Jordan Peterson on Catholicism: ‘That’s as sane as people can get’

LifeSiteNews ^ | May 27, 2019 | John-Henry Westen

[Mrs. Don-o]

May 27, 2019 (LifeSiteNews) — Speaking with one of the best-known conservative Jews, Dennis Prager, at the PragerU summit last week, world-famous psychologist Jordan Peterson spoke of God and his views of faith. After speaking about his dislike for the question ‘Do you believe in God?’ Peterson said, “I think that Catholicism — that's as sane as people can get.”

Peterson has often been asked about his faith, if he believes in God, and he said the question has always troubled him. He promised a podcast on the matter since he has given his dislike for the question much thought.

He explained, “Who would have the audacity to claim that they believed in God if they examined the way they lived? Who would dare say that?”

“To believe, in a Christian sense,” he added, “means that you live it out fully and that's an that's an unbearable task in some sense.”

Then in one long drawn-out, rapid-fire thought, the type that has enthralled his millions of fans, he laid out extemporaneously the vision of a believer in God:

“To be able to accept the structure of existence, the suffering that goes along with it and the disappointment and the betrayal, and to nonetheless act properly; to aim at the good with all your heart; to dispense with the malevolence and your desire for destruction and revenge and all of that; and to face things courageously and to tell the truth to speak the truth and to act it out, that's what it means to believe -- that's what it means -- it doesn't mean to state it, it means to act it out. And, unless you act it out you should be very careful about claiming it. And so, I've never been comfortable saying anything other than I try to act as if God exists because God only knows what you'd be if you truly believed.”

See the full exchange of Peterson and Prager here.

[ealgeone]

I get it that nothing more is required...

You would be the first Roman Catholic to say that. I am encouraged to see this.

...but would it be alright with you, if for instance I was actually able to talk directly to Jesus...

You can and this is the Scriptural solution to the issue at hand.

9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us. 1My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous; 2and He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. 1 John 1:9-2 John 2:2 NASB

... or His representative here on earth...

if it makes you feel better, but only Christ forgives our sins and our appeal is only to Him.

... and tell Him how sorry I was that I stole your car...

If the Him is Jesus, then this is very Scriptural.

and then He asked me to think about His mother while I meditate on the time:....

A non-Scriptural position. Thinking about Mary or Paul or Peter does us no good in this situation.

when He assumed his mom into Heaven or

Not supported by Scripture nor Tradition.

when He crowned her Queen in Heaven or..

Not supported by and rejected by Scripture. If you're appealing to Revelation 12:1 you have to include 12:2. Rev 12:2 speaks of the woman crying out in pain which would be an indication of being under the curse issued in Genesis.

The subject of the passage doesn't change in this sentence. There is no grammatical rule that would allow this.

to pray like he taught us in scripture.

If so, the Roman Catholic will direct their prayers to God. There is no teaching of praying to departed believers in the New Testament.

then in my sorrow to hear Him say the most comforting words "Go now, your sins are forgiven"

He's already told us this in His Word.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

.

[ealgeone]

Then they'll challenge the NT prohibitions because --- they will argue ---they don't refer to ALL homosexuality in general (a word that didn't even exist until the 19th century) but only against certain specific corrupt practices of late-classical antiquity, e.g. the practices of the arsenokoitai and malakoi.

Arsenokoitai is a compound word: arseno is the word for “a male,” and koitai is the word for “mat” or “bed.” Put the two halves together, and the word means “a male bed”—that is, a person who makes use of a “male-only bed” or a “bed for males.” And, truthfully, that’s all the information we need to understand the intent of 1 Corinthians 6:9.

https://www.gotquestions.org/arsenokoitai.html

This is one of the reasons we study the Greek.

It is incumbent upon the believer to know this and to do their homework.

An appeal to Romans 1 would bring this issue into clarity.

Also, an appeal to Jesus talking about marriage being between a man and woman and why the man leaves his home.

But the point is, that it can't be definitively refuted n the basis of the Bible alone,...

Well, yes it can...if one knows their Scripture.

Will there be some who are "hard of hearing" and reject the message?

Yep.

because if can be plausibly argued that Mosaic law IS inapplicable to us,

again...as far as a requirement for salvation, the Mosaic Law does not apply to the believer in Christ.

... and that Paul DID condemn only temple prostitution and pederasty, there's no way for Christian moral advocates to argue further except by referring to either Tradition (what the Church has always taught) or Natural Law (what can be known by reason.).

Again, all of this can be refuted using Scripture, the New Testament, if one knows their Scripture. I'd have no problem in appealing to anatomy either as there are some body parts not designed for certain uses and the ensuing health problems associated with these.

But this is different discussion than a requirement for salvation.

[boatbums]

So, of your kindness: a working definition, or link to a definition, of Sola Scriptura which is acceptable to you --- if I may ask.

