Health warning for all Freepers using the Baking Soda / Dakin's Solution Oral Hygiene Protocol

FOR ALL FREEPERS WHO HAVE BEEN FOLLOWING THE BAKING SODA AND CLOROX-DAKIN'S SOLUTION PROTOCOL FOR ORAL HYGIENE AND TOOTH BRUSHING!!!

The CLOROX Company has changed its basic Clorox formula to make it "concentrated" but has ALSO added LAUNDRY chemicals!

I just went to the Clorox™ website because I noticed the "concentrated" label on that bottle you linked to and it worried me. . . I wanted to check what the concentration of Sodium Hypochlorite was in their "concentrated" product. . . and to my horror I learned that Clorox has CHANGED their entire product line. . . and their cap coding too!!!!

Clorox has just CHANGED all the formulas for CLOROX!!!!! They have tossed out the good old stand-by that has been a century old and replaced it with JUNK New formula with adulterations!!! They are also using the SAME COLOR CAP ON EVERY VARIETY!!!!!! They've thrown the baby out with the bathwater. I would NOT, REPEAT NOT!!! use any CLOROX product for hygienic use on the human body until further notice!!!!!

All of their Clorox Bleach Products now are being sold with the same color blue cap, instead of their old color coded cap system, where the dark blue cap indicated an unadulterated pure Sodium Hypochlorite Bleach product. Now they ALL have the dark blue cap! But that doesn't matter because ALL products have adulterations.

They do not make it easy to lean what the concentration is, but WORSE ALL of the Clorox products are now ADULTERATED with laundry additives.

Even the Product Safety Sheets do not list the concentrations of the ingredients. . . nor is the old original pure Clorox even listed any more. Apparently such data is now a corporate secret.

There seems to be no pure bleach Clorox anymore. I cannot find the old product at all on their website! At this point I do not know what substitutes there are for the discontinues product. . . but do NOT feel safe by using any Clorox product in your mouth!

For example their Regular Clorox now includes: "Sodium polyacrylate is used in laundry detergents to prevent soils from depositing on fabrics during the laundry cycle."

Another with the another blue cap bleach bottle which just says "Clorox" but at the bottom lists "High Efficiency" also adds an additional ingredient of "Sodium Xylene Sulfanate"!

I have sent an email to our doctors appraising them of the situation because this has been an important product for protocols for tooth and health care in our implant Dentistry practice.

What is the best way to mix this solution? Is is not feasible to mix a large batch of this liquid (in a properly sealed tight container) so that I may not have to create new batches frequently?

The current proper dilution of water to Clorox™ is 24 parts water to 1 part Clorox™. The Clorox company recently increased their basic retail concentration from what they had been selling to a stronger blend and added buffers to keep it at that concentration.

Unfortunately, once you dilute that commercial blend down to a level that is safe to use in oral human use, it is extremely unstable and cannot last long. It will only last at that dilution, even in a sealed container, for a few minutes to hours. In the open, its life is measured in minutes and must be used quickly after it is made before it turns to salt water. For this reason, you must make a new batch every time you use it.

Why is the connection between oral spirochetes/AD/other modern diseases not more widely publicized? Why hasn’t there been any large-scale studies if it is as easy as using this mouthwash to prevent so many diseases? Genuinely curious! Thanks for all the help.

Frankly, one of the reasons is to follow the money. Grants are issued to researchers looking for exotic causes. Grant money does not flow when simple causes are found to be the cause of disease. Grant money comes from government and drug companies who want complex causes that require expensive drugs to cure the diseases. A disease that can be prevented by an inexpensive oral hygiene procedure is the LAST thing they want to find.

For example, we can post the information about spirochetes on YouTube, but if we dare to mention replacing cleaning teeth by substituting baking soda for toothpaste as a way to prevent them and clean your teeth in a better way, cheaper way, the videos are pulled immediately because YouTube is owned by Google and Google gets millions of dollars of ads from makers of toothpaste. We've had our channel pulled because of that mention.

This sounds like a strange question, but can you tell me the process for making a new batch every time that you do? For example, are you literally juggling a huge bottle of bleach every morning and measuring out 1 tsp of bleach and then filling the glass rest of the way with water? It seems like there has to be a better way. Please share any tips at efficiency you can provide, as I know that convenience is the only way I am going to hold myself accountable to this routine.

Would it be possible to store the Germicidal bleach in a bottle such as this:
https://www.amazon.com/Amber-Boston-Round-Thick-Bottle/dp/B00OQQRW9G/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1473077150&sr=8-3&keywords=thick+pump+bottle
That is, a tightly sealed bottle with pump that will remain the purity of the bleach, and I can easily pump a bit out into a glass every day without having to juggle a large bottle of bleach.

