[OKSooner]

Input welcome from all. Of course those of the Mormon faith are welcome to voice their position on this thread, but I'm also particularly interested in the opinion of the Lutheran, Catholic, and Charismatic members of FR.

And I'm "just axin'", because "I just want to know."

Can someone give me a Lutheran Ping?

[x]

See the article in this month's First Things: "Mormonism Obsessed with Christ".

The writer says that Smith and Mormonism understood as concrete and material things that other Christians considered metaphorical or metaphysical. So God's body had to be physical and material. Heaven had to be a place with a spacial location or locations in our universe. "Holy garments" had to have an actual material equivalent. Religious community, authority, and responsibilities had to be more concretely described and instituted than they were in most other denominations.

I don't know how accurate he is, but it does explain many of the features of Mormonism that strike others as "strange" or "weird." Of course, 19th century Christians did tend to understand the Bible in a more literal sense than later Christians did.

[Mike Darancette]

No Triune Baptism, no biscuit.

[SZonian]

Your question is asking about the doctrine, not mormons in general, which, in reading the responses indicates many can’t tell the difference.

I suppose I shouldn’t answer, being an ex-mormon, I’ve already seen attempts to marginalize any response I may give. I’m bound to be considered; “without authority to speak on the matter”, a “moonbat”, a “mormon hater”, etc. but I will anyway.

In a nutshell, the doctrines and teachings of mormonism that deal with salvation are in direct conflict with Christianity. The nature of Christ is in direct conflict with established Christian teachings.

The lack of any evidences of the civilizations described in the BoM provide additional proof that the BoM is a fraud. The false prophecies of not only JS, but others proves they were false prophets as warned of in the Bible.

There is much more, but the entire construct of mormonism is built upon a faulty premise that God and Christ not only got it wrong numerous times in the Bible, but that they were also liars.

The Bible says that the next time Jesus shows up we’ll all know about it. He won’t sneak into the woods to see one man.

I guess the question is; Who lied, God or JS?

The mormons themselves, are for the most part, good and decent people. They’ve just elected to suspend belief and follow a religion that depends on marginalizing God and Christ as nothing more than exalted men and errant at that.

[airedale]

They consider themselves Christian, but I don’t know of a single mainline Christian faith that agrees with them. What you’ll find if you go to the various faiths websites looking for the reasons they don’t you’ll find something to the effect that because the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints reject most of the central Christian doctrines that all Christian churches agree with they can’t be Christian. For example the LDS Church rejects the idea of the Trinity and there beliefs on the nature of God and Jesus are very different than other Christian faiths.. There are many other issues. The LDS Church (I’m not an LDS member) thinks that the other Christian faiths had Greek thought/legends overlaying the true faith and thus distorting and creating a need to restore the true faith. You can read a bit about it here: http://mormonbeliefs.org/mormon_beliefs/mormon-beliefs-the-great-apostasy-and-the-restoration and http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1988.htm/ensign%20october%201988.htm/whither%20the%20early%20church.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0 which lay out the points where they think the rest of the Christian faiths got it wrong. If you read those two articles (many other available but stay away from Wikipedia since it covers a lot of other issues dealing with other faiths) you’ll see where the issues lay and why the Christian Churches from the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics all Protestant denominations don’t consider them Christian, because of their rejection of central Christian doctrines. Pretty much all Christian faiths accept the Nicene Creed as essential beliefs of Christianity.

The LDS Church feels there is the true faith called to reform all the rest of us. That’s why they believe they are Christian. Our differences are theological and hit the core of each others beliefs and I don’t see any way that the two sides can ever come to an agreement and have the rest of Christianity accept them as members of the Christian faith community.

Does that make them bad or evil people of course not. Does it mean they are ineligible to be President of the United States, No. The Mormons that I know are great people with conservative family and financial values that do a lot of charitable works. Their moral beliefs aren’t any different than the more conservative Christian faiths and far more in line with the Conservatives than are say the Methodists or Episcopal or the Lutheran leadership (members in those denominations tend to be more conservative than their leadership). I have no problem in voting for a member of the LDS Church for any office because they are a member of that church. I would have a problem in voting for one if he had a record like Harry Reed. My problem with Mitt Romney is not that he’s a Mormon rather that he’s a progressive Republican. If my choice is Mitt or Barack I’ll take Mitt any day.