Would St. Augustine work for you?

What more shall I teach you than what we read in the apostles? For Holy Scripture fixes the rule for our doctrine, lest we dare be wiser than we ought. Therefore I should not teach you anything else except to expound to you the words of the Teacher.

[MHGinTN]

Cor is the abbreviation for Corinthians:

1 Cor 6:19 You know that your body is a sanctuary of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have received from God, don’t you? You do not belong to yourselves, 20 because you were bought for a price. Therefore, glorify God with your bodies.

First, Paul tells them the HOLY SPIRIT is IN THEM, then he emphasizes that they WERE BOUGHT, past tense, already a completed transaction for those with the Holy Spirit IN THE<.

[metmom]

Philippians 3:2-15 Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. For we are the circumcision, who worship by the Spirit of God and glory in Christ Jesus and put no confidence in the flesh— though I myself have reason for confidence in the flesh also. If anyone else thinks he has reason for confidence in the flesh, I have more: circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; as to the law, a Pharisee; as to zeal, a persecutor of the church; as to righteousness under the law, blameless. But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord.

For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. Brothers, I do not consider that I have made it my own. But one thing I do: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I press on toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Jesus never denied that mighty works were done.

This is a danger for those who would depend on their works.

They often question whether faith is enough, so they add works to it, but then how do they know the works are enough?

[metmom]

It's not *coming a long way with human nature*.

Human nature cannot be reformed. Those in the flesh cannot please God. The only thing to do with the human nature is crucify it.

When one is born again, he's given a NEW nature, not just a fixed up old nature. The new nature is the only reason that we want to obey and please God because it's not in the cards for the flesh nature.

Galatians 5:19-21 The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:22-23 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

[metmom]

So, of your kindness: a working definition, or link to a definition, of Sola Scriptura which is acceptable to you --- if I may ask.

I already posted it TO YOU in post 523 upthread on this very page. Which, BTW, was not the first time I've posted it on this thread.

[metmom]

And all that is well and good in our dealings with each other, but does NOTHING to erase the sin debt we owe God for the sin against Him that we committed by breaking HIS Law.

Reparations only make things right between us humans. It does not make it right between us and God for violating His commandment.

James 2:8-11 If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing well. But if you show partiality, you are committing sin and are convicted by the law as transgressors. For whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become accountable for all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Please be aware of the distinction between small-t tradition like "We bless wedding rings" and Big-T traditions like:

"The authors of the four Gospels were Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John."

I recommend you try to learn a little bit on your own about Tradition in order to get a coherent sense of the whole thing, rather than pecking away like a bird picking up garbled and fragmentary statements.

Would you like a few recommendations for reading? I could try to find the best readings on, for instance, the Ante-Nicene Fathers.

---

The "distinctives" of Catholicism all have their origins in not merely "human," but Sacred (called "Apostolic") Tradition since these things are rooted in the Apostolic Era -- the Apostles themselves, and the first and second generation of Christians taught personally by them.

---

• Of first and foundational importance: the writing, transmission, and Canon of the Scriptures themselves. This is the earliest and (I would say) most important element of Tradition handed down to us from the Apostolic era.

• The earliest creeds (e.g. Apostles' Creed) and catechisms (e.g. the Didache): while not texts of the NT, they were contemporaneous with the writing of the NT (first century).

• Apostolic Succession and hierarchical structure (Bishops, Priests, Deacons)

• Continuous chain of preservation/custody of the Scriptures over millennia

• Christology, the sources and theological understandings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers which culminated in the later conciliar creeds (e.g. Nicene Creed).

• Liturgical prayer, esp. the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and Eucharistic realism (e.g. the Liturgy of St. James)

• Spiritual life nourished by the Sacraments

• Constant sharing of spiritual goods in the Communion of Saints/Mystical Body of Christ

• Honoring of the Blessed Saints in Heaven and of Mary, benefiting from their intercession

• Our own constant intercession in living contact with the Body of Christ, whose Members are both in this world and in the next

• Incarnational/Sacramental view of reality

• Confidence in the promises of Christ and Holy Spirit's guidance of the Church and thus the authority and holiness of her official doctrines (Magisterium)

That constitutes a preliminary outline of what comprises capital-T Tradition.

[metmom]

No one knows which traditions Paul meant, but hey, it’s a blank check for anything!!!

I guess some folks think that gives them license to make stuff up as they go along.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Thanks most sincerely. This is the first time I saw this.

As I explained to aMPU,I have been on these threads for years, and so have you, but we haven't always been on all the *same* thread, nor have we read ever item. This thread, for instance, has over 570 items, and I have read -- at most--- only the 40 or 50 from this thread alone that appeared on my ping page.

And I'm not even sure I read them all. There are so many pings on my ping page, you might post something to me and within minutes it's on my page 2, or even page 3 or further down he queue. The fact that you sent it to me, does not establish that I ever saw it!

