http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3
Posted on 09/16/2012 11:52:44 AM PDT by fabian
Now celebrating 52 years of helping people on the radio! For over half a century Roy Masters has been helping people overcome their most difficult problems. As the nation’s first and longest running radio counselor, Roy Masters has advised callers with a unique ability to hear inner problems, heal fears and sexual stresses, and help people take charge of their own lives. Great show and exactly what the world needs! Here is a radio show stations page... http://www.fhu.com/radiostations.html
Well played.
You got that one wrong too...I was not comparing myself to others nor exalting myself as i know it is from God to not sin. You will not allow yourself to know that. Too bad...and then you go and vilify those that have found that way. Shame on you.
http://www.manifestation.com/neurotoys/eliza.php3
no, you took a quote from a previous conversation, not the one we were talking about. And I was not comparing anyways...simply stating my gratitude that I am not deluded and thanking God....not the same at all from your bible passage. I don’t expect anything better from you. Would be nice though. You have a poor debating style and attitude...just masked over with your false piety.
Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Elsie, I think the difference between the sinner and the self-righteous, as Jesus illustrated, is based on God’s grace opening one’s eyes to the true depth of our sin, how totally interwoven it is with both our minds and our hearts:
Jer 17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?
The less mature individual, one who has never been bitterly disappointed to find deep sin in their own heart, can imagine their own perfection. Sure, those who live among Christians will dress it up with some token words of humility, grace, atonement, etc. But they’ve never been shaken to the core by the sight of their own sin. They still have self-confidence it is doable, with a little help from God, or some higher power, or whatever.
Notice, for example, the confident man in Jesus’ parable. Did he take credit for his righteousness? Not at all. He thanked God he was so good. Isn’t that nice of him? Then he proceeded to list all those superficial things that in his mind made him so good. He was his own judge, so how could he possibly come out wrong. He rubber stamped everything he did, so naturally he was perfect. He had no need of Jesus:
Luk 5:31 And Jesus answering said unto them, They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. [32] I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.
Now Jesus encountered one of these self-approved people in real life, and what did Jesus find out about this guy? That he had never taken that deep difficult look into his own soul:
Luk 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? [19] And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none is good, save one, that is, God. [20] Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother. [21] And he said, All these have I kept from my youth up. [22] Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
See how he called Jesus good, and Jesus challenged him on it. That by itself should halt the mouth of anyone promoting their own goodness. Jesus clearly says only God is good. Even our noblest attempts at perfection fall short of the glory of righteousness that belongs alone to God:
Isa 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
So we, like the rich young ruler, look at our life, look at our own heart, and see bright white robes of goodness. God sees filthy rags. Who is right? As Paul says, Let God be true, but every man a liar (Rom 3:4)
And what does God, in the person of Jesus, tell us about the rich young ruler? That only because his understanding of goodness was so defective was he able to think he could earn it by performance art, as it were. What did you do? I did this, that and the other, and I did it since I was very young. Well and good, go sell everything, give away your wealth, and follow Jesus.
And the young man blinked. By walking away, he says, in effect, “Oops, no can do, Jesus. I’ve got my wealth and I’m keeping it. That stuff means more to me than you do.” You have to give the fellow credit, though, for being honest. Ananias and Saphira were also attached to their wealth, but they tried to lie to the Holy Spirit of God Himself, and it didn’t go well.
Which gets to one of the most basic problems in achieving the sinless state, self-honesty. Consider the story of Jesus rescuing the adulteress from being stoned to death. What did he say was the criteria for stoning her?
Joh 8:7 So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
Without sin. And what was the reaction? From the oldest to the youngest, as they were forced to look inward, each in turn, according to their maturity, realized their unworthiness to be the one to cast that first stone.
But without self-honesty, what do we have? How can we possibly see our own sin when we lie to ourselves in the first place? If, for example, we call people unkind names, in contradiction to the express teaching of Jesus, we can rationalize the sin away by claiming we had a right motive, even though Jesus grants us no such excuse.
Or we can charge that the belief in Jesus as God was a late invention not found in the early church, but when confronted with clear evidence from Polycarp and others we were wrong, we refuse to admit our error. Worse, we refuse to admit our own error while insisting that others admit their errors. That kind of double standard is hypocrisy, which Jesus accounts as a grievous sin, the chief sin of the Pharisees, far more damning than mere lust for too much sex or too much food or too much drink:
1Sam 16:7 But the LORD said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart.
One last thought. The Christian should not be discouraged that true holiness is so hard to achieve in this life. Even for the rich young ruler there was hope:
Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.
