Talisker
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Locked on 06/29/2016 1:52:18 PM PDT by Jim Robinson, reason:
childisness |
Posted on 06/24/2016 7:01:11 PM PDT by Faith Presses On
Donald Trump, according to a new report, has accepted Jesus as his Lord and Savior.
No, you didn't accidentally click on The Onion. That's a factual statement, according to a well-respected evangelical faith leader.
Dr. James Dobson, who was among the more than 900 evangelical faith leaders who met with the Republican presidential nominee-in-waiting in New York City, says it happened fairly recently. He also said he knew who led the businessman to Christ.
"I don't know when it was, but it has not been long," Dobson told Godfactor's Michael Anthony in an exclusive interview. "I believe he really made a commitment, but he's a baby Christian. We all need to be praying for him, especially if there's a possibility of him being our next chief executive officer."
(Excerpt) Read more at charismanews.com ...
Which are two contradictory statements unless you mean it not for us to ‘judge’ whether a person’s initial profession of faith is genuine without evidence, yet the whole premise of Christian fellowship presupposes that we know who is a believer, and "Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them" (Matthew 7:20) calls us to make a judgment btwn true and false believers, as well as btwn what is good and evil, and which discernment increases with maturity. And thus one can have confidence or doubt of who is a believe based on evidence.
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil. (Hebrews 5:14)
But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak. For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister. (Hebrews 6:9-10)
Remembering without ceasing your work of faith, and labour of love, and patience of hope in our Lord Jesus Christ, in the sight of God and our Father; Knowing, brethren beloved, your election of God. (1 Thessalonians 1:3-4)
For from you sounded out the word of the Lord not only in Macedonia and Achaia, but also in every place your faith to God-ward is spread abroad; so that we need not to speak any thing. (1 Thessalonians 1:8)
I desire to be present with you now, and to change my voice; for I stand in doubt of you. Tell me, ye that desire to be under the law, do ye not hear the law? (Galatians 4:20-21)
Those are most blind, who will not see.
Go back to your book, and hide in your locked study weighing pins, while others fight on behalf of God’s Truth. Your inability to see the spiritual courage and faith being acted out right in front of you, nor recognize the Grace that enables it, is pathetic.
I pity you.
What's wrong with reality TV and having fun at "Pro"-Wrestling?
Talisker
It's course and crude and I'm SURE that GOD does NOT want those kinds of people to be Christians.
Luke 18:9-13
Answer my question and I’ll answer yours.
My understanding is that you are asking me is all power is from Satan.
My answer is, no, all power is not from Satan. God also happens to have some power - a little bit. God's Grace also has a little bit of power. God's blessings and protection also have a little bit of power. Faith in God is also faith in God's protection, which involves a little bit of power from God.
How you could confuse that with Satan is beyond me, but apparently you have. I hope I cleared it up for you - at least a little bit.
No, that not what Daniel1212 said. He said if Trump does not want to confess his conversion then it did not happen
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I have to be honest with you. I was disappointed to read this from you.
James Dobson said he knows who led Trump to Christ and that Trump is now a Christian. Dobson knows what a Christian is. Should have ended this discussion before it even started. I really saw no point in your comment.
Meaning you simply still have no counter argument and thus must resort to the same old refuted premise as well as spitwads. That is what is evident, and cultic devotion to a man, not a conversion of Trump, despite certain favorable aspects as the only viable candidate that can beat the proxy servants of the devil.
Despite my esteem of Dobson, the man is wrong if he presumes leading someone to say a sinner's prayer necessarily means such was converted, as that simply is not Scriptural. As shown, it is the kind of faith that confesses the Lord Jesus in word and deed that saves, and by which we can know one is a believer. And certainly one who has experienced the most profound change in heart and life would want to tell others about it.