One issue that does concern me is the control that the LDS church asserts over its membership. In order to be able to enter the Temples and perform various rites you have to be a member in good standing as determined by your Bishop and the Church leadership. If you get out of line with them and don’t do as you’re told they can remove your “membership in good standing” and you’re cut off from the Temples and can be shunned and excommunicated. I don’t know how this applies to politicians in elective offices and since they come in all flavors from liberal and annoying like Harry Reed to very conservative and lots of places in the middle like Sen. Hatch they must not get to involved in the decisions of LDS members who are in Congress. They have a much higher level of discipline of the membership than does any mainline church. I can’t imagine an LDS member of Congress taking and advocating a position in opposition to fundamental beliefs of their church and remaining a member in Good Standing like say the Catholic Church does with Nancy Pelosi and her abortion advocacy, fundraising and voting record. A Mormon politician doing that would find his Good Standing Card pulled pretty darn quickly for publicly dissing the church.

[airedale]

They consider themselves Christian, but I don’t know of a single mainline Christian faith that agrees with them. What you’ll find if you go to the various faiths websites looking for the reasons they don’t you’ll find something to the effect that because the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints reject most of the central Christian doctrines that all Christian churches agree with they can’t be Christian. For example the LDS Church rejects the idea of the Trinity and there beliefs on the nature of God and Jesus are very different than other Christian faiths.. There are many other issues. The LDS Church (I’m not an LDS member) thinks that the other Christian faiths had Greek thought/legends overlaying the true faith and thus distorting and creating a need to restore the true faith. You can read a bit about it here: http://mormonbeliefs.org/mormon_beliefs/mormon-beliefs-the-great-apostasy-and-the-restoration and http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1988.htm/ensign%20october%201988.htm/whither%20the%20early%20church.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0 which lay out the points where they think the rest of the Christian faiths got it wrong. If you read those two articles (many other available but stay away from Wikipedia since it covers a lot of other issues dealing with other faiths) you’ll see where the issues lay and why the Christian Churches from the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics all Protestant denominations don’t consider them Christian, because of their rejection of central Christian doctrines. Pretty much all Christian faiths accept the Nicene Creed as essential beliefs of Christianity.

The LDS Church feels there is the true faith called to reform all the rest of us. That’s why they believe they are Christian. Our differences are theological and hit the core of each others beliefs and I don’t see any way that the two sides can ever come to an agreement and have the rest of Christianity accept them as members of the Christian faith community.

Does that make them bad or evil people of course not. Does it mean they are ineligible to be President of the United States, No. The Mormons that I know are great people with conservative family and financial values that do a lot of charitable works. Their moral beliefs aren’t any different than the more conservative Christian faiths and far more in line with the Conservatives than are say the Methodists or Episcopal or the Lutheran leadership (members in those denominations tend to be more conservative than their leadership). I have no problem in voting for a member of the LDS Church for any office because they are a member of that church. I would have a problem in voting for one if he had a record like Harry Reed. My problem with Mitt Romney is not that he’s a Mormon rather that he’s a progressive Republican. If my choice is Mitt or Barack I’ll take Mitt any day.

One issue that does concern me is the control that the LDS church asserts over its membership. In order to be able to enter the Temples and perform various rites you have to be a member in good standing as determined by your Bishop and the Church leadership. If you get out of line with them and don’t do as you’re told they can remove your “membership in good standing” and you’re cut off from the Temples and can be shunned and excommunicated. I don’t know how this applies to politicians in elective offices and since they come in all flavors from liberal and annoying like Harry Reed to very conservative and lots of places in the middle like Sen. Hatch they must not get to involved in the decisions of LDS members who are in Congress. They have a much higher level of discipline of the membership than does any mainline church. I can’t imagine an LDS member of Congress taking and advocating a position in opposition to fundamental beliefs of their church and remaining a member in Good Standing like say the Catholic Church does with Nancy Pelosi and her abortion advocacy, fundraising and voting record. A Mormon politician doing that would find his Good Standing Card pulled pretty darn quickly for publicly dissing the church.

