Posted on 05/10/2020 6:06:59 PM PDT by bort
Sorry, too hard to read without better formatting. :)
Let me guess, your paralegal stole your paragraphs.
PC = Probable Cause ... took a while to find that
Lawyer or not, nothing happened that justified running this guy down.
Call the cops. Take a video. Follow the guy. The cops would find him.
He was not posing a threat to anyone. He certainly was not posing a threat to anyone’s life.
The use of force in this case is not warranted in any “reasonable man” theory.
We are dancing around the entire issue here. These were two rednecks that did not like the black guy in their neighborhood. It got out of hand.
What they did was wrong. I wish I could be on the jury. None of your legal issues matter.
2) Did a citizen's arrest even occur? To be an arrest, a person must SUBMIT to a show of authority. There was no "arrest" in this case. In GA, it is legal to carry a shotgun down the street. There are many facts that need to be known (the video is unclear if the younger McMichael pointed the gun at any time). BTW, it is SILLY to claim that one must SEE the crime in order to arrest. The police, who are bound by the same standard as citizens for most cases, virtually never see the crime because they arrive after the fact. This is a case by case basis, but if one is told of a crime that is in the process of being committed or was just committed, that is enough.
3) Probable Cause. In GA, PC to arrest is the same standard for police as it is for citizens. PC is a very slight standard. In this case, there is overwhelming PC that Arbery was committing a crime within the knowledge of McMichael. The dad told the cops that he was "in his yard" when he observed Arbery "hauling ass", and he told 911 that he saw the suspect with his own eyes. The McMichaels live 50 yards away or less. The home under construction had been burgled several times; Arbery was recognized as the prior burglar by McMichael,who had scene Arbery on his street and on video; it was a Sunday when construction workers wouldn't be on site; Arbery SPRINTED from the property. When McMichael shouted "stop" while in his yard, Arbery kept running. Any judge would find a strong presumption that a stranger who bolts out the door of a previously burgled home was up to no good. At a minimum, he was trespassing, but there was almost certainly PC to believe he was stealing stuff (or attempting to steal). Finally, PC does NOT mean that a crime had to ACTUALLY have been committed. For example, my neighbor wakes me up and claims she was raped by a guy who just ran up the street. I chase him down and arrest him as a citizen. The rape complaint, however, was a phony complaint. Did I commit a crime? NO. I had PC.
4) Jurys do NOT like to be lied to, and southern juries don't like to be insulted by New York/DC media. It is obvious that Arbery was not a "jogger." He is scene now in multiple videos wearing sagging pants, a belt, a shirt that you would wear to the mall, etc. I have dealt with hundreds of black male clients and have coached hundreds of black male athletes--black guys do NOT jog, unless they work for Fortune 500 companies. And black guys (and white guys) in rural areas ALMOST NEVER jog. There was probably a higher chance of Arbery being a ballet dancer than a runner. The locals know this, and they know that Arbery's legal team have stirred up unnecessary racial strife. Glynn County, GA is 75/25 white/black, which means the jury pool will likely be 85/15, so this case may be heard by an all-white or nearly all-white jury. These folks are PISSED right now. They can relate to the McMichaels. I always try to "know my jury." Trust me, when the national media is calling him a "jogger" while everyone at the local diner in Brunswick knows that he and his family are dog shit.... and they are calling these defendants "racists" "white supremacists," and guys "hunting down a black jogger." I would bet on the DEFENSE if I were in Vegas.
5) As is typical, everyone posts comments that are typically "in theory." Let me tell you the reality--the first outside DA cleared these guys, a fact that will be ADMISSIBLE in court. Trust me, if the defense attorneys have any brains, they will say: "Gosh, the local DA said they are innocent, but the slick suits from Atlanta, who came down here to stop a riot, in a matter of an hour determined they were guilty."
6) Finally, I don't think the younger McMichael committed a crime, because Arbery ran 14 feet straight at him and grabbed the shotgun before it was fired. However, I could see how a good-faith prosecutor could--with a straight face--charge him with murder. It's weak, but not a crazy charge. But the Dad? WTF. He didn't draw his pistol until shots had went off. This is a fact that will convince the jury that these guys are being railroaded.
7) If one more person posts "the wannabe cops shouldn't have went after Abery" I'm going to puke. The issue isn't whether what they did is what you would have done. The issue is: Did they break the law. Answer: No, they didnt' Please feel free to ask questions. I'm trying to be helpful.
If Arbery was armed (legally) and had killed one or both of these guys when they accosted him on the street, would that be a legitimate case of self defense?
No offense, but I’m presuming these two guys are guilty as hell simply because the father was a former investigator for the prosecutor’s office. I trust law enforcement officers even less than I trust burglary suspects these days.
Citizen’s Arrest-—I have read the GA statute on citizens arrest and case law. In GA, it appears that one can be arrested by a private citizen for EITHER a misdemeanor or a felony if the citizen actually witnesses the crime or if it occurred “within their knowledge.” There are multiple cases in GA that involve MISDEMEANOR citizen arrests. So the standard is whether the McMichaels had probable cause that ANY crime had been committed “within their knowledge.”
2) Did a citizen’s arrest even occur? To be an arrest, a person must SUBMIT to a show of authority. There was no “arrest” in this case. In GA, it is legal to carry a shotgun down the street. There are many facts that need to be known (the video is unclear if the younger McMichael pointed the gun at any time). BTW, it is SILLY to claim that one must SEE the crime in order to arrest. The police, who are bound by the same standard as citizens for most cases, virtually never see the crime because they arrive after the fact. This is a case by case basis, but if one is told of a crime that is in the process of being committed or was just committed, that is enough.