Therefore my statement stands, that if Trump does not want to confess his conversion then it did not happen. Esp. in the light of his outspoken nature. If you want to contend that Scripture teaches that one who does not want to confess the Lord Jesus is a true believer, then do so, and face all the texts which are contrary to such silent witness. The NT church could have saved itself a lot of suffering if they obeyed the religious leaders, and did not "speak at all nor teach in the name of Jesus" as commanded. (Acts 4:19)
How many times have you read of Jesus's miracles and thought of how wonderful it would be to have seen it happen with your own eyes? I told you I pity you because God is using Trump to perform a miracle, and not only can't you see it, you are assuming the power to damn God's chosen tool. This doesn't mean Trump is a Messiah, but he is clearly receiving tremendous grace. No one in the world can do what he is doing - not even him, if you think about it. Yet it is being done, day by day, step by step. But you refuse to see it. Refuse. And then you claim Biblical scholarship? LOL, for what purpose - so that others can follow you and achieve your level of blindness? I'll pass.
And i expressed that your are greatly exaggerating what Trump has done in spiritual terms, and even being somehow instrumentally used of God (which even heathen can be) does not mean one is a Christian, and is no substitute for distinctly confessing the Lord Jesus and what Scripture teaches constitutes evidence of conversion, and being unwilling to confess his conversion is contrary to that.
"Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh." (Mt. 12:34) "we cannot but speak the things which we have seen and heard.' (Acts 4:20) "Come and hear, all ye that fear God, and I will declare what he hath done for my soul.' (Psalms 66:16) "Then they that gladly received his word were baptized:..And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers." (Acts 2:41-42) Of all people how could Trump be utterly silent about what would be the most profound transformative change in his heart and life? When souls were converted in Scripture, it was clearly evident by their baptism and express witness about Christ and manifest attendance to prayer, Christian fellowship, and worship. By which others knew they were believers.
you are assuming the power to damn God's chosen tool.
More nonsense as said and explained, and the same charge could be laid at your feet in damning those who reprove your vindictive unScriptural contentions. My statement is a wholly Biblical one, as shown, and applies to all. If anyone does not even want to confess their conversion then it did not happen.
This doesn't mean Trump is a Messiah, but he is clearly receiving tremendous grace. No one in the world can do what he is doing
Seriously, you sound like those who say the like about Putin in their like devotion to him as political messiah, but while Trump is expressing what a lot of patriotic American feel, and standing up to and baffling the media by refusing to be intimidated their political correctness, and i certainly hope and pray that he wins over Hillary, he hardly has expressed a consistent coherent moral stand, and certainly has not Biblically expressed a conversion to Christ.
And then you claim Biblical scholarship? LOL, for what purpose - so that others can follow you and achieve your level of blindness? I'll pass.
Meaning again that you simply have no Biblical case for such a conversion, while you make him out to be some apostle who has destroyed "every demonic power trying to destroy America." We can only wish that were true, but what is not true is cultic devotion that results in contentions that are contrary to Scripture and which thus renders Scripture as not saying anything certain but that men only make it to say something. The shoe fits and you are wearing it.
When Pilate asked, "What is truth?" Jesus remained silent.
To you, He said nothing. To me, he answered the question.
And since you do indeed need explanations, no, I'm not saying Trump is Jesus. What I'm saying is that, incredible as it might seem, not every testimony is made with words that can be approved or disapproved by self-anointed biblical scholars. Sometimes, testimony is made by what one actually does.
You're not bad. You're just naive. But you won't become wise until you quiet your tongue.
HMMMmmm...
Tao is a far better word than God, because the very idea of God creates the desire to worship... or to deny.
The point is that obviously Trump HAS ALREADY (pardon my faith here, but I will trust Dobson on this) confessed to men of his faith in Christ. Nothing more , nothing less. You have created an issue where there isn’t one.
Sounds like you want him, and if him, then all Christians, to come to your house and confess it to you before you accept his faith in Christ. And how often should he be confessing it to satisfy you? Does he need to buy television airtime during primetime and make his confession? How many nights?
And your comment to me that, “If you want to contend that Scripture teaches that one who does not want to confess the Lord Jesus is a true believer”, had no basis on which to be made and was out of line.
Please remove me from your ping list.
I agree, but be careful about criticizing Dobson on FR. 8 years ago I was flamed for calling out Dobson on his pharisaical political hackery.