[airedale]

They consider themselves Christian, but I don’t know of a single mainline Christian faith that agrees with them. What you’ll find if you go to the various faiths websites looking for the reasons they don’t you’ll find something to the effect that because the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints reject most of the central Christian doctrines that all Christian churches agree with they can’t be Christian. For example the LDS Church rejects the idea of the Trinity and there beliefs on the nature of God and Jesus are very different than other Christian faiths.. There are many other issues. The LDS Church (I’m not an LDS member) thinks that the other Christian faiths had Greek thought/legends overlaying the true faith and thus distorting and creating a need to restore the true faith. You can read a bit about it here: http://mormonbeliefs.org/mormon_beliefs/mormon-beliefs-the-great-apostasy-and-the-restoration and http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1988.htm/ensign%20october%201988.htm/whither%20the%20early%20church.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0 which lay out the points where they think the rest of the Christian faiths got it wrong. If you read those two articles (many other available but stay away from Wikipedia since it covers a lot of other issues dealing with other faiths) you’ll see where the issues lay and why the Christian Churches from the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics all Protestant denominations don’t consider them Christian, because of their rejection of central Christian doctrines. Pretty much all Christian faiths accept the Nicene Creed as essential beliefs of Christianity.

The LDS Church feels there is the true faith called to reform all the rest of us. That’s why they believe they are Christian. Our differences are theological and hit the core of each others beliefs and I don’t see any way that the two sides can ever come to an agreement and have the rest of Christianity accept them as members of the Christian faith community.

Does that make them bad or evil people of course not. Does it mean they are ineligible to be President of the United States, No. The Mormons that I know are great people with conservative family and financial values that do a lot of charitable works. Their moral beliefs aren’t any different than the more conservative Christian faiths and far more in line with the Conservatives than are say the Methodists or Episcopal or the Lutheran leadership (members in those denominations tend to be more conservative than their leadership). I have no problem in voting for a member of the LDS Church for any office because they are a member of that church. I would have a problem in voting for one if he had a record like Harry Reed. My problem with Mitt Romney is not that he’s a Mormon rather that he’s a progressive Republican. If my choice is Mitt or Barack I’ll take Mitt any day.

One issue that does concern me is the control that the LDS church asserts over its membership. In order to be able to enter the Temples and perform various rites you have to be a member in good standing as determined by your Bishop and the Church leadership. If you get out of line with them and don’t do as you’re told they can remove your “membership in good standing” and you’re cut off from the Temples and can be shunned and excommunicated. I don’t know how this applies to politicians in elective offices and since they come in all flavors from liberal and annoying like Harry Reed to very conservative and lots of places in the middle like Sen. Hatch they must not get to involved in the decisions of LDS members who are in Congress. They have a much higher level of discipline of the membership than does any mainline church. I can’t imagine an LDS member of Congress taking and advocating a position in opposition to fundamental beliefs of their church and remaining a member in Good Standing like say the Catholic Church does with Nancy Pelosi and her abortion advocacy, fundraising and voting record. A Mormon politician doing that would find his Good Standing Card pulled pretty darn quickly for publicly dissing the church.

[imardmd1]

VANITY: Is Mormonism Christian or is it not?

... I'm also particularly interested in the opinion of the Lutheran, Catholic, and Charismatic members of FR.

More important than a sectarian 'ping' is an answer from The Word of God, incorporating a greater precision than available in most versions. From that, my position is as follows:

The passage answering this, taken in context, is from 2 Cor. 11:4, and the key is that two Greek words are both translated as "another" by the KJV, the Douay-Rheims, and (in Latin) the Vulgate. But both Textus Receptus and the critical text give two words (transliterated) -- "allos" and "heteros". Here's the comparison:

"allos" is more precisely "an other-one of the same kind"

"heteros" is more precisely "an other-one of a different kind"

So a translation of the Greek would give a better sense as if to a 1st century Corinthian who read this passage from Paul's original epistle, about a tolerance of an unacceptable professor and doctrine:

"For if he that cometh (continuously) preacheth an other-Jesus (of the same kind), whom we have not preached (to you), or if you-all (are in the process of) receive(ing) an other-spirit (of a different kind), which you-all have not (up to now) received, or an other-gospel (of a different kind), to which you-all was unacceptable, you-all might (very) well put up with (or tolerate) him/it.

