Electric cars have benefits, but likely won't save you money

phys.org ^ | February 7, 2018 | by Dee-Ann Durbin

[Red Badger]

Electric cars have a lot of perks: zero emissions, a quiet ride and instant acceleration. But can they save you money? Probably not.

Electric car prices are falling, but they still cost more than equivalent gas models because of their expensive batteries. A $7,500 federal tax credit

[PIF]

I’ve heard that if we suddenly had tens of millions of electric vehicles on the road, that our grid couldn’t support that many vehicles recharging.

—

Yep. and the only types of plant capable of supplying the necessary amperage are coal/gas/nuclear - all types the greenies and the electric car crowd want to eliminate. Bio/wind/solar cannot generate sustained amperage needed and need conventional back up power plants.

Another point everyone forgets: electric cars pay no road tax. Roads do not fix themselves. So more toll roads, higher tolls, semis will have to pay more because every road has to have a toll - food and goods prices will rise sharply.

Alternative is to have car millage meters which report actual millage to some central office and that in turn sends bills to car owner to pay for road maintenance.

Electric cars suck

[adorno]

Electric cars are cheaper to fuel. It costs $600 per year to charge a Leaf... by comparison, you'll spend $1,050 on gas to fill up the Civic.

That's A phony comparison.

In fact, it's the biggest deception that EV proponents and EV makers keep perpetrating.

Sure enough, it might cost around $1,000 per year to fuel up the Civic.

But, "fueling" up the Leaf is a lot more expensive.

So, for ten years usage, the Civic might cost $10,000 to fuel up.

The leaf will cost $6,000 for ten years. But, that's where the BIG deception lies.

Here's why it's a big deception...

When you use a flashlight with batteries, you need to get new batteries to "refuel" the flashlight. Thus, the "fuel" will end up costing more in the long run than the flashlight itself, because of the many batteries that have to be bought.

Now, the "fuel" for electric vehicle is NOT JUST THE ELECTRICITY to "refuel" the vehicle. The TOTAL fuel for an EV is the total cost of the battery and the electricity. So, if an EV's battery were to cost $10,000 if bought separately, the total cost of "fueling" up the EV would be $10,000 plus the $6,000 electricity. We're talking about $16,000 for 10 years.

BUT, THAT'S NOT ALL!!!!

An EV's battery will have to be replaces some 6-8 years down the line; perhaps 10 years if you're lucky. So, at that point, we're talking about another $6,000 for replacing the old battery with a new one, if we're lucky.

So, at that point, we're talking about total cost of "fueling" costs of $22,000 for an EV.

In order for the "deception" to disappear from the total cost of ownership, the ICE car makers would have to toss in the cost of refueling for 10 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first. At that point, EVs would be completely out of the question.

Bottom line is that, when an EV is purchased, people are also being sold the "fuel" to power the vehicle. Without the battery the electricity would be a moot point. Thus, the total fuel for an EV is the batteries plus the electricity.

[elteemike]

My much loved but smug Liberal SIL was crowing about his new “zero emissions” Prius and the mileage it gets during one of his most recent virtue signalling lectures to me...

I think electric vehicles are a fine choice for some people, but asked him to please factor into his long term equation the coal or natgas fuels used by the utility company (steam plumes from their cooling towers visible from his house) to generate the electricity that recharges his battery pack, and the fossil fuels used in the manufacture and eventual replacement of that battpak when it goes dead and needs replacement...

As if unheard he sidestepped the power plant question entirely and told me he would trade in the Prius long before the battpak expected replacement time...So I guess that isn’t an issue then, hmmm?

Not exactly a white knuckle death grip on reality...

[central_va]

Taking an EV out when it is 3 deg F out side is risking your life unnecessarily.

[GingisK]

It won’t be free once larger numbers use those charging stations. Energy costs the same, no matter the source. Starbuck’s electric meter spins fast while they charge.

[DennisR]

Yep. Hydroelectric, nuclear, thermal, or solar are needed to be “clean.” Otherwise, it is just converting one form (the dreaded carbon-based fuels) of energy to another.

[RKBA Democrat]

Widespread adoption of EVs isn’t going to happen. The electrical grid can’t handle it.

Ironically there is a low emissions vehicle that works, has been around for decades and the fuel can be had for less than gasoline: CNG vehicles. But they’re not sexy and companies can’t milk tax breaks so they’re relatively unheard of.

