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Is Secession Legal?
01/19/2020 | Rfreedom4u

Posted on 01/19/2021 4:38:09 PM PST by rfreedom4u

Many people have stated that secession is illegal and not allowed as determined by the American Civil War. But is it really? Throughout the history of the United States our government has supported the independence/secession of states/territories/colonies from various other nations.

Haiti seceded from the French empire through a slave revolt. South Sudan broke from Sudan. Yugoslavia broke into several countries and later Kosovo seceded from Serbia. Czechoslovakia split into two countries. The Soviet split into quite a few countries. The UK left the European Union. And many others….

So why do people say secession is illegal in the United States? There’s nothing in the US Constitution that mentions secession. The Tenth Amendment states “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Using my logic this means that since the issue of secession is not given to the federal government it is reserved to the states or the people themselves to determine. I’ve read the constitution of my own state (Texas) and secession is not mentioned at all. This even furthers my belief that is should be determined by the people.

If I were to join a club and did not like what the club became, I would be well within my rights to quit that club. If I go to see a movie and don’t like it, I can walk out. So why would anyone believe that the United States is a “once you’re in you can’t leave” type of deal? When someone doesn’t like the state in which they live they are free to move to another state or even another country.

If secession/independence/splitting up is supported for other people in the world why is it not ok for citizens of the United States? And yes, I know that politicians are garbage and want to maintain their power and control. So please give me your opinion on whether it is legal or not and why you think that way? But please spare me the “if it’s broke, we don’t run away, we fix it” argument. At this point I am fairly certain that it is not repairable.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: notstatesrights; notthisagain; secession; statesrights; vanity
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To: rfreedom4u

You are missing the whole point of the “union”. The Declaration and the Constitution establish the framework of not just a union of states but of “one people”. It was a vote of the people in ratifying conventions in each new state that created the union. One joined it takes the consent of the whole for a State to depart. You are simultaneously a citizen of your state and of the nation as a whole. Just as one state may not abrogate or diminish your citizenship rights in another state, a state may not abrogate or diminish your national citizenship though secession. Lincoln laid this all out, many times.

There is no constitutional process for dissolving all or part of this union of states and people. A constitutional amendment would have to be enacted that would lay out the process. Good luck with that. Just trying to figure out who absorbs the national debt or how to keep social security payments flowing or how to divide military assets would never be resolved.

You may not be a citizen of California or Texas or Ohio, but as an American you have as much “right” to to those states as anyone else. Equal protection of the law and other federal rights is what you gained in union, having that also granted to all American citizens. That can’t be taken from you by another citizen or a state in any legal manner.


101 posted on 01/19/2021 5:56:41 PM PST by Badboo (It is not science, it is subservience.)
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To: Mr. Jeeves

No one will endure bad optics

All those will be painted as white racist extremists

The media will happily present things this way to the nation

They are doing so already


102 posted on 01/19/2021 5:57:11 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not Averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: DownInFlames

Nope, Lincoln proved might makes right, and that was only in the end. The south should have sued for peace when they had the upper hand.


103 posted on 01/19/2021 5:57:55 PM PST by Kevmo (I'm in a slow motion Red Dawn reality TV show. The tree of liberty is thirsty.)
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To: rfreedom4u

By the 10th amendment secession should be legal. The stupid Confederate attack on Fort Sumter and the resulting civil war of 1861-65 has caused the subject of secession to become legally unclear.


104 posted on 01/19/2021 5:58:01 PM PST by devere
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To: gundog

Germany, Japan


105 posted on 01/19/2021 5:58:48 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not Averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: crz
During the New York ratifying convention in 1788, which narrowly voted for ratification, someone wrote to Madison to the effect that New York might ratify on the proviso that a Bill of Rights be added (but then repeal the ratification if it wasn't), but Madison wrote that a ratification could not be rescinded. (Don't remember the exact terms used, but to that effect.)

I believe that during the first week of the first meeting of Congress in 1789, a Congressman from South Carolina threatened secession.

During the War of 1812 there was sentiment for secession in the New England states.

106 posted on 01/19/2021 5:59:04 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: rfreedom4u

TEXAS can.