I'll read this carefully.

Bedtime now. Thanks, Peace and God bless.

[metmom]

Not supported by and rejected by Scripture. If you're appealing to Revelation 12:1 you have to include 12:2. Rev 12:2 speaks of the woman crying out in pain which would be an indication of being under the curse issued in Genesis.

Also, if the RC's are going to run with the woman in Revelation being Mary, then they have a problem with the statement that Satan went to wage war with the rest of her children.

Ooops, there goes the perpetual virginity of Mary thing and that she and Joseph didn't have any other children.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Of first and foundational importance: the writing, transmission, and Canon of the Scriptures themselves. This is the earliest and (I would say) most important element of Tradition handed down to us from the Apostolic era.

(This is GOD working. Not tradition. Don't try to slip in that Roman Rooster!)

The earliest creeds (e.g. Apostles' Creed) and catechisms (e.g. the Didache): while not texts of the NT, they were contemporaneous with the writing of the NT (first century).

Apostolic Succession and hierarchical structure (Bishops, Priests, Deacons)

(not necessary for salvation or maturity of a believer)

Continuous chain of preservation/custody of the Scriptures over millennia

(This is GOD working. Not tradition. Don't try to slip in that Roman Rooster!)

Christology, the sources and theological understandings of the Ante-Nicene Fathers which culminated in the later conciliar creeds (e.g. Nicene Creed).

Liturgical prayer, esp. the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass and Eucharistic realism (e.g. the Liturgy of St. James)

Spiritual life nourished by the Sacraments

Constant sharing of spiritual goods in the Communion of Saints/Mystical Body of Christ

Honoring of the Blessed Saints in Heaven and of Mary, benefiting from their intercession

Our own constant intercession in living contact with the Body of Christ, whose Members are both in this world and in the next

Incarnational/Sacramental view of reality

Confidence in the promises of Christ and Holy Spirit's guidance of the Church and thus the authority and holiness of her official doctrines (Magisterium)

(not necessary for salvation or maturity of a believer)

Some are totally bogus, but I'll set that aside for the greater point that none of this is necessary for salvation and Christian maturity.

[Luircin]

The funny thing is that Paul refers to the Ten Commandments as works of the law, and Catholics insist works of the law just mean temple sacrifices.

Calling Paul a liar.

[MHGinTN]

So, you are admitting that Catholicism which you teach has many bog T traditions which are not supported by the Word of God. The haughty airs not withstanding, this is a small bit of progress to have you posting some of the non-scriptural big Ts of your religion.

[cornelis]

Augustine, St. John Chrysostom, Gregory of Nyssa, and of course Aquinas. Annalex posts these quite often right here on FR. And I posted a link for eagleone to the Patrologiae Cursus Completus, Series Graeca, a 161 volumes online for your perusal. Hard to be a theologian or a Christian without doing exegesis.

What exactly are you looking for? Textual criticism later led to higher criticism, so we'll be sure to steer clear away from that.

[Iscool]

You do realize the blunder you just made with this post...right?

I don't believe I made a blunder...I was being a little facetious with a little mockery thrown in...

Regardless of the amount of scripture posted proving scripture 'alone', or 'only', or 'sola' for the last 20 years, the canned response by the Catholics is 'I don't see the words sola, alone or only in the scripture you posted, so you have no proof'...

And after again seeing a post that proves the early church fathers believed in sola scripture as well, I was mocking the Catholic position that that post won't convince them of Sola Scripture either...

[sparklite2]

Sola is bad because it keeps you from
making up your religion as you go along.
And two thousand years is probably too
long to resist making things more to
one’s liking. And once you get started,
it’s real hard to stop.

[Elsie]

...though I'm sure my brothers and sisters, who agree on the essentials, will chime in with their insights.

 

 

Or not...

 

 

 

As I was walking across a bridge one day; I saw a man standing outside the railing, about to jump off.

 

So I ran over and said, "Stop! Don't do it!"

"Why shouldn't I?" he said.

 

I said, "Well, there's so much to live for!"

He said, "Like what?"

 

I said, "Well...are you religious or atheist?"

He said, "Religious."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Christian or Buddhist?"

He said, "Christian."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Catholic or Protestant?"

He said, "Protestant."

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Episcopalian or Baptist?"

He said, "Baptist!"

 

I said,"Wow! Me too! Are you Baptist Church of GOD or Baptist Church of the Lord?"

He said, "Baptist Church of GOD!"

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Original Baptist Church of GOD, or are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD?"

He said,"Reformed Baptist Church of GOD!"

 

I said, "Me too! Are you Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1879, or Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915?"

He said, "Reformed Baptist Church of GOD, reformation of 1915!"

 

I said, "Die, heretic scum", and pushed him off.

 

-- Emo Phillips