Video at link
Posted on 10/21/2012 7:39:22 AM PDT by DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis
Following are excerpts from an interview with Egyptian researcher Muhammad Galaa Idris, which aired on Al-Rahma TV on September 7, 2012.
Muhammad Galaa Idris: They now say that the worse genocide in history was committed by Nazism and Hitler – the Holocaust. In my view, Hitler was one of the most fanatical believers in the Torah.
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To those who believe that [the Torah] is a divine book, I say: If it is indeed a divine book, revealed by God, why do you blame Hitler for what he did to the Jews? The genocides that you talk about, which were mentioned in the Torah, were all committed by order of God. If they were by order of God, how can I blame Hitler? Hitler was a righteous believer, according to the writings of the Old Testament.
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Video at link
Muslims don’t believe in free will.
Ranted by someone who has obviously never read the Torah.
Muslims are amazing...
And many, many of Hitler’s people fled to good jobs in Egypt. You might say they became Czars in the Egyptian afministration.
Nuke these h*llholes. Before they get nuclear-armed.
Read God’s commandments to the Jews on how they were to treat the Canaanites. They were instructed to do exactly what Hitler did to the Jews in the Holocaust.
Kill all males, reserving the women for captivity. In some cases they were instructed to kill all humans, including women and children, and in a few all living things, including the animals.
The guy had a reasonably decent point to argue from, though he structured it poorly.
For one thing, he questions the validity of the Torah as being from God, whereas traditional Muslim teaching has always held that both the Old and New Testaments are inspired, though of lesser value than the Koran, and that they are possibly corrupted.
IOW, the Mormon explanation.
Should have pointed out that the guy’s claim that Hitler did what he did because he believed in the Torah is idiotic.
Um, you see there was this dude named Moses. He went up on a mountain and talked to the Big Daddy. He came down from that mountain with these really cool stone tablets. If I recall correctly, one of the things written on the stone tablets was, "thou shall not kill."
Muslims are very good at coming up with the most ridiculous cazy crud you can think of.
There are a couple of problems with your statement. First, Hitler was nominally a Christian. And if Hitler was the least bit of a Christian he would believe in the new covenant.
Second, God did not command Hitler to kill the Jews.
Lastly, Muslims worship a false god. They have no God to be commanded to do anything. All Muslims are damned to hell. God’s will is done on heaven and earth. Most Muslims in the world today live in a hell on earth, and deservedly so.
Hitler was inspired more by the writings of Darwin than of the Old Testament. However the Old Testament committed many killings like the Holocaust.
Ping.
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Thanks DeoVindiceSicSemperTyrannis.[snip] Muhammad Galaa Idris: ...In my view, Hitler was one of the most fanatical believers in the Torah... If it is indeed a divine book, revealed by God, why do you blame Hitler for what he did to the Jews? The genocides that you talk about, which were mentioned in the Torah, were all committed by order of God. If they were by order of God, how can I blame Hitler? Hitler was a righteous believer, according to the writings of the Old Testament. [/snip]Wow, I must have missed that part of the Torah. |
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Martin Luther: The Jews and Their Lies(1543)At the beginning of his career, Luther was apparently sympathetic to Jewish resistance to the Catholic Church. He wrote, early in his career:
But Luther expected them to convert to his purified Christianity. When they did not, he turned violently against Jews. It is impossible for modern people to read the horrible passages below and not to think of the burning of synagogues in November 1938 on Kristallnacht. Nor would one wish to excuse Luther for this text. A number of points must, however, be made. The most important concerns the language used. Luther used violent and vulgar language throughout his career....We do not expect religious figures to use this sort of language in the modern world, but it was not uncommon in the early 16th century. Second, although Luther's comments seem to be proto-Nazi, they are better seen as part of tradition of Medieval Christian anti-Semitism. While there is little doubt that Christian anti-Semitism laid the social and cultural basis for modern anti-Semitism, modern anti-Semitism does differ in being based on pseudo-scientific notions of race. The Nazis imprisoned and killed Jews who had converted to Christianity: Luther would have welcomed them. None of this justifies what follows, but it may help to comprehend what is happening. In 1994, the Church Council of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in Americarejected Luther's anti-Semitic writings. Martin Luther: The Jews and Their Lies(extracts) I had made up my mind to write no more either about the Jews or against them. But since I learned that these miserable and accursed people do not cease to lure to themselves even us, that is, the Christians, I have published this little book, so that I might be found among those who opposed such poisonous activities of the Jews who warned the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have believed that a Christian could be duped by the Jews into taking their exile and wretchedness upon himself. However, the devil is the god of the world, and wherever God's word is absent he has an easy task, not only with the weak but also with the strong. May God help us. Amen. *** He did not call them Abraham's children, but a "brood of vipers" [Matt. 3:7]. Oh, that was too insulting for the noble blood and race of Israel, and they declared, "He has