Posted on 11/27/2016 9:52:44 AM PST by Swordmaker
Description: Rare and Unique Documented Colt U.S. Contract Artillery Model Single Action Revolver with Un-Numbered Replacement Frame Colt Artillery Model Single Action Army revolver with un-numbered replacement frame, barrel, cylinder and trigger guard.
The Ordnance Department purchased 171 unnumbered replacement frames from Colt between 1874 and 1891. The left side of the frame is roll-stamped with the Colt three-date/two-line patent marking initially used by Colt in 1890 at approximately serial number 134,000.
"A Study of the Colt Single Action Army Revolver" by Graham, Kopec and Moore states that the Army purchased six replacement frames from Colt on May 4, 1891. These were the last replacement frames purchased from Colt.
The inside of the loading gate is stamped with a "K" instead of a assembly number which indicates it is a replacement part circa 1890-1891. The frame is not stamped with the "U.S." property mark. The barrel is roll-stamped "45 COLT" on the left side which indicates it is a commercial replacement installed during the Colt overhaul of Single Action Army revolvers circa 1903.
The underside of the barrel is stamped with the small "R.A.C." sub-inspection mark utilized during the 1903 Colt overhaul. The cylinder is also a replacement that dates from the same overhaul and is stamped "R.A.C." sub-inspection mark of the rear face. The bottom of the back strap has the conventional serial number marking: "133/764/K".
The lower left side of the walnut grip is stamped with a faint and illegible Ordnance final inspection mark. Un-serial numbered Single Action Artillery revolvers are discussed by Kopec and Fenn on page 100 of "Colt Cavalry & Artillery Revolvers". Kopec and Fenn identified a total of Twelve artillery single action revolvers with un-marked frames and note that several of these revolvers have "45 COLT" marked barrels and "R.A.C." marked replacement cylinders.
Only two of the revolvers with un-serial numbered frames were stamped with "U.S." property marks. Kopec and Fenn state that the 'no-number" Artillery revolvers represent a final effort by Colt and the Ordnance Department to use the last remaining Single Action parts at the conclusion of the 1903 Colt overhaul.
The revolver retains traces of the factory blue finish used in the Colt 1903 overhaul on those portions of the barrel protected by ejector housing. More than 25% of the faded case colors remain on the frame and hammer. The balance of the revolver has a silver-gray patina. There is shallow pitting on the left recoil shield and top strap, bottom of the trigger guard and cylinder. The cylinder shows the greatest concentration of pitting. The Colt and Ordnance sub-inspection markings on the barrel and frame are sharp. The walnut grip is in good overall condition with the exception of the butt which has numerous dents from use as a hammer. The action is tight and functions well.
This is a rare and documented variation of the Colt Artillery Single Action revolver that rarely is ever offered at auction!
I’m saving my pennies for a cavalry model. ;)
Many a tin can met it’s match with that Winchester.
Just a fun rifle to shoot. ;o)
I just want a good condition Bisley in 45 Colt ...:o)
Great BBQ gun.
Here’s some good BBQ guns for you.
http://www.collectorsfirearms.com/colt-single-action-army-4-gun-sass-set-c11905/
I’d offer to split the cost & we could each pick two, but it would be a shame to break up the set.
Yep .... be a shame !!
He will not. He will hand you a box of .45 Auto. The ACP designations were obsoleted prior to WWII. Where have you been? It's the head stamp stupid!
It was not. The shorter version was named the .45 S&W. Still is. It is the head stamp stupid.
I believe that you are mistaken. Please post a photo of that box and a head stamp from the cartridges contained therein. It is the head stamp stupid.
Have you yet checked the SAAMI website? It is "saami.org"
Your photos prove that many on-line retailers are also ignorant of proper cartridge names. Notice that the cartridge boxes shown over the retailers description has the correct names. But yes, there are some non-SAAMI members and several off-shore manufactures that show their ignorance of proper cartridge designations.
And yes, there are several custom shellcase makers that will apply any head stamp you wish, if you are willing to pay a premium for the service.