OR, does the bleach need to stay in the provided manufacturer’s bottle? I am just trying to learn and make sure I do this the right way. I have spent the last month sporadically cleaning with Dakin’s solution (using adulterated Clorox with laundry additives - still very frustrated that Clorox decided to add crap into their product without making it clear) and now that I have a chance to talk to an expert, I want to make sure I am doing EVERYTHING right :)

It should be criminal what large companies and the media can get away with. They never have our best interest at heart, when more money is to be made.

Thanks

While every time you pour the bleach, it does lose some of its potency, it is not much. We've found the best way and safest way to mix the diluted Dakin's solution is to use a clear glass tumbler or jar, put the bleach in and the note where the level is and put a piece of colored tape, use a marking pen, or paint a line so that you can see exactly where the bleach line is inside the container. Then put the 24 parts of water in and similarly mark the level necessary for that. Then all you have to do from then on is pour the bleach to the line, then fill to the water line. Adding the water sufficiently mixes the dilution and you a good to go. Use it, throw the remainder out. Be careful not to splash it on your clothes or colored towels as it is may be still strong enough to bleach the color out.

By doing it that way, you are not trying to balance a small measuring spoon or the cap with your fingers which can be burned by the stronger solution. This way you can just easily pour it into the glass container then put it under the tap for the water.

Even with the brown glass, that pump is not going to work. The problem is the low dilution is just not stable. It will degrade rapidly due to that instability. A slightly lower dilution is used to sanitize eggs before packaging and before the Dakins can drip off the bottom of the egg, it's no longer Dakins, it's turned to salt water.

The stronger solution bleach doesn't have to stay in its original bottle but be sure to label it for what it is.

Hey Swordmaker, me again.

I believe I may not have explained my proposal adequately. My intention is to store the Germicidal Bleach in this squirt bottle (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017DCDYAA/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) and test to see how much a squirt from this bottle will yield. In this method, I will be able to squirt a measured amount of bleach into a container daily, and fill water to a line that marks the relevant amount of water required for the solution.

I have ordered the bottles I linked from Amazon, and after extensive testing, I have determined that each full squirt from this bottle yields approximately 1/3 tsp of Bleach. In line with the recipe, I would need to measure 8 tsp or 1.33 fl oz of water with one squirt of bleach.

I recognize that this may be hard to measure accurately, and I would like to normalize against variations in my recipe. One potential solution would be to squirt three squirts of Germicidal Bleach (approx. 1 tsp) on top of 4 fl oz (1/4 cup) of water.

I would hate to waste product by producing a solution of 1 tsp to 4 fl oz daily, only to use approx 15 mL and dispose of the rest. You previously said that a solution between 10 to 1 and 50 to 1 is safe. If I, for example, attempted to measure 1 fl oz of water and squirt 1 pump (1/3 tsp) of Germicidal Bleach, it would result in a ratio of approx 18-to-1. This would result in a slightly stronger solution, and would guard against variation in the amount of product that is squirted out.

In other words, this would allow for a buffer so that even if the squirt bottle decides to produce a smaller-than-normal squirt, I would still get the benefits of this rinse.

Do you have any input on my ideas? Do you see any flaws in my reasoning?

So are you saying baking soda is safe to brush with daily? And I could cut out toothpaste completely? How often is it safe to rinse with Bleach solution?

Don’t have anything against toothpaste, but I’m sure we get enough fluoride from drinking water, and why waste money on it if baking soda is superior?

Also, slightly related question but I have very sensitive teeth. Can you recommend a very soft toothbrush for me?

So are you saying baking soda is safe to brush with daily? And I could cut out toothpaste completely? How often is it safe to rinse with Bleach solution?

Baking soda is completely safe. The Mohs hardness scale rating of the enamel on your teeth is between 5 and 6. The Mohs hardness scale rating of baking Soda is 2.5 even in its hardest, crystalline form. The Mohs scale is a empirical scale based on what will actually scratch another substance with the higher the rating being the harder. Talc is the lowest at a Mohs rating of 1 with Diamond being the hardest with a Mohs rating of 10. A substance with a Mohs rating of 2.5 cannot scratch anything with a higher rating such as 5.

Baking soda is used in cooking and is considered a food ingredient.

Dakins Solution is sufficiently dilute you can safely use it daily, but we only recommend it once to twice a week because most people would not continue a daily regimen of it because of the taste although some patients say they get used to it or even grow to like it (those are a bit weird). It tastes like strong swimming pool water.

If you swallow any of it, the stomach acid will accelerate the normal progression of entropy and instantly convert any that reaches the stomach to water plus NaCl (ordinary salt) and not much of that. Do not increase the dilution as it will not improve efficacy and will be far more dangerous to the mucosal tissue in your mouth.