a demon' [Matt 11:18]. Our Lord also calls them a "brood of vipers"; furthermore in John 8 [:39,44] he states: "If you were Abraham's children ye would do what Abraham did.... You are of your father the devil. It was intolerable to them to hear that they were not Abraham's but the devil's children, nor can they bear to hear this today. *** Therefore the blind Jews are truly stupid fools... *** Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people. *** ...their blindness and arrogance are as solid as an iron mountain. *** Learn from this, dear Christian, what you are doing if you permit the blind Jews to mislead you. Then the saying will truly apply, "When a blind man leads a blind man, both will fall into the pit" [cf. Luke 6:39]. You cannot learn anything from them except how to misunderstand the divine commandments... *** Therefore be on your guard against the Jews, knowing that wherever they have their synagogues, nothing is found but a den of devils in which sheer selfglory, conceit, lies, blasphemy, and defaming of God and men are practiced most maliciously and veheming his eyes on them. *** Moreover, they are nothing but thieves and robbers who daily eat no morsel and wear no thread of clothing which they have not stolen and pilfered from us by means of their accursed usury. Thus they live from day to day, together with wife and child, by theft and robbery, as archthieves and robbers, in the most impenitent security. *** However, they have not acquired a perfect mastery of the art of lying; they lie so clumsily and ineptly that anyone who is just a little observant can easily detect it. But for us Christians they stand as a terrifying example of God's wrath. *** If I had to refute all the other articles of the Jewish faith, I should be obliged to write against them as much and for as long a time as they have used for inventing their lies that is, longer than two thousand years. *** ...Christ and his word can hardly be recognized because of the great vermin of human ordinances. However, let this suffice for the time being on their lies against doctrine or faith. *** Did I not tell you earlier that a Jew is such a noble, precious jewel that God and all the angels dance when he farts? *** Alas, it cannot be anything but the terrible wrath of God which permits anyone to sink into such abysmal, devilish, hellish, insane baseness, envy, and arrogance. If I were to avenge myself on the devil himself I should be unable to wish him such evil and misfortune as God's wrath inflicts on the Jews, compelling them to lie and to blaspheme so monstrously, in violation of their own conscience. Anyway, they have their reward for constantly giving God the lie. *** No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants. *** ...but then eject them forever from this country. For, as we have heard, God's anger with them is so intense that gentle mercy will only tend to make them worse and worse, while sharp mercy will reform them but little. Therefore, in any case, away with them! *** Over and above that we let them get rich on our sweat and blood, while we remain poor and they such the marrow from our bones. *** I brief, dear princes and lords, those of you who have Jews under your rule if my counsel does not please your, find better advice, so that you and we all can be rid of the unbearable, devilish burden of the Jews, lest we become guilty sharers before God in the lies, blasphemy, the defamation, and the curses which the mad Jews indulge in so freely and wantonly against the person of our Lord Jesus Christ, this dear mother, all Christians, all authority, and ourselves. Do not grant them protection, safeconduct, or communion with us.... .With this faithful counsel and warning I wish to cleanse and exonerate my conscience. *** Let the government deal with them in this respect, as I have suggested. But whether the government acts or not, let everyone at least be guided by his own conscience and form for himself a definition or image of a Jew. *** However, we must avoid confirming them in their wanton lying, slandering, cursing, and defaming. Nor dare we make ourselves partners in their devilish ranting and raving by shielding and protecting them, by giving them food, drink, and shelter, or by other neighborly *** Therefore we Christians, in turn, are obliged not to tolerate their wanton and conscious blasphemy. *** Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. *** What shall we Christians do with this rejected and condemned people, the Jews? Since they live among us, we dare not tolerate their conduct, now that we are aware of their lying and reviling and blaspheming. If we do, we become sharers in their lies, cursing and blasphemy. Thus we cannot extinguish the unquenchable fire of divine wrath, of which the prophets speak, nor can we convert the Jews. With prayer and the fear of God we must practice a sharp mercy to see whether we might save at least a few from the glowing flames. We dare not avenge ourselves. Vengeance a thousand times worse than we could wish them already has them by the throat. I shall give you my sincere advice: First to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them. This is to be done in honor of our Lord and of Christendom, so that God might see that we are Christians, and do not condone or knowingly tolerate such public lying, cursing, and blaspheming of his Son and of his Christians. For whatever we tolerated in the past unknowingly and I myself was unaware of it will be pardoned by God. But if we, now that we are informed, were to protect and shield such a house for the Jews, existing right before our very nose, in which they lie about, blaspheme, curse, vilify, and defame Christ and us (as was heard above), it would be the same as if we were doing all this and even worse ourselves, as we very well know. Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed. For they pursue in them the same aims as in their synagogues. Instead they might be lodged under a roof or in a barn, like the gypsies. This will bring home to them that they are not masters in our country, as they boast, but that they are living in exile and in captivity, as they incessantly wail and lament about us before God. Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in which such idolatry, lies, cursing and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them. (remainder omitted) Fourth, I advise that their rabbis be forbidden to teach henceforth on pain of loss of life and limb. For they have justly forfeited the right to such an office by holding the poor Jewscaptive with the saying of Moses (Deuteronomy 17 [:10 ff.]) in which he commands them to obey their teachers on penalty of death, although Moses clearly adds: "what they teach you in accord with the law of the Lord." Those villains ignore that. They wantonly employ the poor people's obedience contrary to the law of the Lord and infuse them with this poison, cursing, and blasphemy. In the same way the pope also held us captive with the declaration in Matthew 16 {:18], "You are Peter," etc, inducing us to believe all the lies and deceptions that issued from his devilish mind. He did not teach in accord with the word of God, and therefore he forfeited the right to teach. Fifth, I advise that safeconduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews. For they have no business in the countryside, since they are not lords, officials, tradesmen, or the like. Let they stay at home. (...remainder omitted). Sixth, I advise that usury be prohibited to them, and that all cash and treasure of silver and gold be taken from them and put aside for safekeeping. The reason for such a measure is that, as said above, they have no other means of earning a livelihood than usury, and by it they have stolen and robbed from us all they possess. Such money should now be used in no other way than the following: Whenever a Jew is sincerely converted, he should be handed one hundred, two hundred, or three hundred florins, as personal circumstances may suggest. With this he could set himself up in some occupation for the support of his poor wife and children, and the maintenance of the old or feeble. For such evil gains are cursed if they are not put to use with God's blessing in a good and worthy cause. Seventh, I commend putting a flail, an ax, a hoe, a spade, a distaff, or a spindle into the hands of young, strong Jews and Jewesses and letting them earn their bread in the sweat of their brow, as was imposed on the children of Adam (Gen 3[:19]}. For it is not fitting that they should let us accursed Goyim toil in the sweat of our faces while they, the holy people, idle away their time behind the stove, feasting and farting, and on top of all, boasting blasphemously of their lordship over the Christians by means of our sweat. No, one should toss out these lazy rogues by the seat of their pants. *** But what will happen even if we do burn down the Jews' synagogues and forbid them publicly to praise God, to pray, to teach, to utter God's name? They will still keep doing it in secret. If we know that they are doing this in secret, it is the same as if they were doing it publicly. for our knowledge of their secret doings and our toleration of them implies that they are not secret after all and thus our conscience is encumbered with it before God. *** Accordingly, it must and dare not be considered a trifling matter but a most serious one to seek counsel against this and to save our souls from the Jews, that is, from the devil and from eternal death. My advice, as I said earlier, is: First, that their synagogues be burned down, and that all who are able toss in sulphur and pitch; it would be good if someone could also throw in some hellfire. That would demonstrate to God our serious resolve and be evidence to all the world that it was in ignorance that we tolerated such houses, in which the Jews have reviled God, our dear Creator and Father, and his Son most shamefully up till now but that we have now given them their due reward. *** I wish and I ask that our rulers who have Jewish subjects exercise a sharp mercy toward these wretched people, as suggested above, to see whether this might not help (though it is doubtful). They must act like a good physician who, when gangrene has set in, proceeds without mercy to cut, saw, and burn flesh, veins, bone, and marrow. Such a procedure must also be followed in this instance. Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them, as Moses did in the wilderness, slaying three thousand lest the whole people perish. They surely do not know what they are doing; moreover, as people possessed, they do not wish to know it, hear it, or learn it. There it would be wrong to be merciful and confirm them in their conduct. If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs, so that we do not become partakers of their abominable blasphemy and all their other vices and thus merit God's wrath and be damned with them. I have done my duty. Now let everyone see to his. I am exonerated." *** My essay, I hope, will furnish a Christian (who in any case has no desire to become a Jew) with enough material not only to defend himself against the blind, venomous Jews, but also to become the foe of the Jews' malice, lying, and cursing, and to understand not only that their belief is false but that they are surely possessed by all devils. May Christ, our dear Lord, convert them mercifully and preserve us steadfastly and immovably in the knowledge of him, which is eternal life. Amen. |
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But yes, I agree with both of you that the general theme for mass slaughter to exterminate ethnicities is a general theme in the Old Testament. After all:
1 Samuel 15:3
King James Version (KJV)
Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.
Now that IS the point of the ‘wipe them out, they are beyond redemption’. Perhaps if you were totally evil, you could hate the righteous and want to ‘wipe them out, they are beyond corruption’ but that still would be a corruption of the Torah. A complete 180 mirror image is still backwards from reality.