I am on very firm ground and am historically and factually correct. You, however, have displayed much misinformation. When you find yourself in a hole, it is best to quit digging.
I’d offer him $600, and tell him that he could do better selling it on a gun auction site. Now tell me where I’m wrong. And try to keep in mind that Pawn Stars is a TV show, and every transaction is arranged in advance. This all started with one throwaway remark I made suggesting that a pawn shop would be the last place I would try to sell a valuable firearm (or anything else), and the TV pawn shop on “Pawn Stars” would be the last pawn shop I would ever sell anything in. You seem to consider yourself an expert on Colt SAAs, I am not. I own 3, none of them older that the mid-70’s, a Cowboy, a 3rd Gen SAA, and a 2nd Gen New Frontier, the latter 2 NIB. The only gun I own made before 1900 is a Swiss Verletti rifle. My personal interests run toward WW1-WW2 military-type guns, but not being rich, I will never own a gun worth more than the $3500 I paid for my Ohio Ord. BAR. I have a CMP M1D that may be worth that someday, but I get nervous paying that kind of money for a gun.
And don’t ask me to pretend I’m Rick Harrison, I can’t do that. I can pretend to be a gun dealer, since I’ve worked for a couple of them in the past, but pawn shops prey on the desperate and stupid, even TV pawn shops.
And you tell me you are in BUSINESS? You are going to send your customer away? You are insane. Every person coming to you to sell you merchandise to keep your doors open could sell their items on eBay if they wanted to take the time to do it. You are delusional.
But your starting offer at the high end of where you should wind up shows you do not know how to bargain or negotiate. Donald Trump would eat your lunch. You've left yourself no bargain room to come up and if you do, no room for you to turn a profit. You've from shot yourself in the foot right from the beginning of the negotiation.
Frankly, Rick Harrison would wind up at between $500 to $700 on that firearm after negotiating with the seller and both would be happy with the transaction. . . but he certainly would not "cheat" the owner. He might even suggest trying to sell it privately if they could not come to an amicable agreement.
However, there are pitfalls and traps in doing so, including getting your firearm stolen, the payment turning out to be fraudulent (It happens about 10% to 30% of the time where there is no escrow system in place), and people have even been assaulted when trying to make the transaction. . . and you open yourself up to online scammers.
You are wrong if you think that "every transaction is arranged in advance" because YOU do not know what you are talking about. Many of these transactions are from people who came there just walking in the door to sell their items and were selected to be featured on the program. . . and were brought back for the filming.
If you need money RIGHT NOW, an auction house is the LAST PLACE you would put your firearm to sell and get money. The typical turn around for you to receive your money is several MONTHS to a YEAR LATER. The auction house schedules these auctions months in advance, prepares a catalog, advertises the auction, then has to HOLD ON TO THE MERCHANDISE you provide them for a minimum of 30 days before they can even start to put it in a catalog to assure it is not stolen. Remember this was my business for many years!
Pawn shops are the last resort of people who have no credit and no other place to turn to when they desperately need quick cash. Their other option are loan sharks who charge exorbitant rates on signature or handshake loans and break your legs if you don't pay up. At a pawn shop you can turn household goods into quick emergency cash like no other place.
Which is why my B-I-L asked me what serial number I would like on the deer rifle he made for me out of parts and pieces lying around his shop. He abhors the ATF.
The semi-plausible story about the S&W 45 caliber cartridge has been repeated so long and often by gun writers that it is accepted as fact by many otherwise knowledgeable people. The same lie told often enough.....
You scholars out there are referred to J.R. Mattern's book "Handloading Ammunition" published in 1926. He identifies the cartridge as .45 Colts (sic) and does even mention the shorter S&W version of the cartridge.
Philip B. Sharpe's book "Complete Guide to Handloading" published in 1937 describes the .45 Colt cartridge correctly and further describes the .45 S&W cartridge as "It is now an obsolete cartridge."
Herschel C. Logan's book "Cartridge" published in 1969 describes both the .45 Colt and .45 S&W cartridges correctly.
I have examined countless books and magazines (including every issue of "The American Rifleman" and have never found a reference to length of 45 caliber revolver cartridges prior to WWII.
