Posted on 11/27/2016 9:52:44 AM PST by Swordmaker
Description: Rare and Unique Documented Colt U.S. Contract Artillery Model Single Action Revolver with Un-Numbered Replacement Frame Colt Artillery Model Single Action Army revolver with un-numbered replacement frame, barrel, cylinder and trigger guard.
The Ordnance Department purchased 171 unnumbered replacement frames from Colt between 1874 and 1891. The left side of the frame is roll-stamped with the Colt three-date/two-line patent marking initially used by Colt in 1890 at approximately serial number 134,000.
"A Study of the Colt Single Action Army Revolver" by Graham, Kopec and Moore states that the Army purchased six replacement frames from Colt on May 4, 1891. These were the last replacement frames purchased from Colt.
The inside of the loading gate is stamped with a "K" instead of a assembly number which indicates it is a replacement part circa 1890-1891. The frame is not stamped with the "U.S." property mark. The barrel is roll-stamped "45 COLT" on the left side which indicates it is a commercial replacement installed during the Colt overhaul of Single Action Army revolvers circa 1903.
The underside of the barrel is stamped with the small "R.A.C." sub-inspection mark utilized during the 1903 Colt overhaul. The cylinder is also a replacement that dates from the same overhaul and is stamped "R.A.C." sub-inspection mark of the rear face. The bottom of the back strap has the conventional serial number marking: "133/764/K".
The lower left side of the walnut grip is stamped with a faint and illegible Ordnance final inspection mark. Un-serial numbered Single Action Artillery revolvers are discussed by Kopec and Fenn on page 100 of "Colt Cavalry & Artillery Revolvers". Kopec and Fenn identified a total of Twelve artillery single action revolvers with un-marked frames and note that several of these revolvers have "45 COLT" marked barrels and "R.A.C." marked replacement cylinders.
Only two of the revolvers with un-serial numbered frames were stamped with "U.S." property marks. Kopec and Fenn state that the 'no-number" Artillery revolvers represent a final effort by Colt and the Ordnance Department to use the last remaining Single Action parts at the conclusion of the 1903 Colt overhaul.
The revolver retains traces of the factory blue finish used in the Colt 1903 overhaul on those portions of the barrel protected by ejector housing. More than 25% of the faded case colors remain on the frame and hammer. The balance of the revolver has a silver-gray patina. There is shallow pitting on the left recoil shield and top strap, bottom of the trigger guard and cylinder. The cylinder shows the greatest concentration of pitting. The Colt and Ordnance sub-inspection markings on the barrel and frame are sharp. The walnut grip is in good overall condition with the exception of the butt which has numerous dents from use as a hammer. The action is tight and functions well.
This is a rare and documented variation of the Colt Artillery Single Action revolver that rarely is ever offered at auction!
I doubt it. It does have history, but it also has a lot lined up against it. I think the auction estimate is about right. Technically, it is not even a "Colt" assembled gun, in that Colt never made it. Colt made parts but the Springfield Armory assembled, fit, and timed the parts to actually make it into a gun.
The average retail store pays about 30-40% of retail for it’s merchandise. I’ve seen Rick pay 90% of the estimated value for stuff if he really likes it, but generally if you want more than half of it’s used retail value a pawn shop is not the place to go. If you need fast cash, you don’t get top dollar.
Yes, it’s my opinion, not yours. Thanks for playing.
Gee, you cry just like Rick.
These are great threads, thanks for taking the time.
The movies built a mythology about everyone in the old west carrying a Colt revolver, especially a Colt Single Action. Nothing could be further from the truth. Probably only about 15% of the guns used in the old west were Colt Single Actions. With less than 200,000 manufactured between 1973 and 1900 (and 44,000 of those being made for the US Military), they were a minority of the guns used in the old west.
Many people preferred the Colt Thunderer and Lightning or the Smith & Wesson double action revolvers, or the stronger Remington or faster loading S&W Schofield Single Actions. A large majority could not afford these expensive large bore guns and opted for the smaller caliber guns made by Harrington & Richardson and other lesser known makers in .22 rimfire to .38 S&W, Remington, and Colt Calibers. Even catalog sales did a large business in store brand guns made by various makers. A cheap firearm could be had for as low as $2 from mail order, while a basic Colt SAA would be $14.95 to $19.95 depending on options. A lot of people made do with the older percussion models left over from the Civil War, or paid a few dollars to have them converted to cartridge.