But how then should the Christian think about his efforts to live a Godly life? Should he give up in despair? Should he frantically search out the latest self-hypnosis techniques to quiet that inner voice telling him he is falling short of the glory of God? Or should he emulate the Apostle Paul?
Php 3:8 Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, [9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: [10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; [11] If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. [12] Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. [13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, [14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.
Amen, Paul.
Peace,
SR
She misapplied the scripture because she judges me and thinks it is rightness. You guys live and debate so much from the bible, yet it is not coming from your own understanding. Very rote and dry.
I have been through my fire with God and have sat still and prayed silently long enough over the years to become truly reborn...not reborn in my mind with a bunch of learned truth. But truly changed within and I am so happy and grateful!
Let me ask you this...IF you ever slip up and sin - and we ALL have that propensity - what happens? Do you confess your sin before God and ask for his forgiveness and then continue on? Or are you saying that it is not possible for you to EVER sin now that you are following Masters?
Fabian, it is NOT Elsie who is claiming to be sinless here. A "poor debating style and attitude" is one that ignores what the other has been saying and that continues to state things that the other has NOT said. And "false piety" is a trait you are exhibiting by stating you are not a sinner, that you never sin and that you are holy and perfect before God. NOBODY can be as holy as God unless they have been clothed in the righteousness of Jesus Christ:
What is more, I consider everything a loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have lost all things. I consider them garbage, that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ — the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith. (Philippians 3:8,9)
I read your excellent comments AFTER I posted mine. Pretty cool how we both thought of the same passage of Scripture, though. ;o)
I should have added that resorting to ad hominem attacks are also used in lieu of actual evidence and refutation. Again, a disciple is not greater than his master, or Obermeister in this case.
The passage in question was not written by Elsie. God gave it to us so we know his truth, so that those who think they are righteous would realize they have not seen themselves for who they truly are, and so that those who are broken over their sin would have a hope of forgiveness. You found your own place in that picture. Don’t blame Elsie for what God wrote.
As for being through fire, you don’t know any of us in person. No one who truly believes in Jesus is just reciting words. We have lived these truths. Sometimes through great pain and sorrow, the depth of which you have no idea. We have come to Christ only by coming to the end of all our own resources, and have thrown ourselves on his mercy and found his grace.
God knows our hearts. You do not. Yet you condemn us for our love for him and the words he gave us as his gift of love to us. If we are born again, it is by his act of love to us, not by our performance of deeds or techniques. The new birth, Jesus says, is from above. You cannot hypnotize yourself into it. It is a gift of God, only ever given to sinners, and we rejoice in it.
Amen. :)
You cannot possibly know what and how we understand the gospel of our salvation. What you term "rote and dry" is simply the ability to apply Scriptural truth to the questions being asked. If I know what God has said about a certain thing, I am better equipped to give an answer to anyone who asks me of the "hope" that is in me. Nobody wants to hear boatbums' philosophy or boatbums' gospel - it is way too an important issue to leave it up to fallible human beings to tell us, not when we can KNOW from the very word of God, Himself. The Bible SAYS that it is GOD-BREATHED which means that every word is inspired by the Holy Spirit of God and not one word is omitted that we must know. That is why we CAN trust what Scripture says, and the Gospel is clearly stated.
You say that you "have sat still and prayed silently long enough over the years to become truly reborn...not reborn in my mind with a bunch of learned truth. But truly changed within", but what is your mind if not your internal spirit? Your mind is your connection to reality and the new spirit nature we get when we are born again comes through faith in Jesus Christ - it is not something that just happens if we sit still long enough. I am not belittling your "change" that you are happy about, but it is not the rebirth Jesus spoke about if it doesn't come from the way HE said it must - and that is through belief, faith, trusting in Jesus Christ to be our Savior.
Do not let yourself be turned away from knowing the truth of God as He revealed to us in Holy Scripture - it is a HUGE part, though, of course, not the ONLY part of knowing Him. Don't allow yourself to be deceived from the simplicity that is in Christ. It is FAR from rote and definitely not dry, but wonderful, freeing, uplifting and full of everlasting joy and peace.
Thank you for not JUDGING my debating style.
Now just WHY would we do THAT?
Could it be...
Jeremiah 17:9
The heart is deceitful above all things and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?
It sounds much like the 'burning busom' of MORMONism fame.
Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.
While Fabian listens to Masters daily; to see if there is anything more to learn from him.
More pure judgement from you...I rarely listen to him now as I am fulfilled. I do still support him and turn other people onto him....people that see him for what he truly is...A blessed Jew now turned Christian.
Eerily close!
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