Other posts to this thread have correctly shown that the Jesus depicted by Mormons is not even another Jesus of the same kind -- is not a Biblical Jesus -- their creature they call Jesus is another Jesus of a different kind.

Furthermore, their spirit is not The Comforter/Advocate of the same kind (allon paraklayton) as the true Biblical Jesus (spoken of by The Christ as in John 14:16), and cannot be.

Additionally, the Gospel they proclaim is not the Gospel which Paul calls "my Gospel," because it is the one taught him directly by The Christ when Paul was secluded in the Arabian desert. (Note: Jesus Christ discipled Paul for about three years similarly as He schooled the other disciples in the fine points of His doctrine. Neither Paul's gospel nor his doctrine was different than that of the other disciples. What placed him on the same tier and footing as a unique, Christ-selected primary eyewitness apostle was that he did not learn it second-hand from the other apostles -- he learned it directly from The Christ as did they. Importantly though, the other Apostles knew him, checked him out, approved him, and even allowed themselves on occasion to be upbraided by him. But his doctrine is the same doctrine preached by John, Peter, Levi, and was taught to the second generation of disciples. Joseph Smith could not, would not, nor could he ever be considered to have these qualifications for an apostle or prophet, regardless of his self-claimed "revelation." The giving of The God's entire, complete, perfect special revelation of His Plan of Redemption, and Coming of The Messiah and His Kingdom of Righteousness and Peace, was through the writing of eyewitness Apostles and their amanuenses by inspiration of the Holy Ghost. The outpouring was concluded at the death of Apostle John The Theologian. No exceptions. No Mohammed. No Allah. No Koran. No Joseph Smith. No goggles. No Book of Mormon. The Old Covenant/Will is finished and dead. No more blood sacrifices. The New Covenant/Will is still in effect. There is only one Name given among humans by which one must be saved -- Jesus, the Yeshua of the Bible.)

Paul's Gospel is one that is of a priceless salvation through total fealty to The Christ, the Lord of us, and His Faith and His faithfulness alone, totally apart from and not confused or earned with any human works, and purchased with the Untarnishable Currency of His Ever-Living, Everlasting Blood, by a Sacrifice once done at the Cross, presented to The Father at the Mercy Seat in The Heaven, accepted, and never to be repeated -- only memorialized forever.

This is not the gospel of the followers of Joseph Smith -- their gospel is another one of a different kind.

So, the fear of Paul was not that truly regenerated disciple-believers would fall away from The Faith themselves through being deceived. It was that they would lend credence to the phony christs, lying spirits, unsavory gospels, and twisted doctrines of false prophets by permitting them to be tolerated and associated with them. No, such men were to be ushered out and kept at a country mile from an established locally assembled Candlestick of Christ.

Mormons, JWs, Unitarians, and others like them have another christ of a different kind, are easily discernible, and may -- yea, must -- be kept totally separate. Paul was not worried about these. What did cause him concern was those who have another Christ of the same kind; but whose gospel is an earn-your-way-to-heaven, second-chance-after-death, supererogatory, seeking-after-God, "works"-necessary-salvation gospel. Those were to be purged, put out of association, and separated from. The spirit of this gospel is not very comforting if it is possible that The God's gift can be lost.(Here read 2 Cor. 6:14-7:1)

The God and Father of Our Lord Jesus Christ desires pure worshippers, to worship Him in The Spirit and in The Truth, holding to The Faith. Not everyone who names His Name is necessarily of His Own. Be careful in selecting with whom you associate, as affecting His reputation among the lost humans.

Finally, we are each to be in the process of examining our own selves, scrutinizing to see if we are continually representative of The Faith, the whole Faith, and nothing but The Faith (2 Cor. 13:5,6). