Groundbreaking study: Ancient tin ingots found in Israel were mined in England

Times of Israel ^ | 16 September 2019 | Amanda Borschel-Dan

[D Rider]

Thanks for the correction.

[Conan the Librarian]

And we all say ‘NI!’ to you!

[AlmaKing]

Yes, I care. It’s more anti-Christian crap that you are on board with. Christian intolerance has become common on this site.

[D_Idaho]

“And did those feet in ancient times,
walk upon England’s mountains green...”

[SunkenCiv]

No, trolling with the same old same old tired old BS about BCE vs BC in science and history topics has always been common on this site.

[SunkenCiv]

My pleasure.

[Flag_This]

I thought the British Isles were also known as the Tin Isles, but I have no idea how far back that name goes.

[SunkenCiv]

As null and void pointed out, uh, up there somewhere, the ancient Greek name was the Cassiterides, which may mean Lead Islands, since (seems odd) apparently they had no separate word for lead.

[jimtorr]

BCE is hardly anti-christian. The Common Era to which it refers begins with the birth of the Christ. It’s merely a polite device to allow non-christians to use the common dating without having to directly name the source. They still know what it means.

[litehaus]

“Sven”.....Dang Norsk / vikings get around too much...LOL

[skepsel]

Not only trolling but sententious, canting and Pecksniffian trolling to boot!

[Sequoyah101]

What I want to know is how did someone figure out the proper composition of the alloy of Bronze? Generating enough heat to melt the components together let alone in the proper proportions was no small feat. How did it ever occur to someone that an alloy could be of use at all? How long must it have all taken from the first inkling that it could be done until the time something useful in quantity could be produced?

[xzins]

I always say Before Christian Era: BCE

[minnesota_bound]

Zoom in on the axe and I bet it says “Made in Wisconsin” : )
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Copper_Complex

[Harmless Teddy Bear]

I’m fascinated by Otzi’s Copper axe. Could it have come from Wisconsin?

Why would they sail half way around the world to mine copper when copper was right in their back yard?

Cassiterite was worth traveling for as it is relatively rare.

[Paal Gulli]

In the “Declaration of Arbroath,” the Kings of Scotland claimed to be descended from Israelite royalty. And if enough people go from Judea to Scotland (or vice-versa), chances are some of them will pass through England.

They claimed the Stone of Scone/Stone of Destiny (on which all Kings of Scotland were crowned until Edward the Long Shanks stole it) was the Stone of Jacob referenced in Genesis.

Every historic link between Scotland and the Holy Lands further increases the odds of goods from England traveling to Judea.

[SunkenCiv]

Bronze Age keyword (didn't know FR was that old!), chrono sorted:

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[Bob Ireland]

***researchers have debated the origin of tin used in ubiquitous precious bronze throughout the Levant during the eponymous era, from the late fourth and third millennia BCE***

Indeed this subject has sometimes been heated. You might be aware of The God-kings & Titans by James Bailey. He argues trans-Atlantic commerce in pre-Columbian times including possibly during the Bronze Age.

I contacted Scott Wolter (forensic geologist - ???) - America Unearthed (History Channel) - a few years ago when he documented extensive ancient tin mines in the Great Lakes region to investigate Bailey's claims that there was not enough tin available to the European - Levant - Mesopotamian region and their prolific use of Bronze implements without considering the Great Lakes source.

Wolter seemed more interested in disproving the divinity of Jesus Christ. We may never get a positive answer 'yes' or 'no'.

Of course Bailey's theory is controversial. I tend to think that the validity of his theory is inescapable - but needs much more research to establish any sort of proof.

[Grimmy]

What I want to know is how did someone figure out the proper composition of the alloy of Bronze? Generating enough heat to melt the components together let alone in the proper proportions was no small feat. How did it ever occur to someone that an alloy could be of use at all? How long must it have all taken from the first inkling that it could be done until the time something useful in quantity could be produced?

**************

Not trying to be a smart arse or any such, but I often wonder how many developments like that were the result of a severe manic episode by a bi-polar sufferer.

Some o’ this some o’ that some o’ that there and More! Fire!

[SunkenCiv]

Scott Wolter is a TV personality who also has some training that is inappropriate for the stuff he purports to do. He thought the lead crosses in NM were ancient, and they aren't. MOre generally, he never cites or even seems to look at, or even be aware of, earlier work on anomalous artifacts done by others. OTOH, he's often entertaining, and he manages to get video of artifacts/inscriptions/fakes that I'd previously only read about. His "templar cross" crap gets on my nerves -- like a lot of fringe authors, he's an example of "when your only tool is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail." :^)

I don't doubt that the oceans and seas have ever been seen as anything but a transportation system and source of food, going back a long, long way. During certain eras (and probably dependent on the climate conditions as well as economic ones) there was probably a considerable amount of seagoing commerce.

It's not as if there's a newspaper morgue for the Roman Empire or ancient Greece, in part because they had no newspapers, and in part because of the fragmentary nature of whatever documentation there was. Copies of military reports sent to HQ have been found and read from a site along Hadrian's Wall, basically the only such collection. They wrote such things on perishable materials. Even surviving ancient histories are generally incomplete (or almost completely lost).

The Romans occupied the Danish peninsula and apparently bottled up shipping to and from the Baltic -- a Roman cemetery was found during a rescue dig in Copenhagen around ten years ago. The fiction of "the battle that stopped Rome" was already invalid, but it really looks foolish now.

The Bay of Jars in Brazil has a deep wreck that is apparently Roman in date. Some nimrod from Italy claimed that he'd salted the bay with amphora, but unless he has a time machine, he'd have had no way to do it early enough to result in the naming of the bay more than 150 years ago. IOW, he may have decided to put a few in there, but the only extensive experience with the wreck was Robert Marx', who noted that most of the jars are in deep water, due to the wreck having broken in two, leaving only part of the former cargo in an area feasible for diving.

That kind of good-sized cargo didn't get there as a one-off -- ancient ships loaded with cargo sank surprisingly rarely, and didn't stray 8-10 thousand miles from home unless there was trade to be had.