[libertylover]

So even by the extremists own criteria, more electric cars equals greater emission from power plants.

And the emissions are concentrated in a small area instead of being dispersed over a large area where they dissipate faster.

[RegulatorCountry]

You can get a very decent serviceable electric car for a reasonable price by buying a late model off lease vehicle, the battery life is still very good and they’re not selling at much if any premium over gasoline powered cars.

If you just use it to drive around town, have a fairly short commute and park it at home at night, that’s when you charge it and that’s when the electricity is cheapest. It’s a very economical thing for people in the right circumstance.

It’s also not stupid to have a vehicle that does not rely upon the primary infrastructure for fueling transportation. Set up a solar carport for it, use the panels for the roof of a simple lean-to structure oriented south, in an emergency the car will be charged in a day or so. Better than walking.

[DCBryan1]

Ask all those green weenies during the hurricane that fled the keys and Miami how far they got! Traffic...heat.......an electric car is a death sentence if it is your bug out vehicle.

[DCBryan1]

Electric cars won't be viable until the following: 1. Everyone agrees on a single standard for DC fast charging and AC slow charging, including charging voltages and especially plug design. 2. The range per charge has to reach around 500 km (310 miles). 3. A battery can be full-charged from essentially no change within 7-10 minutes.

You missed one:

4) Nuclear power plants built in every state.

[nicollo]

So, if you needed to carry around energy to use at some point in the future, of equal weight, which would you choose:

1. a battery;
or
2. a gallon of gasoline ?

No. 2 is far more stable, portable, and energy-dense than no. 1.

[packrat35]

I agree with you. I would be the perfect person for a electric car. I live les than 10 miles from where I work and I don’t drive much after I get off work.

An electric car would be great. I could drive to work and then home and not worry about needing a charge till I got home. Even a couple of stops after work wouldn’t be a problem. Just plug it in when I get home...

EXCEPT...I don’t and won’t pay a huge premium for the privilege. The cost is way oo high and I would still need an extra car for when I did have to do some real long distance driving.

If I could get one for less than $3000, I might go for it. But for $50,000, I’ll pass!

[CodeToad]

Remember, fuel numbers given are often stated with gas being $5.00 gallon.

[packrat35]

This is true, and means that the car is worthless when it needs a battery because by that time, the car would be worth less than the battery.

Which means that these “green” cars will be headed to the junkyard even faster than those “dirty” gasoline cars.

Yep, these “clean” cars will actually be most “dirty” to the planet than the gasoline cars they replace.

Also, just how are we going to fund the highways when the electrics take over. Road use taxes, where the government will track your every more and bill you for it. No thank you!

[chrisser]

It’s too bad electric cars only come in “fun size” (Tesla excepted). In 8 or so years, when the batteries are too expensive to replace, I wager you’ll be able to pick them up for pennies on the dollar. Swap in a gas engine and away you go...

[Mount Athos]

it’s a tesla charging station not starbucks

[GingisK]

Big deal. They won’t be free forever.

[Red Badger]

Innovations in new battery technology are coming faster and faster as mfrs race to be the new ‘standard’ in electric car batteries. Faster charging, Longer driving and longer lifetime usage will all come, and fairly soon. GM, Volvo, Ford, Mercedes and several others are committed to the electric car and are pouring billions into R&D.

The big problem is there is no current (PUN ALERT!) charging stations on every mile of roadways to accommodate the number of cars that will be on the road shortly. AND even if there were, the Electric Grid could not handle the amount of power delivered in its present state. So The Grid will have to be replaced with something else that is acceptable by the public and the governments of the world.

Tesla himself envisioned a ‘wireless’ power transfer of energy back in his time, but he didn’t have the tools or technology (microwaves!)to accomplish the task. It may well come to fruition, and replace the grid that HE invented, not Edison!..........................

[Red Badger]

It’s about the roar of an engine, the smell of oil and gas, the feel of raw power, torque and gravity being controlled by your foot pushing a gas peddle....... The electric vehicle experience will never compare.

Oh yes it will! with the exception of the 'roar' and the smells! Electric motors deliver huge amounts of TORQUE and POWER, INSTANTANEOUSLY! The tire manufacturers will have a booming business until people learn, or computers control, the power that gets dumped to the wheels in a microsecond!.................