Posted on 06/05/2020 7:36:06 AM PDT by George from New England
What is the law on purchase of new merchandise that ships defective?
Please avoid bashing me because I use the sun.
I just purchased a solar hybrid inverter from a distributor in MA for $3000. I am in FL.
It does not perform correctly (as defined by an earlier model I already have that does work right)
By email the company admits to a defect in the original release. It was shipped in version 1.00.00 of the firmware. The product claims a 10 year warranty.
To fix the defect the company tells me to upgrade the firmware to version 1.3.0
That cannot be done without the purchase of another $500 accessory. The previous accessory model I currently use for my earlier model they have locked out of the interface claiming some new California regulation.
So I then tell them to send a tech for the warranty service and they do the upgrade. "No...this model does not come with field service."
175 lbs to ship back 1200 miles is not an option.
They have 7 more of these inverters to sell to other unsuspecting buyers still on their shelves.
When does a company cross the line and perform fraud on the buyer ?
It also appears the warranty requires the accessory purchase but is hidden in the sales process.
Rockwell RS Logix 5000 processors can be running anywhere from 19.02 to 24.04. You replace a drive, safety switch, or output module and suddenly your machine won’t work! That’s because all those sub-system parts also need to match the needed version of your main processor. Stuff gets made so fast and gets so many engineering updates and fixes in firmware and software that it changes every month.
Sorry, but this is why we should always buy over the internet to save money and get the latest equipment. It makes suing the seller so interesting! Never buy from a local business that you can just take to small claims court.
If enough people do this we can finally be rid of all local businesses and just have the internet and a few big box store chains.
At least you did the right thing, whatever it may cost.
If items are from China the complaints get filed. (trash can)
If you paid by credit card, dispute the charge ASAP.
There is likely a time limit set by the credit card company. Maybe 30 days. But it might be extended due to fraud. Also, some credit cards offer free buyer-protection warranties on purchases, but you may have to file something to activate the warranty.
If the company knowingly sent you a defective unit that requires $500 to fix, then you never received what you ordered and it is a bait & switch.
You have the company over a barrel if you are within the credit card dispute window.
1) Negotiate to obtain the add on to upgrade the firmware yourself, and then return it per agreement. They should agree to cover the cost of shipping both ways.
2) Buy the add on to upgrade and then if you still feel it is worth the time, sue them for your added expenses due to nondisclosure that the item did not ship with the correct firmware. Make sure everything is documented since they may make it appear that the failure was your fault.
I think if you just ship it back, you lose the shipping costs and your time and probably a restock fee on top of that. Hard to sue them for that since you knew going in that you would lose money.
If you could prove in court that the seller knowingly and willfully failed to disclose material information to you during the sale, then you MIGHT have a case for fraudulent misrepresentation.
That said, if the only way to upgrade the device firmware is with the additional bit of hardware, you should buy it and get over it. You’re going to get more firmware updates over the life of the inverter, and you’re going to want to apply them. So, even if you COULD get them to update the firmware for you this time, there will be a next time when they won’t.
When you decide to buy over the internet and DIY, you take on a lot of additional and direct responsibilities that might otherwise be assumed by a local dealer/installer - whether for a fee or not. This is one of those times: you didn’t know, and the seller didn’t tell you. A local installer would have taken care of you as part of the install and commissioning.
The business I’m in has a lot of internet sellers - both authorized by the device manufacturers, and also a slew of unauthorized sellers. We constantly have people contacting us for support on devices they bought elsewhere. We’re happy to help - for a fee. If they don’t like this, we tell them they can call Amazon, eBay, or whatever seller to get support. They then tell us they’re not able to get any knowledgeable help from them. So, we suggest they return the product to the seller, and buy from us - then our support would be included. The ones I feel a little bit bad for are the ones who purchased from an unauthorized seller, and therefore have either no warranty, or a significantly diminished one.
On the internet, it truly is “buyer beware”, and it’s getting worse through time.
‘Law of the jungle rules” Caveat Emptor! (Always)
On this transaction I have written quote at 10 am that day.
I have recorded audio where he checks and gets verbal ‘that it will work together’ etc From 1015 that day. So he is confirming the unit on the quote, minutes earlier, will work with my old one.
I doubt c/c company wants to bother with details
Gotcha thanks.
Your first problem was falling for the solar salesman’s Bull-shiite.
This approach supplies power to my house and 3 tenants when the grid goes down. Being in Florida we run it when lightning starts hitting everything tall. Pine trees are beautiful lightning rods !!
What I am most pissed at is they are forcing the world’s customers to adhere to crap regulation out of California.
Use the sun! It is free and a step to self sufficiency.
I make purchases with my credit card and if I get ripped off, the card company settles it for me.
This is a trancript of a phone order from 3 weeks ago.
If any freeper would care to comment on the likelyhood of a credit card reversal based herein ?
May 29, 2020
9:49 am George called altEstore.com
00:45 “to assure quality service, this call maybe monitored or recorded” recorded voice
01:20 “this is Ben can I help you.”
“xantrex sw6848” George
02:08 “have 27 in stock in Mass.” Ben
03:00 “ben@altestore.com” Ben
“a month or less old” Ben
“let me check for the Pro” Ben
“have 8 or the Pro’s in stock” Ben
“Is there anything I am giving up?” George
“No, in fact its an upgrade.” Ben
09:54 “I have a 4548” George
09:59 “Oh yeah, I used to own the same one.” Ben
10:18 “I’m worried if I buy this new one from you and I want to operate them in parallel, that I might have issues” George
11:12 “We actually have our own internal schneider/electric tech support, I can ask them if you can hold on a little.”Ben
(silence for a minute)
13:45 “I did get a reply and he is looking into it” Ben Farmer
15:18 “ok, both must be fully updated with the latest firmware” Ben
15:25 “oh ! So that means yes they can be paired, you just have to get the latest firmware on the 4548, upload it, you have to work with Schneider on that, but ...” Ben
15:41 “ok, then you’d be good to go.” Ben
I posted that because the manuf. says the two units will not work together or in parallel.
Do I have a legal stand?
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