Sorry, too hard to read without better formatting. :)
Let me guess, your paralegal stole your paragraphs.
PC = Probable Cause ... took a while to find that
Lawyer or not, nothing happened that justified running this guy down.
Call the cops. Take a video. Follow the guy. The cops would find him.
He was not posing a threat to anyone. He certainly was not posing a threat to anyone’s life.
The use of force in this case is not warranted in any “reasonable man” theory.
We are dancing around the entire issue here. These were two rednecks that did not like the black guy in their neighborhood. It got out of hand.
What they did was wrong. I wish I could be on the jury. None of your legal issues matter.
If Arbery was armed (legally) and had killed one or both of these guys when they accosted him on the street, would that be a legitimate case of self defense?
No offense, but I’m presuming these two guys are guilty as hell simply because the father was a former investigator for the prosecutor’s office. I trust law enforcement officers even less than I trust burglary suspects these days.
Citizen’s Arrest-—I have read the GA statute on citizens arrest and case law. In GA, it appears that one can be arrested by a private citizen for EITHER a misdemeanor or a felony if the citizen actually witnesses the crime or if it occurred “within their knowledge.” There are multiple cases in GA that involve MISDEMEANOR citizen arrests. So the standard is whether the McMichaels had probable cause that ANY crime had been committed “within their knowledge.”
2) Did a citizen’s arrest even occur? To be an arrest, a person must SUBMIT to a show of authority. There was no “arrest” in this case. In GA, it is legal to carry a shotgun down the street. There are many facts that need to be known (the video is unclear if the younger McMichael pointed the gun at any time). BTW, it is SILLY to claim that one must SEE the crime in order to arrest. The police, who are bound by the same standard as citizens for most cases, virtually never see the crime because they arrive after the fact. This is a case by case basis, but if one is told of a crime that is in the process of being committed or was just committed, that is enough.
3) Probable Cause. In GA, PC to arrest is the same standard for police as it is for citizens. PC is a very slight standard. In this case, there is overwhelming PC that Arbery was committing a crime within the knowledge of McMichael. The dad told the cops that he was “in his yard” when he observed Arbery “hauling ass”, and he told 911 that he saw the suspect with his own eyes. The McMichaels live 50 yards away or less. The home under construction had been burgled several times; Arbery was recognized as the prior burglar by McMichael,who had scene Arbery on his street and on video; it was a Sunday when construction workers wouldn’t be on site; Arbery SPRINTED from the property. When McMichael shouted “stop” while in his yard, Arbery kept running. Any judge would find a strong presumption that a stranger who bolts out the door of a previously burgled home was up to no good. At a minimum, he was trespassing, but there was almost certainly PC to believe he was stealing stuff (or attempting to steal). Finally, PC does NOT mean that a crime had to ACTUALLY have been committed. For example, my neighbor wakes me up and claims she was raped by a guy who just ran up the street. I chase him down and arrest him as a citizen. The rape complaint, however, was a phony complaint. Did I commit a crime? NO. I had PC.
4) Jurys do NOT like to be lied to, and southern juries don’t like to be insulted by New York/DC media. It is obvious that Arbery was not a “jogger.” He is scene now in multiple videos wearing sagging pants, a belt, a shirt that you would wear to the mall, etc. I have dealt with hundreds of black male clients and have coached hundreds of black male athletes—black guys do NOT jog, unless they work for Fortune 500 companies. And black guys (and white guys) in rural areas ALMOST NEVER jog. There was probably a higher chance of Arbery being a ballet dancer than a runner. The locals know this, and they know that Arbery’s legal team have stirred up unnecessary racial strife. Glynn County, GA is 75/25 white/black, which means the jury pool will likely be 85/15, so this case may be heard by an all-white or nearly all-white jury. These folks are PISSED right now. They can relate to the McMichaels. I always try to “know my jury.” Trust me, when the national media is calling him a “jogger” while everyone at the local diner in Brunswick knows that he and his family are dog shit.... and they are calling these defendants “racists” “white supremacists,” and guys “hunting down a black jogger.” I would bet on the DEFENSE if I were in Vegas.
5) As is typical, everyone posts comments that are typically “in theory.” Let me tell you the reality—the first outside DA cleared these guys, a fact that will be ADMISSIBLE in court. Trust me, if the defense attorneys have any brains, they will say: “Gosh, the local DA said they are innocent, but the slick suits from Atlanta, who came down here to stop a riot, in a matter of an hour determined they were guilty.”
6) Finally, I don’t think the younger McMichael committed a crime, because Arbery ran 14 feet straight at him and grabbed the shotgun before it was fired. However, I could see how a good-faith prosecutor could—with a straight face—charge him with murder. It’s weak, but not a crazy charge. But the Dad? WTF. He didn’t draw his pistol until shots had went off. This is a fact that will convince the jury that these guys are being railroaded.
7) If one more person posts “the wannabe cops shouldn’t have went after Abery” I’m going to puke. The issue isn’t whether what they did is what you would have done. The issue is: Did they break the law. Answer: No, they didnt’ Please feel free to ask questions. I’m trying to be helpful.
My first thought when I heard this was that there has to be more to it. The narrative is too neat and tidy. A jogger minding his own business, and two racist rednecks kill him for no reason other than they are racists.
Thanks for your take on it. I will continue to follow this with an open mind.
Sorry counselor, your clients are guilty. Now, learn to write.
IDK but Joe Horn here in Texas shot 2 burglars next door escaping and the Castle Law protected him. This guy was seen on a video going into a newly constructed house and then running away.
Sorry, in Texas as far as I’m concerned it’s a good shoot. Especially the video that shows the suspect charging the civilian and trying to take his gun.
Sorry, I’d no bill this in a second.
The police report has multiple additional witnesses, which will help to find the appropriate answers.
> I have dealt with hundreds of black male clients and have coached hundreds of black male athletes—black guys do NOT jog, unless they work for Fortune 500 companies.
What about the Marathon runners from Africa?
Thank you for your efforts to give us your perspective on this case.
I have stayed away from the threads on it because I could see it becoming very divisive.
Some have already convicted them in their minds.
well, i’m curious because i know how the left will try to use this case. and i’ve seen some wild/emotional comments flying around. i come with an open mind, but am a science guy, not a criminal justice type. i was able to read your conclusion. maybe someone can reformat. like your level of experience.
Thank you for posting. My test for a story like this is: Would this be news if the races were reversed? Sadly, the answer is almost always No!
> If one more person posts “the wannabe cops shouldn’t have went after Abery” I’m going to puke. <
Sorry, but when you post stuff like that, it’s hard to take you seriously. It’s condescending, and inappropriate. Where posters are wrong, correct them. But don’t be condescending.
I know next to nothing about the law. But I know quite a bit about Relativity, and Quantum Physics. I’ve taught college courses on those subjects. And sometimes Freepers post things about those subjects that are just plain wrong. I then post corrections. But I never felt like puking.
Sorry if I come off as harsh here. What I’m trying to say is this. Cut the amateurs some slack.
>>Let me tell you the reality—the first outside DA cleared these guys, a fact that will be ADMISSIBLE in court. Trust me, if the defense attorneys have any brains, they will say: “Gosh, the local DA said they are innocent, but the slick suits from Atlanta, who came down here to stop a riot, in a matter of an hour determined they were guilty.”
The media and authorities seem ok with it that a lynch mob is calling for the arrest on murder charges of all 3 men “in” the video. I still have not been told what crime the videographer committed. I have seen articles reporting that he is receiving anonymous death threats. So those claiming that some lynch mob seeking “vigilante justice” are now a lynch mob seeking vigilante justice themselves.
>> However, I could see how a good-faith prosecutor could—with a straight face—charge him with murder. It’s weak, but not a crazy charge.
Murder or manslaughter?
If a lawyer wrote this mishmash of jargon, he should find another profession. I’d have fired him on the spot.
I did not know you could do a citizen's arrest for a misdemeanor in Georgia; that is very helpful.
It is also clear that the first shot occurred while the younger McMichael and Arbery were screened from the camera by the truck.
I did not see any indication the shotgun was ever pointed at Arbery before he charged at McMichael; he rounded the corner of the truck while running.
It appeared to me that the younger McMichael was screened from seeing Arbery by the truck until just before Arbery rounded the corner.
Therefore, the chance of McMichael pointing the shotgun at Arbery before Arbery charged at him would have a very narrow window, probably less than a half a second.
Forensic evidence of the video might show something. It seems unlikely.
Thank you for clarifying that no arrest took place. It is a point I have been making.