My point is, to excuse the Holocaust, the murder of the innocent by a madman, by trying to mirror the command to destroy evil to protect the innocent and completely ignore all the framework of the evil and why it is so corrupting of an influence is PURE evil at work. By the same logic a woman who fights being raped is a violent person and should be punished. Evil to the core.
And for your information I read the Torah every year, and the Tanach and the New Testament. Have read, studied and tried to understand the Law of God for years, every day of the year.
Might I suggest you go back and read the Torah yourself, this time starting at the beginning and at least go through till the Psalms. It is real hard to understand what is going on in any book by picking a chapter or couple of paragraphs out of the middle and writing a book report on them. God is a very complex guy, He deserves a decent in context reading.
The reading on the side fills in some of the practices of the Canaanite culture, such as the statue of Moloch, a hollow bronze Idol of a human form with a bulls head 10 foot tall that was filled with wood and burned till it glowed red. Then people would throw their first born baby into its arms to watch it sizzle.
To put it in a more modern context, I went to the museum and saw an old Cannanite temple site. The center altar stone had a cresent moon on its back, just like the ones on top of all the Mosques.
The Israelites failed to complete the job... They’re back! Only now, they just wrap their children with explosives. I wish the Israelites had the heart to complete the job back then, for the incredible amount of suffering caused by the Canaanite descendants throughout history. They have wiped out the Persian Culture, Caused the Dark Ages, wipe out the Egyptians and many other cultures. It seems, strangly enough, that God was right! Funny thing, always seems to work out that way in the end.
They obviously haven’t read the parts about what happens to those The LORD allows to punish His people, or they would be repenting with many tears, sackcloth and great fear.
“Wow, I must have missed that part of the Torah.”
Actually, they are right there at the ends of Leviticus and Deuteronomy. He is saying that Hitler was visiting the wrath of G-d on the Jews by trying to annihilate them as was warned if they violated the Torah. But if he believes that the Torah is Divine, he must also believe in the divinity of the passages that speak of G-d’s eventual forgiveness and the ingathering of the exiles.
In brief, Hitler was at most unconsciously carrying out a prophesy, not obeying a Divine command, and Idris and his fellow Islamofascists are opposing that same prophesy when they call for the destruction of Israel, and in the end will suffer the same fate as Hitler.
IOW, what he’s saying is, anyone and everyone is justified when annihilating Jews.
More than justified. It’s a commandment. But it’s actually a fool’s errand, as has been proven every last time someone has tried it.
Or as Latma TV renders it in song:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8S2vLcArd8g
A. The Canaanites were not Arabs, and the Arabs are primarily descended from related peoples, not Canaanites. But then the Jews themselves are closely related genetically and linguistically to both the Canaanites and the Arabs. With the exception of the Jews, and possibly the Chinese and Japanese, it is pretty much meaningless to talk about continuity of a single “people” from 3000 years ago to today, except of course in a geographical sense. There were no English people then, not to mention of course no Americans. The Moabites are gone, as are the Amalekites and the Midianites. The Egyptians are the same people only in a geographical sense, as are the Greeks.
B. My point was simply that the command God gave the Jews in the Torah was pretty much exactly the same command Hitler gave the SS. Kill ‘em all. You may believe, quite possibly rightly, that God was in the right to do so while Hitler was wrong. But you quite simply cannot show that they were not doing the same thing. This makes it impossible for you to say Hitler was doing something that was inherently wrong, as you say genocide ISN’T always wrong, being ok to do if God has told you to.
C.Per your claim that God hates those who kill their babies and oppress the poor, and that this therefore justifies the genocide of the Canaanites. How does it help those babies or those poor Canaanites (the ones being oppressed) to have another people come in and kill them all? If that was really the issue, why not rescue the oppressed instead of killing them?
FWIW, I’ve read the entire Bible through perhaps half a dozen times, besides decades of additional study.
A Islam uses the same religious symbol as the Canaanites, and Islam is a bastardized religion made up of Arab customs, Gods, Judaism and Christianity. Some how, the symbol and customs of the Canaanites ended up being the symbol and customs of the “modern” Muslim.
B You missed the point exactly as I put forth in my example, so I appreciate the support. All killing is not the same, the commandment says do not murder, not do not kill. Perhaps I should try stating it a bit different, it makes a big difference who you are killing, innocents, or Nazi’s are not the same. Morality is based on fine points such as these.
C Perhaps we should rescue Jeffery Dhalmer from indigestion? You show an amazing prediection to choose evil to “rescue” over good. Face with World War II would you be a Nazi and save the world for the betterment of the human race, or would you be and American and save the world for the freedom of the human race?
Can you tell the difference? Or has situation ethics so rotted your foundation that your boat floats?
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