyone can sell a gun in a WalMart parking lot without a background check. Pisses off the gubmint. They can't forbid you from selling it because that would be a "Taking" of private property by the government without compensation.

[suthener]

“So it was down to the length of the barrel”

Which was totally ridiculous because you are not going to walk in to a licensed gun store and walk out with a gun manufactured with a short barrel. Yes, it could have been modified but nobody ever alleged that.

[Vermont Lt]

I think that the gun was never in Illinois. It was purchased and remained in WI.

[Do_Tar]

I’m surprised they didn’t site him for jaywalking. They do have HD video of him running down the street after all.

[Paal Gulli]

Whether Rittenhouse was in legal possession of the rifle is a separate question from whether it was purchased legally. None of the charges levied addressed the manner of purchase so judge's ruling went nowhere near addressing the OP's question.

At face value it appears to be a gray area. Form 4473's instructions appear to prohibit it, however, there obviously is a historical precedent for a parent buying a firearm primarily for the use of a minor child, else you couldn't educate a minor child in the proper use and maintenance of a firearm. The BATFE can't not be aware this has been going on for -- literally -- centuries and they've not yet raised a hand to try to stop it. And even though it is nowhere stated in the 4473, it's possibile that BATFE has issued a ruling somewhere along the way stating that an adult may buy a firearm for a minor provided the adult remains the primary possessor of the arm until such time as the minor reaches the age of 18 (or 21 in the case of a handgun).

Or not.

[cableguymn]

They held that back. Didn’t want people to think they were piling on with the under age gun charge and all.

[Ol' Dan Tucker]

Apparently Kyle Rittenhouse never took the rifle across state lines until he had to do so when the Kenosha police refused to allow him to turn himself in to them. At that point he went to his home and then to the Antioch police.

Correct. Kyle testified that he tried to go to the Kenosha PD HQ, but that it was surrounded by barricades and he couldn't enter.

So, he took the rifle home, then called Anitoch PD at ~6:30am and turned himself and the rifle in.

[gloryblaze]

Binger said he was going to prosecute Dominic.

[marktwain]

This article details what Dominick Black was charged with, the dates, and why there are no federal charges.

The charging documents in Wisconsin court are linked.

Rittenhouse Case: Wisconsin Weapons Law and the Kenosha Prosecutor

[marktwain]

To an ATF guy it's a straw purchase, but taking it to court is a loser.

No, it is not, because it was never transferred to Kyle in a meaningful way.

It has to be a "substantial" transfer.

Loaning it for a few days is not a "substantial" transfer, certainly not for a few hours.

[DOC44]

WHAT?????

[freeandfreezing]

That sounds like a consequence of NJ or NY laws, not an issue related to crossing state lines.

[alephnull]

I agree. His friend has a real problem with how he answered 21a. There is testimony the firearm was purchased with Kyle’s money and the intent to transfer it to him in the future.

This should have no bearing on Kyle’s trial. His friend should be very concerned.

[marktwain]

You should be able to have all six pistols sent from an FFL in New Jersey to an FFL in your home state, then have the FFL sign them over to you. They could be sent in one package.

New Jersey is one of the nastiest states to deal with in Firearms regulation, so just taking them and driving back is a risk.

The thing to do would be to make arrangements to a local FFL, have them send a copy of their Federal Firearms License (FFL) to an FFL in New Jersey, after arrangements are made with the FFL in New Jersey.

It is sad we have allowed a few states to infringe on our rights in this matter.

[eastexsteve]

He admitted he gave his friend money for the AR15..

This is the one thing that might get his friend into trouble as a straw buyer. If Kyle did not give his friend money to buy the gun, then he would not be a straw buyer.

[blackdog]

Thank you for process advice.

[Road Warrior ‘04]

Pretty sure! It’s cover by 2A!