My own speculation is the "Long" terminology originated after WWII by returning G.I.'s that had been exposed to Model 1911-A1 pistols and it's ammunition "Cartridge, Caliber 45, Model 1911" and felt they needed a means to differentiate between the auto pistol cartridge and the older revolver cartridge. No differentiation was needed then or now. The head stamp describes all one needs to know.
By the way, the U.S. military never chambered any of their firearms for either the .45 ACP or .45 Auto cartridges. Not the 1911 series of pistols, 1917 revolvers, Thompson Sub Machine Guns, M3 Greases Guns, Reising Sub Machine Guns or the Liberator Pistols. All were chambered for the Cartridge, Caliber 45, Model 1911.
In addition, the .45 ACP cartridge was obsoleted by the .45 Auto cartridge prior to WWII. Where have the gun writers been? Some people just never seem to get the word.
The .45 ACP, .45 Auto and .45 Model 1911 cartridges are not identical. Each is loaded and tested to entirely different Technical Data Packages using different pressure testing equipment, procedures and specifications for maximum pressure.
Just because two cartridges appear identical and might chamber in a gun with a different caliber designation does not make them identical and safely interchangeable. Pulse P cartridges are not the same and standard cartridges of the size. The .223 Rem cartridge is not the same as 5.56mm cartridges.
There is a formal process within the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufactures Institute (SAAMI) and American national Standards Institute (ANSI)to establish cartridge names. Laymen and ill educated gun writers and several rogue gun manufactures do not have the right to rename an existing cartridge or use obsoleted designations no matter how compelling their motives seem to be. It is no more appropriated to use obsolete cartridge designations than to address a married woman by her maiden name. Words have meanings.
Every SAAMI member and other responsible manufacturers have some form of the following warning on their ammunition packaging. "Use only in firearms in good condition marked and chambered for use of this cartridge"
Its the head stamp Stupid!
You assume the firearms follow the cartridges. Nothing could be further from the initial truth. The firearms inventors design and make the gun first; they then also designing and make the first ammunition that will fire in that gun, and then the ammunition manufacturers make their ammunition to fit the firearm so designed to the gun maker's specifications.
This fact applies to the Colt Single Action of 1872, then 1873. The prior 1870 Smith and Wesson Model 3 then its variation designed in 1874-1875, referred to as the Smith & Wesson Schofield when chambered in .45 S&W Schofield, although they were trying to duplicate the performance of an existing cartridge within their own design parameters. It applies to the Colt developed 1905 semi-automatic pistol developed by John Browning, which would later be adopted into being use in his better designed Colt 1911 Automatic Pistol, which would then be the winning design adopted by the US military.
The ammunition design follows the original gun design, not the other way around. Some ammunition designers may tweak the ammo designs and specifications to better perform in a specific gun, and change things around to improve things, but that does not mean my statement above is not true. It is ALWAYS easier to change the cartridge than it is to change the gun.
Later gun manufacturers, building guns to chamber that same cartridge may tweak the chamber of their guns to different dimensions for other reasons of their own to better handle the basic designed cartridge for their functions, say for automatic fire characteristics, but that does not change the basic premise.
The only exception to this is for performance specifications required, i.e., we need to design a .45 caliber firearm of such and such stopping power. Once the gun is made to those specifications, they then design the ammunition that will fire in the gun reliably.
You scholars out there are referred to J.R. Mattern's book "Handloading Ammunition" published in 1926. He identifies the cartridge as .45 Colts (sic) and does even mention the shorter S&W version of the cartridge.
There is no "shorter version" of the .45 Colt cartridge. It is NOT a shorter version of the Colt's cartridge. There are TWO DIFFERENT Cartridges that are well documented and well established firearms. One is designed to fire in a Colt revolver, the other is designed to fire in a Smith & Wesson revolver. They are totally different, merely sharing some dimensions. Just because the .45 Colt SAA will chamber the smaller, slightly smaller in diameter .45 S&W Schofield cartridge does not mean it is merely a shorter version of the .45 Colt. That is like saying a .38 special is merely a shorter version of a .357 Magnum cartridge. Both cartridges were patented and both existed in history. Your pet theory is a tempest in a teapot.