107 posted on 01/19/2021 5:59:47 PM PST by mabarker1 ((Congress- the opposite of PROGRESS!!! A fraud, a hypocrite, a liar. I'm a member of Congress !!!!)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I meant certain states in the early years of the nation, they werent colonies anymore


108 posted on 01/19/2021 6:01:04 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not Averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: sasquatch

Nope.

But they did try to work within the system for about 3-4 decades and it just kept getting worse and worse for them.


109 posted on 01/19/2021 6:02:55 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not Averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: rockrr
The Constitution doesn’t say either way but SCOTUS ruled that unilateral secession is unconstitutional.

You do see the contradiction there don't you?

110 posted on 01/19/2021 6:03:07 PM PST by SeeSharp
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To: Alberta's Child
Congressman Lincoln would have had President Lincoln thrown in jail for his conduct as President; the congressman told anyone who listened to his campaign speeches that secession was absolutely a right held by the states.

Virginia, New York, and Rhode Island would never have ratified the Constitution without assurance that each of them had the right of secession.

111 posted on 01/19/2021 6:03:41 PM PST by Captain Walker ("More things are wrought by prayer than this world dreams of." - Alfred Lord Tennyson)
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To: drjimmy
We are ALL colonies now, competing against the illegal colonization of folks who care nothing about our constitutional rights other than what they can take in the form of benefits to themselves.


112 posted on 01/19/2021 6:03:48 PM PST by Kevmo (I'm in a slow motion Red Dawn reality TV show. The tree of liberty is thirsty.)
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To: Alberta's Child

That is how it’s implemented NOW, but when the concept was SOLD, they were sovereign nations and that is what the treaties say.


113 posted on 01/19/2021 6:05:33 PM PST by Kevmo (I'm in a slow motion Red Dawn reality TV show. The tree of liberty is thirsty.)
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To: rfreedom4u

Sometimes if you ask the wrong question you get the wrong answer.

This is a classic example—really dumb and irrelevant question...

If a state secedes, the lawyers will be the least of their worries. :-(


114 posted on 01/19/2021 6:06:18 PM PST by cgbg (A kleptocracy--if they can keep it.)
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To: Badboo

People are citizens of the states they live in

And because they are citizens of hose states they are ciizens of the usa

The founders held this view overwhelmingly, the union was mentioned second, they were virginians, and new yorkers, and pennslyvanians, and also because of that, citizens of the unted stages


115 posted on 01/19/2021 6:06:29 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not Averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Alberta's Child

Right now there are millions of Americans like myself who are looking for cheap places to retire and not get harassed by the guvmint. These reservations would represent a perfect intersection of cooperative wills. But the Indian Nations have the right to exclude you and me from living there on the basis of how many drops of blood in your veins is injun blood. Sovereign nations. Otherwise, such a thing would be considered extremely racist.


116 posted on 01/19/2021 6:08:47 PM PST by Kevmo (I'm in a slow motion Red Dawn reality TV show. The tree of liberty is thirsty.)
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To: Yashcheritsiy
Secession is legal if you can exercise the power, military or otherwise, to make it stick.

Even if every American secessionist lived in the same state they wouldn't have the power necessary to force a vote on the issue in any state legislature. There is just no popular support for secession in the United states.

117 posted on 01/19/2021 6:09:09 PM PST by mac_truck (aide toi et dieu t'aidera)
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To: rfreedom4u

If I remember my history correctly that disagreement is settled by bullets.


118 posted on 01/19/2021 6:14:20 PM PST by joshua c (Jan 20th is Dump Day. Dump them all. Twitter, Facebook, Google, Amazon, cable tv etc)
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To: Alberta's Child

+1


119 posted on 01/19/2021 6:17:37 PM PST by Kevmo (I'm in a slow motion Red Dawn reality TV show. The tree of liberty is thirsty.)
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To: Meatspace

How do ya figure?


120 posted on 01/19/2021 6:18:33 PM PST by Kevmo (I'm in a slow motion Red Dawn reality TV show. The tree of liberty is thirsty.)
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