Personally, I'd stick to the twice a week maximum in the protocol for the use of the Dakins Solution of Clorox™ and water unless you are fighting a bad case of bleeding gums. By-the-way, using tap water is OK. Some patients thought it would be better to buy distilled water for this purpose, but the bleach kills anything in the tap water as well as in the mouth.

I have ordered the bottles I linked from Amazon, and after extensive testing, I have determined that each full squirt from this bottle yields approximately ⅓ tsp of Bleach. In line with the recipe, I would need to measure 8 tsp or 1.33 fl oz of water with one squirt of bleach.

That should work. (Obviously don't mix up the water and bleach bottles! LOL!) I'd replace the bleach or top it off when it got down to about half so it doesn't lose it's dilution to the air in the bottle, but that should work well. Great idea. I may do the same thing. Thanks.

As long as you are "close enough" to the formula for the dilution you'll be OK. After all how close is measuring by "cap fulls"? No where near accurate as your measuring by calibrated "squirts" which have a fixed capacity.

Also, slightly related question but I have very sensitive teeth. Can you recommend a very soft toothbrush for me?

Any good soft bristle tooth brush from a good maker is a good choice. Don't go higher... Oral B is what we give out in our office.

We strongly recommend our patients get a Water Pik or equivalent oral irrigator to use with the Dakins solution. They can be had on Amazon for as low as around $30. Also a power toothbrush with rotary action is better than any hand toothbrush.

Always replace your toothbrush after an illness (obvious reasons) and frequently even if you haven't been sick, i.e.every two months. The ends of the bristles wear away and get curved off and the brushing efficiency drops with curved bristle ends. When you do brush, you want to be sure to brush the gum line, because you have to get that area clean where the bacteria love to congregate clean.

Is it necessary to use other mouth rinse (for example Listerine) once you are on a regimen with the bleach/water blend? I imagine the bleach blend kills everything Listerine would? Or would you still recommend using a mouthwash and what brand and type? (Some use alcohol, some alcohol free, some use artificial sweeteners, others not).

Listerine ® in its own advertising claims to kill only 99% of the bacteria in your mouth. It says that because Listerine has about a 10 second kill time on bacteria. But the spirochetes we need to target turn into a "spore form" by rolling into a protective ball in just ABOUT FIVE seconds which can survive Listerine, peroxide, alcohol, or other antibiotic environment. After conditions become safe for them they merely unroll and go about their spirochete business.

The kill time of baking soda is about FIVE seconds so a few of the spirochetes are going to be missed as they have just enough time to make it into their protective spoor form before dying. That's why the protocol calls for the once or twice a week use of the bleach.

The kill time of the Dakin's Solution Bleach is TWO seconds, far faster than the five seconds it takes for even the fastest spirochete to form a spore form. So, no, you will not have to use anything after using the Dakin's Solution diluted bleach. It kills far more than anything else you can use. Listerine is far less effective than the bleach but is more tasty. Once you've used the bleach, there should be no bacteria of any kind still alive in your mouth.

So is there no benefit to the Listerine incorporate into my routine at all? Even for the purpose of the fluoride in the Listerine touching between my teeth?
Or would you say fluoride toothpaste daily plus municipal water is good enough?

Currently, my routine consists of: Morning:
1) Brushing with baking soda, getting between gums
2) Flossing gently
3) Bleach mouth rinse for 60 seconds
Night:
1) Brush with fluoride toothpaste.
2) Warm saltwater rinse

Sorry for all the questions. I am becoming very intrigued in improving my oral health since reading your threads. I have never had very good oral health and nobody ever taught me this growing up. I mean, I knew you were supposed to brush daily, but never really followed it much growing up. It was unfortunately a habit I didn’t develop young and I didn’t do much better as I became an adult.

To be perfectly honest I did not know flossing daily was important for gums and oral health in general. If embarrasses me to say but my parents did not floss daily and I thought flossing was merely a process of removing food that you can feel stuck in your teeth.

Your input is very valuable to me - it’s nice to get advice from somebody genuinely offering their help, and not just trying to sell a product. Much appreciated.

PS: Squirt bottle is working fantastically for the bleach. Would recommend you try it as well, if only to avoid juggle a large bottle of bleach more than you have to.

No problem with the questions.

I see nothing wrong, per se, except I do think that a daily bleach rinse is a bit over kill. twice a week is more than enough to keep the spirochetes at bar, even once a week is pretty good. Otherwise, keep up what you are doing.

Fluoride in municipal water and toothpaste is more than enough without adding any more.

Thanks for the squirt bottle idea. It IS working.

Any benefit to swapping the Flouride toothpaste to morning and baking soda, flossing, and bleach rinse (twice weekly) to the nighttime?

Got to thinking about it and I think I remember you saying bleach rinse would be effective before going to sleep? When exactly is bacteria worse in the mouth? Or does it matter much?