The .45 Smith & Wesson Model 3 Schofield was named after Major George W. Schofield, a US Army Cavalry ordnance officer who was ordered in 1874 to work with Smith & Wesson to develop a gun that would be faster in re-loading the standardized .45 Colt than the currently issued Colt SSA. He most likely got this plum position because his older brother was Major General John Schofield, was chairman of the Army Ordnance Board, the organization in charge of selecting all weapons for the Army. (He later became the Commanding General of the United States Army and then Secretary of War.)
In that effort, Smith & Wesson, however, was a proud proponent of the principle of "not invented here", and refused to adopt the Colt designed .45 Colt cartridge, especially since adopting the .45 Colt cartridge would require a major re-engineering and retooling to lengthen the cylinder, the frame, and the top strap of their current design. By NOT using the standard .45 Colt cartridge, and instead designing a newer, shorter .45 S&W "invented here" cartridge that would fit their current cylinder lengths, they could re-use their current designs and tooling they were already using to make their big bore .44 caliber, top-break revolvers by merely boring the cylinders slightly larger and also doing the same to their current barrels. This, management argued, would bring the new Army order to market much faster and with less expense (not to mention higher profit), a win-win, for all concerned, except the Army who would be paying the same, regardless of the savings Smith & Wesson would be realizing.
With Schofield's enthusiastic cooperation, S&W therefore opted to develop the new cartridge which would chamber in the slightly modified version of their current 1870 Smith & Wesson Model 3 revolver. Besides, they reasoned, the new shorter .45 S&W "Schofield" cartridge almost met the specifications of the .45 Colt in power. Smith & Wesson announced they were going to name this new gun the Smith & Wesson Schofield Model. The flattered (and soon to be a lot richer) Schofield signed off on it, accepting the modified design for the use of the Army.
Why richer? Major Schofield had made a minor modification to the locking mechanism of the model 3 Smith revolver and patented that change in his own name. S&W licensed that change from him and would pay Schofield a royalty for every model 3 sold from then on. As mentioned, his brother Major Gen. John Schofield was chairman of the Army Ordnance Board, which made both the decision to order S&W Schofield revolvers in .45 S&W, but to also later standardize on the .45 S&W Schofield round as it would chamber in both the S&W and Colt revolvers, and to continue using that round even after the Army stopped ordering Schofield revolvers, ignoring the lower performance of that round.
It is interesting to note that S&W patented the .45 S&W Schofield round and received licensing royalties from every ammunition maker who made that round. . . and from the government when they bought the cartridges. Can you spell "GRAFT?" I can.
As I mentioned before, there are existing military quartermasters' orders for ammunition, post introduction of the .45 S&W Schofield into the field, in which the specifications are distinctly for ".45 LONG Colt". . . apparently because of the confusion during the period before the Army standardized on the .45 S&W round that would chamber in both firearms. This problem was a provisioning nightmare for quartermasters until it was resolved in 1887, more than TWELVE YEARS after the Schofield failed to follow his orders to assist Smith & Wesson in designing a revolver that would quickly load the Army's .45 Colt standard round and instead allowed them to slide around the specifications of the contract, much to his financial gain. Bribery?? Of course.
In the interest of truth, the improvement that Schofield made to the locking mechanism of the S&W model 3 DID indeed improve the speed at which the gun could be reloaded and was a boon to a man on horseback could quickly reload in a battle, so it was not a bad thing. He improved that speed by several seconds and it was already 30 seconds faster to reload the Schofield than to reload the Colt. Both of them still required two hands. Schofield's improvement probably saved many lives in battle.
However, to return to the point, your lack of findings in books or modern industry societies who agree among themselves on designations, do not establish anything at all. The popular usage was established in catalogs and listings long prior to the 20th Century of what the public expects to see and use. The issue itself was exacerbated by Colt introducing the .38 Long Colt cartridge with was so designated because of the existence of the .38 Colt cartridges of 1871 designed for use in conversions of the 1851 Navy Percussion revolvers.