3) Probable Cause. In GA, PC to arrest is the same standard for police as it is for citizens. PC is a very slight standard. In this case, there is overwhelming PC that Arbery was committing a crime within the knowledge of McMichael. The dad told the cops that he was “in his yard” when he observed Arbery “hauling ass”, and he told 911 that he saw the suspect with his own eyes. The McMichaels live 50 yards away or less. The home under construction had been burgled several times; Arbery was recognized as the prior burglar by McMichael,who had scene Arbery on his street and on video; it was a Sunday when construction workers wouldn’t be on site; Arbery SPRINTED from the property. When McMichael shouted “stop” while in his yard, Arbery kept running. Any judge would find a strong presumption that a stranger who bolts out the door of a previously burgled home was up to no good. At a minimum, he was trespassing, but there was almost certainly PC to believe he was stealing stuff (or attempting to steal). Finally, PC does NOT mean that a crime had to ACTUALLY have been committed. For example, my neighbor wakes me up and claims she was raped by a guy who just ran up the street. I chase him down and arrest him as a citizen. The rape complaint, however, was a phony complaint. Did I commit a crime? NO. I had PC.
4) Jurys do NOT like to be lied to, and southern juries don’t like to be insulted by New York/DC media. It is obvious that Arbery was not a “jogger.” He is scene now in multiple videos wearing sagging pants, a belt, a shirt that you would wear to the mall, etc. I have dealt with hundreds of black male clients and have coached hundreds of black male athletes—black guys do NOT jog, unless they work for Fortune 500 companies. And black guys (and white guys) in rural areas ALMOST NEVER jog. There was probably a higher chance of Arbery being a ballet dancer than a runner. The locals know this, and they know that Arbery’s legal team have stirred up unnecessary racial strife. Glynn County, GA is 75/25 white/black, which means the jury pool will likely be 85/15, so this case may be heard by an all-white or nearly all-white jury. These folks are PISSED right now. They can relate to the McMichaels. I always try to “know my jury.” Trust me, when the national media is calling him a “jogger” while everyone at the local diner in Brunswick knows that he and his family are dog shit.... and they are calling these defendants “racists” “white supremacists,” and guys “hunting down a black jogger.” I would bet on the DEFENSE if I were in Vegas.
5) As is typical, everyone posts comments that are typically “in theory.” Let me tell you the reality—the first outside DA cleared these guys, a fact that will be ADMISSIBLE in court. Trust me, if the defense attorneys have any brains, they will say: “Gosh, the local DA said they are innocent, but the slick suits from Atlanta, who came down here to stop a riot, in a matter of an hour determined they were guilty.”
6) Finally, I don’t think the younger McMichael committed a crime, because Arbery ran 14 feet straight at him and grabbed the shotgun before it was fired. However, I could see how a good-faith prosecutor could—with a straight face—charge him with murder. It’s weak, but not a crazy charge. But the Dad? WTF. He didn’t draw his pistol until shots had went off. This is a fact that will convince the jury that these guys are being railroaded.
7) If one more person posts “the wannabe cops shouldn’t have went after Abery” I’m going to puke. The issue isn’t whether what they did is what you would have done. The issue is: Did they break the law. Answer: No, they didnt’ Please feel free to ask questions. I’m trying to be helpful.
My first thought when I heard this was that there has to be more to it. The narrative is too neat and tidy. A jogger minding his own business, and two racist rednecks kill him for no reason other than they are racists.
Thanks for your take on it. I will continue to follow this with an open mind.
Thank you. Trust me, I did not intend to post a run-on paragraph!
Thank you. Racist, or not, is not the issue. They should have left him alone and not chased him. It LOOKS racist.
Sorry counselor, your clients are guilty. Now, learn to write.
Good question, and it largely turns on some facts we don’t know. I can’t tell what the younger McMichael was doing with the shotgun. Would make a difference if he pointed it at the suspect. Two principles are at issue:
1) A citizen’s arrest, if properly predicated, must be done with reasonable force. So, if I try to arrest someone who is egging my house, I can’t point a gun at him. If I think he was breaking into my car, more force could be used.
2) If an arrest is UNLAWFUL, Arbery could use force to resist the arrest. His use of force must be reasonable as well. The same standards as #1 would apply.
IDK but Joe Horn here in Texas shot 2 burglars next door escaping and the Castle Law protected him. This guy was seen on a video going into a newly constructed house and then running away.
Sorry, in Texas as far as I’m concerned it’s a good shoot. Especially the video that shows the suspect charging the civilian and trying to take his gun.
Sorry, I’d no bill this in a second.
The police report has multiple additional witnesses, which will help to find the appropriate answers.
I’m Arbery, and two dudes in a pickup truck chase me down a street. How the hell am I supposed to know they’re “arresting” me instead of abducting and robbing me?
Well gosh, thanks so much! I didn’t real the jury had deliberated this case so quickly.
Georgia man charged with killing Ahmaud Arbery previously investigated him
McMichael, 64, a former Glynn County cop who worked as an investigator in the Brunswick DA’s office, helped prosecute Arbery in the past, Barnhill said.
“A jogger”
The facts show he was no jogger.
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