A factory worker was paid around a dollar a day, so your looking at almost three weeks of a standard workers' wages to buy a premium handgun, or two days for a cheap one. (It's not so much different today, so the amount of labor one has to put in to buy a premium handgun is still about the same!)
The smaller guns were certainly cheaper to push ammo through than the heavier bore guns. . . and they were lighter to carry. Their down side was stopping power in blackpowder loadings and barrel lengths.
The ideal horseman's/cowboy's combination was a Winchester rifle in .44-40 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) with a revolver in the same caliber so you did not have to buy and carry two different type of ammunition. However, there were different makes offering similar solutions in various calibers. You did need to be aware of what were popular calibers that might be stocked in general stores or gun shops in the areas you might be traveling through. Period hand loading sets were available in some calibers so the obscure cartridges could be reused.
One HUGE myth Hollywood created was the cool looking gunslinger's drop down holster with the thong tied around the thigh and the hammer thong that keeps the gun from falling out as the hero does his fights and falls. That NEVER existed in the Old West. . . such fancy fast draw holster rigs were a creation of the Hollywood movie studio costume departments in the 1930s.
Old time holsters were usually high up on the waist at the belt-line, seldom low slung, and usually pretty sloppily hung, and hardly ever tied down to the thigh. Why? Very few people EVER fought a quick draw gun fight! The holsters were usually on a single belt, the one the gunman used to hold up his pants. If they did have a secondary gun belt, it was usually a straight belt that was merely longer than his waist measurement. They were unlikely to be tooled. Many holsters were old modified military holsters repurposed to civilian use with the weather flaps cut off.
When I was in high school around 50 years ago or so. . . my history teacher was a scholar of the old west. He brought in a newspaper from Dodge City, Kansas, from 1886 in which a typical gunfight was described in an editorial.
It seems that two cowboys came into town to spend their week's earnings in a night of gambling, ladies of the evening, and drinking. At some time during the festivities the two got into a very heated argument about some subject that could only be settled by gunfire. They were going to go at it right there in the saloon, but one of the ladies they were consorting with, with the help of the bartender, persuaded them to take their dispute out into the street.
These two heatedly faced off, standing just ten feet apart, and proceeded to "argue" their differences with multiple discussions from their limited arsenal vocabulary using their revolvers, stopping only intermittently to reload when they ran out of bullets.
Sixty-seven shots later, having settled the matter to their mutual satisfaction, if not having run out of ammunition, or perhaps forgot what they had been arguing about in the first place, the two decided to reel back inside inside the saloon and continue their carousing. In the Saloon is where the constabulary found them singing in each other's arms companionably to arrest them for disturbing the peace and also for the collateral damage they had done during their argument.
Although neither inebriated gunfighter sustained any damage in the melee of flying bullets, two horses, the general store windows across the street, the façade of a dry goods shop, a milliners, a new hardware store sign, and a cow were unintended casualties of their black powder discussion. The owners of said property were very displeased.
So the facts of running a business make no dent in your unqualified ignorant opinion. You just proved my point that you have never run one and would go bankrupt in the first six months or less. . . so you insult people who have been successful business people. Good going boobie. That's the prize you win.
You want to call people liars and insult them based on your ignorant opinion and zero facts, go right ahead, but you aren't going to earn in respect around here.
Can we find out the winning bid?
You make a lot of assumptions without knowing anything about me. I’d say you’re the ignorant one. And you’re certainly a blowhard. I’ve met a lot of loud-mouthed blowhards like you, and have learned to laugh at them. Thanks for the laughs.
These are going up for auction on December 2, 3, and 4. Usually with these Auction Zip online and local auctions where the biding is handled simultaneously in real time, the final bid will be available for several days after the Auction. However, some of the Auction Zip auction houses take the finals down very quickly, some times at the end of the auction, so if you don't look quickly, they are gone, or will say "Realized Price Not Available."