Philip B. Sharpe's book "Complete Guide to Handloading" published in 1937 describes the .45 Colt cartridge correctly and further describes the .45 S&W cartridge as "It is now an obsolete cartridge."
The .45 S&W Schofield was still being made well into the 20th Century. It was popular among police officers as it was a quick loading revolver with a large caliber cartridge with great stopping power (as opposed to the weak .38 revolvers most police were being issued) that could be purchased surplus. They were used through WWI. Many of them had their long barrels shortened to 5" and then nickel plated. Wells Fargo & Co. bought many of them and used them quite extensively. By 1937, when Sharpe's book was written and published, it probably was obsolete because no guns had been manufactured since about 1892-93. The .45 Colt cartridge was still being manufactured and has never been discontinued, except for perhaps a hiatus during WWII.
I have examined countless books and magazines (including every issue of "The American Rifleman" and have never found a reference to length of 45 caliber revolver cartridges prior to WWII.
And that means exactly what? Look up .45 S& W Schofield or just .45 S&W. How about .45 Webley? (I've sold a Colt SAA in .45 Webley.) .450 Boxer? .450 Adams? Don't limit your self to just .45 Colt. .455 Colt? (truly a .45 short at 0.82" case length) also referred to as .455 Enfield, Refer back to the original patents of the Colt 1871-1872 revolver modifications in .45 Colt and you will find the cartridge specs there and also to the Smith & Wesson patents for the Schofield .45 and you will find the dimensions of their smaller cartridge. You'd be surprised what calibers Colt would make its guns in, especially when you get into the special order department, and for shipment off shore. . . there are a lot of exotic cartridges that have turned up. Those are FACTS contrary to your mere opinion of what might be. The most intriguing is the .45 Colt Government:
It's just slightly longer than the specs for the .45 S&W Schofield. But what I think is going on here is that during the period of the military usage of the Schofield, the M1887 Military Ball Cartridge .45 was not sold to the public. So Winchester stepped into the niche and offered this round which from my perusal of the specifications WOULD chamber in both the .45 Colt and the .45 S&W Schofield revolvers. Ergo, .45 Colt Government, i.e. M1887 Military Ball Cartridge, and that this flattened box and the few cartridges that are left are from that period when ex-soldiers would have wanted "Government" loads and asked for them.
The .45 ACP, .45 Auto and .45 Model 1911 cartridges are not identical. Each is loaded and tested to entirely different Technical Data Packages using different pressure testing equipment, procedures and specifications for maximum pressure.. . .
By the way, the U.S. military never chambered any of their firearms for either the .45 ACP or .45 Auto cartridges. Not the 1911 series of pistols, 1917 revolvers, Thompson Sub Machine Guns, M3 Greases Guns, Reising Sub Machine Guns or the Liberator Pistols. All were chambered for the Cartridge, Caliber 45, Model 1911.
In addition, the .45 ACP cartridge was obsoleted by the .45 Auto cartridge prior to WWII. Where have the gun writers been? Some people just never seem to get the word.
Your claims are differences without distinctions, Buffalo. Merely changing quartermaster ordering designations, powder specifications, or other minor specifications that make no differences at all in the chambering of the firearms or for bookkeeping purposes is NOT "obsoleting" anything." The cartridges would still operate in any of the firearms that had been designed for that cartridge.
That .45 ACP cartridge was named, by Colt Firearms Co. the .45 Automatic Colt Pistol Cartridge. i.e. .45 ACP. That alone destroys your argument about the existence and naming of the .45 ACP since the inventing company CHOOSES the name of the cartridge, whatever the military later decides to designate it on contracts it lets out for other makers to build to MILSPEC.
Military designations, obsoleting, standardization, etc. bear no relationship to reality. They exist in a bubble of bureaucracy and unreality existing only within their own peculiar rules. They will rename anything according to their own arcane nomenclature, based on nothing but those peculiar rules.