So, if you are keeping score at home per James Dobson:
2008 - Fred Thompson is not a Christian
2016 - Donald Trump is a Christian
Tao is not God.
God is Tao.
And who got this from some unnamed, unverifiable (by us) source, and thus all we have is hearsay, out of which Trump is vehemently contended by some to be what outspoken Trump has not said himself.
You have created an issue where there isn’t one.
Rather, it is not me who trumpeted Trump as being a convert based on hearsay, but zealot supporters, and whose reaction to Biblical reproof of such is akin to Catholic Marian devotees.
Sounds like you want him, and if him, then all Christians, to come to your house and confess it to you before you accept his faith in Christ.
Which is more utterly unwarranted absurdity, as nothing was said about needing to personally confess to me, as instead if Trump would only say what Dobson says someone else said about him then the matter would be settled, presuming he at least basically lives it out.
And your comment to me that, “If you want to contend that Scripture teaches that one who does not want to confess the Lord Jesus is a true believer”, had no basis on which to be made and was out of line.
So unlike the other poster, your objection was not to my statement that "if Trump does not want to confess his conversion then it did not happen," but to not taking Dobson's word on it? In that case i apologize, however, you said you really saw no point in my comment, and yet the point is that we cannot simply take someone's word that someone said someone was converted when the subject himself does not himself testify of this profound change, esp. in the light of his characteristic outspokenness.
We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak; (2 Corinthians 4:13)
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world. (1 John 4:14)
Please remove me from your ping list.
Yes i will as is sadly fitting.
Oh?
>>>It's always a tell if you have to start with an insult. So I'll ask, have YOU read the Bible, and studied it? Because I'm not seeing any evidence of it here.
Once again, you've distorted things.
The fact that you can call a question like "have you read the Bible, and studied it?" an insult is telling to me.
No, it's a most important question. If you're going to judge things on behalf of Christians and speak with certainty on God's Word and how to interpret it, then you should know the Bible. And if you're going to judge things on behalf of Christians at all, you should either demonstrate you know the Bible, or say how well you know it.
Apparently you aren't willing to do either. And you also say that you don't "see any evidence of it here" that I've read and studied the Bible. Your conclusion is untrue, so if you don't see the evidence of my having read and studied the Bible, that says to me you don't recognize the evidence of it.
"In some way"? You don't think coming from nowhere, defeating sixteen GOP backed RINOs and all the press and a Rat political machine a quarter century in the making for the Clintons isn't some kind of indication? Based solely - solely, mind you - on backing the principles upon which America is based, which by the way ARE Christian principles? AND directly called Hillary the criminal she actually is, point by point, in public, as NO ONE has EVER been able to do? Or is all of that too subtle for you?
I have no idea if you are familiar with it at all, or not, but throughout the Bible God raised up and brought down too many leaders to count offhand, and there are examples of that from virtually beginning to end. Sometimes they are faithful people, and sometimes they aren't. And sometimes the faithful people do unfaithful things, and vice versa.
Here's an example:
Israel was under threat from the king of Syria. Israel defeated Syria once in battle, and the Syrians told their king that they should try again. They said the God of the Israelites was just a God of the hills, so they would fight Israel on the plain and defeat them there. This was God's response:
And there came a man of God, and spake unto the king of Israel, and said, Thus saith the Lord, Because the Syrians have said, The Lord is God of the hills, but he is not God of the valleys, therefore will I deliver all this great multitude into thine hand, and ye shall know that I am the Lord.
And they pitched one over against the other seven days. And so it was, that in the seventh day the battle was joined: and the children of Israel slew of the Syrians an hundred thousand footmen in one day. (1 Kings 20:28-29)
And Ahab the son of Omri did evil in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him.
And it came to pass, as if it had been a light thing for him to walk in the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, that he took to wife Jezebel the daughter of Ethbaal king of the Zidonians, and went and served Baal, and worshipped him.
And he reared up an altar for Baal in the house of Baal, which he had built in Samaria.
And Ahab made a grove; and Ahab did more to provoke the Lord God of Israel to anger than all the kings of Israel that were before him. (1 Kings 16:30-33)
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