In addition, the final bid price is NOT the price the buyer will finally pay. There is also a 20.5% buyer's premium on top of the bid price which is always paid by the buyer to compensate the auctioneer. For example, if the final bid is $100,000, the actual selling price paid to the auction house will be $120,500 plus sales tax. So when figuring what a collectible gun is worth, THAT price would be what you look at when you say what a willing buyer paid. The willing seller let it go for $100,000, but the willing buyer paid $120,500. You can also argue the willing buyer also was willing to pay whatever the sales tax was on top of that in figuring the value of the antique firearm. Thus, if the sales tax rate is 8%, then the actual value of the gun a wiling buyer would pay is $130,140. That is what it should be insured for.
Two weeks from now,
Another SAA will be auctioned off here in San Diego ,
I’ll be in on that !
Interesting thread. Occasionally rare stuff just appears out of nowhere.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=446942
This is a current thread at Shotgun World. A farmer in the UK posted about an engraved Browning A-5 he bought some years back. It turns out it is the gun Felix Funken (one of FN’s most famous engravers) did for the 1930 World’s Fair in Liege Belgium.
Colt SAAs are just plain cool. I’m on the lookout for one — nothing special, probably just a 2nd generation with a 5.5” barrel and standard black grips.
Great history and story...thanks for taking the time to write that up!
Don't let wannabe gun nuts and ill informed gun writers lead you astray. The proper designation is .45 Colt. Period.
Just check with the American National Standards Institute (ANSI) or the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute (SAAMI).
Its the head stamp, Stupid!
And don't waste your time and mine by providing examples of others that are equally misinformed.
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Was he really worth an answer?
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For your Ruger Blackhawk .45 long Colt. Of course with the extra cylinder yer good to go.
No assumptions. Educated conclusions from what you publicly posted denigrating the very real considerations that go into making a purchasing decision any businessman has to make in costing a product such as how long the product will take to turn over, cost of employees, flooring, etc, and called them "lies" and Rick Harrison a "creep." He is being honest in explaining to a potential seller of an item why he could not offer the full retail price the seller wanted to receive that an expert may have just appraised it as being worth at retail. You demonstrated your ignorance of actuals business realities. Do you even know the difference between retail and wholesale?
I am a great believer that when people show you what they are, believe them. You showed me what you are with your unwarranted attack on the extremely reasonable business discussions and practices of Rick Harrison on the PawnStars.
You showed that YOU'VE never run a business and had to show a profit when you called his explanations "lies." It's even more obvious when you denigrate the clear, reasonable facts and explanations I've posted to you citing facts from the antique and new/used gun business of which I have actual, real world experience gained from actually DOING WHAT YOU HAVE NOT (i.e. buying and selling modern and antique firearms or any product) and WHAT YOU WERE CRITICIZING and then having you double down on your ignorance by calling me a "blowhard" and then you've slung insults at me and another freeper, for daring to criticize YOU and point out your obvious ignorant claims.
ozzymandus, YOU ARE ignorant of the realities of business. . . But you can cure that ignorance problem you have. Get an education. I'm not sure you can cure that incivility problem you have hanging all over your attitude. It's simple try not insulting people who are not ignorant about such realities and have far more experience in what they are talking about such as those of us on this thread have run successful, profitable businesses who do.
You can dance and sling insults all you want, trying to make people think you know something, but you showed your ignorance with your first post. We are not laughing at you. We are shaking our heads with pity at your willful ignorance as you argue with people who were trying to show you your error.
Now that’s a blowhard. And who’s “we”? You and Rick Harrison? Or turd in pocket syndrome? I’ve run my own successful business for over 40 years, and I don’t run it by cheating people out of their belongings. You haven’t got a clue about me or what I do, but that won’t stop you. If you think a TV pawn shop show is real, you’re even dumber than I originally guessed. I’ve noticed that people in the crookedest professions are the most sensitive about criticism, such as lawyers, used car dealers, and apparently you.
What the history teacher said about it was that most cowboys could not afford to buy ammunition to practice to be good shots. When you are paid 50¢ to 75¢ a day, AND have a daily deduction for the mess wagon and another for board if you lived in the ranch house, you didn't have much left to spend on buying ammunition to shoot up target practicing. They'd rather spend their money on the rare trip into a town for drinking, women, or gambling. . . plus what ever other necessaries then might need. They were not very good shots. . . especially while drunk which is when most gun fights took place!
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