For example, the .45 S&W Schofield cartridge under discussion above, when the US Army standardized on it in 1877, selected the manufacturer to be the Frankford Arsenal to make it paying royalties to S&W for the rights, and re-designated the cartridge as the .45 M1887 Military Ball Cartridge. By that time, they had also dropped the Smith & Wesson Schofield revolver completely and were ordering only .45 Colts in that caliber, which in their nomenclature were called "M1877 Revolver" even though the gun was an 1873 model. Go figure.
You argue that scholars or any writer who disagrees with your pet theory, no matter how expert in the field, is merely quoting myth. . . but you do not provide any proof of that either. The points they raise are quite cogent, while yours are not, merely stating the negatives of what you cannot find.
The "Plus P" designation on ammunition came about in the 1970s to differentiate between ammunition that could safely be chambered in modern firearms designed and built with more modern materials able to accept greater chamber pressures and guns with greater recoil. This was especially important in the 9mm, .380, .25 Autos, and others where older guns stood a significant danger from over pressures. I saw many guns were people did not understand what it meant, were sold +P ammo at a discount store, and had their guns badly damaged, destroyed, or even suffered individual injuries due to this lack of being informed personally or by store personnel of the danger of putting a +P cartridge into a gun not specced to accept it. P08 Lugers in 9mm were especially at risk as were old blow back .25 autos. .45 Colt autos, not so much, but still not good to shoot with +P unless reworked with new recoil springs, etc. Older SAAs, especially Black Powder, no. Modern OK.
Yet you keep claiming "It's the head stamp Stupid." I've told you that I was in the gun business for years and that head stamps exist that use .45 LC, so I say the same thing back at you!
Neither of these might be good exemplars, but they are examples
Yes, Buffalo, words mean things, but dictionaries change to reflect common usage. Words that meant something 100 years or 200 years ago, unfortunately don't quite mean the same as they do today. Sometimes it is important to know exactly what those original meanings are, but sometimes it is merely chasing nothing of any importance. This is the latter. When it is that case, go with the accepted public usage.
Farming exists in a market of government controlled pricing. It is not a free market and has not been for years. You do not buy and sell a product to make a profit. You do not sell to the general public multiple disparate items. Your experience is wanting, ozzymandus. That said, I do admire you for surviving in that climate. Congratulations. My hat is off to you.
If you do not haggle with your suppliers, you are paying too much. My grandfather was a farmer and he haggled over everything and got the best prices he could. . . but that was an era where the free market reigned in farming.
I am not, and never have been a pawn broker. I have bought and sold new and used items in retail in my varied careers and I know what I am talking about. YOU obviously do not. You reek of fear of haggling for the best agreement in an open market. . . but that is what a free and open choice in an unfettered economy is about. Willing sellers and willing buyers coming to an agreement of minds about what is best for both of them, whether or not a transaction occurs or not.
If you watch Pawn Stars or not (I suspect you really have not watched much), about 40% of the time, no transaction takes place because the seller and buyer do not come to a satisfactory agreement on the value the mutually agree would be pleasing to both. That is the way of the market. The other times, both go away happy, one with cash in hand, the other with another item to sell to a willing buyer at some time in the future.
Watching Pawn Stars is mostly educational about the items themselves which was usually quite interesting, no matter what the item. I always disagreed with the idea that an antique gun's value was enhanced if it could still be shot. That is absolutely WRONG because some antiques should never be fired again, at all. Among those are any guns with spiral wound Damascus welded barrels and I have seen them shoot them on the show to "prove their value." Such guns, no matter how good they look, due to the method of manufacture which has a tendency to incorporate oxygen and impurities in the welding technique, spontaneous failure can occur in old ones at any time. I've seen too many burst chambers to ever recommend firing one. I have also disagreed at times with the identification made to some of the guns their experts have made.
There are other pawn shops in Las Vegas, some right down the street from the Gold and Silver Pawn Shop run by Rick Harrison and his family. He is competition with those shops to buy the items brought in by these people. If he does not offer enough, they will take their items to his competitors and they will buy them. Rick has to consider that in his offers as well. When I was running the gun shop, there were five similar gun shops within a mile of my shop who would also buy used and antique guns with similar ability to make offers. . . and they would like nothing better than to have to opportunity to buy the gun I was making an offer on.