Also where might I add a waterpik into the routine?

Thank you for all the help! Since I’ve started taking better care of my teeth, I have noticed they seem pretty clean and white, but one thing I noticed is that the bottom center teeth (which are very smal) have brown stains on the back (inside the mouth). I imagine the brown collection is not plaque or the bleach solution would dissolve it?

No matter what I do it seems like I cannot reach this and get the stains cleaned. It seems like when I try to brush this area, I am not able to get enough friction to really get the stain off. Would you have any advice on this? I know a dentist cleaning could probably fix it (so I have scheduled an appointment in the next week) but is there any way to keep this clean with home dental care? Is possible that an electric toothbrush would be better at hitting this area?

One final question...
As I stated previously I am now brushing in the morning with baking soda, then flossing all teeth, then once or twice a week using the bleach solution AND in the evening I brush with ordinary fluoride toothpaste and mouth rinse with warm salt water. Would it be better to be brushing with Sensodyne Pronamel in evenings or Sensodyne Extra Whitening (this is what I currently use)?

The bleach will eventually dissolve plaque but it does take time, it's not instantaneous. Plaque is essentially a rock. It's probably tartar or just stain from tea or coffee or smoking, if you are a smoker.

Yes, it is likely the visit for a cleaning by a dental hygienist at the dentist will take care of it. Sometimes it takes a deep cleaning to get the most ingrained stains. A power toothbrush, one of the rotary types will be better than anything you can do with your hand powered toothbrush. . . but don't over do either type. Consistent daily cleaning is better than too much. Don't use any type of abrasive cleaner.

Use Sensodyne if you have sensitive teeth, i.e. feeling pain in your gums or teeth. That's what it is for. Otherwise it is unnecessary expense over regular toothpaste of any other good brand. If you like it, it's OK to use for that reason. In our experience a couple of weeks of our protocol takes care of any tooth sensitivity by healing sores and strengthening damaged gums and weakened teeth.

Let me know about your visit and the results on the stains.

I just got out of my cleaning. They said my gums are very healthy! I only had one small cavity. They said there was hardly any plaque in my teeth and they were impressed. I haven’t been to have a cleaning in years but it seems like i never got compliments like this. I think the bleach and baking soda (and flossing) is doing its job. I think the cavity may have occurred before I got serious about my dental health. Is it possible that the bleach solution can actually heal a cavity that has formed, or can the bleach prevent me from getting new cavities in the future? I don’t plan on having any cavities ever again! (:

Congratulations on a great dental visit, riffdex!

No, the Bleach protocol cannot heal an existing cavity, but because it kills the bacteria that is eating away at the enamel and pulp of the tooth it can prevent the cavity from getting any worse after it got started. It still needs to be cleaned out of dead material, under cut, and then filled with a repair material, either amalgam or something that matches the color of the tooth if it is visible.

Yes, regular use of the bleach can prevent future cavities, but so can just regular brushing. Anything that disturbs a build up of bacteria in one place will prevent carries by simply moving the nasty bugs away from where they are doing their nasty things. The bleach is better because it just doesn’t evict them, it kills them. The bleach also helps by dissolving small patches of plaque under which carries bacteria can hide and work away at the enamel and finally break through and eat away at the pulp, digging hidden cavities. No plaques, no hiding places.

Dentists are an unusual breed of professional. They want their patients NOT to need them, and work hard to accomplish that!

Thanks for the response. I’m scheduled to get my cavity taken care of tomorrow morning. I won’t be having another cavity ever again because I am very serious about my dental health and will be for the rest of my life (: the bleach protocol has given me the tool to effectively take care of my mouth and feeling like I can accomplish this without breaking the bank.

I was amazed because when I first started your routine (which was o course when I first started flossing as well), my gums were bleeding like crazy everytime I flossed. They also really hurt to floss. I still have a bit of pain when I floss but I didn’t really notice that the bleeding stopped. So when the dentist remarked how healthy my gums were (and she said “wow, your gums aren’t bleeding at all, that’s very unusual for my patients!”) I remembered how bad it was a mere few weeks ago.

To follow up on the staining, after my cleaning (as expected) the brown staining is completely gone. My teeth look so refreshed - much whiter than they were before. Would you say it is okay to use any of the over the counter whitening products (such as 5 minute whitening system - https://www.walmart.com/ip/Plus-White-5-Minute-Premier-Speed-Teeth-Whitening-Gel-2-oz/23788101 or alternative)? Or should I be able to maintain perfectly white teeth with a cleaning every 6 months and my routine?

Also, I gotta ask, and I think I know what answer you’ll give me but... This guy at the gym was telling me Mercury fillings are problematic. He recommended Mercury free dentistry . Any validity to his concerns? Guy was, admittedly, a bit of a nut.

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.