Rick Harrison is not "my idol". He is, however, a person I understand and admire as a good, and honest, businessman who gives value for what he does. You attacked him in a thread that had absolutely NOTHING to do with him, making ignorant comments about his business that had no basis in fact. I corrected your impression and you attacked me. I have been trying to educate you about the truths of such a business, of which I have had a similar but different experience. You, however, choose to remain pig headed and hide bound in your ignorance. Fine.
I've told you the facts of a retail business involved with buying from the public and selling to the public. Yet you've chosen to ignore those facts. Instead, you reply with insults and show that you ignore what I wrote. . . "pawn shop?" Did you not read I operated a gun shop? Both new and used, dealing in antiques and more modern? Apparently not. That I have expertise in appraising their values and management? Also apparently not. So you repeatedly choose to denigrate me, a form of ad hominem attack. I also have a degree in economics. . . which goes into quite a bit more depth on all of this. I've also been a CEO of an entirely different kind of business. No, I told you I don't idolize Rick Harrison. But he does know what is necessary to run a business that depends on repeat business and keeping his customers happy. You don't.
You are welcome to ignore the benefit of knowledge from people who have walked the walk, know far more than do you about something you obviously do not, and remain in your dark and gloomy place. You live in dark bubble.
That is everythin but confessions,then passin the collection plate
God, you’re a gasbag.
By the way, Ozzy, What you said you'd do would have been unethical in an employee. Had you been working in my gun shop and told a customer who wanted us to buy his gun to try and sell it on a gun auction site instead of accepting our offer, I would have fired YOU as soon as I heard that. That is taking the money out of your employer's pocket.
You make an honest offer. Explain it is a wholesale offer and that you will be selling it for more. If he wants to put it on consignment with you, you can make that arrangement for a different amount, but you never send him elsewhere. That is under mining your employer's business. It is OK to tell him to try and sell it himself, but NOT to tell him where.
If the customer mentions another option such as the auction, you are free to discuss the pros and cons of such an option, but you are not to suggest it as an option. That is unethical to your employer.
No small business is in the business of turning customers to other places to do business. . . unless the item is not something they do not do business with. None.
And I told you before that pawn shops do not "prey on the weak and stupid'. They are the last refuge of people who have no other resources to get quick cash. It's a safety net. Where does someone go when they cannot go anywhere else to get what they need? Banks require collateral. Check cashing and quick loan places require the borrower to have a job to garnishee or bank checking account to write a post-dated check on.
Where does the guy go when all he needs is a couple hundred dollars to tide him over until he can get a job? He pawns something, some jewelry, tools, a bicycle, etc. paying a reasonable interest rate set by the state, for a set period of time, and he can redeem his property by paying back the money plus the interest. If he pays neither, he cedes his ownership to the pawn shop to sell. He usually, depending on the state, can extend the period of pawn by paying a small fee. The average pawn is for less than one month and for less than $150. Statistics show that over 85% of all items pawned are redeemed by their owners.
It also might surprise you to learn that wealthy people use Pawn Shops as an inexpensive place to store very valuable items when they go on vacation. Furs, Firearms, etc. can be pawned cheaper than they can be stored in secure vaults. High end pawn shops are far more secure and the low pawn rates are lower than the insurance and storage rates at the secure vaults and the high end pawn shops have secure vaults for high end pawn items. So these wealthy people merely pawn these high end items before the take off, and redeem them when they return!
In California the pawn loan rates set by the legislature range from 3% up to 9% for 3 months plus a small per month storage charge, also set by the state, that increases according to the size of the item. If you need to borrow money, your other option is a signature loan where the rates are 29%. Good luck on that, Ozzy.
Wow. Even as I was typing, you became an even bigger gasbag. And how dare you even posit that I would ever work for a blathering tool like you. Your egomania was amusing, but I’m tired of it now. I know you’ll make another speech, because know-it-all gasbags like you always have to think they got the last word, but I won’t be reading it. Save your lectures on how to cheat customers for somebody else.
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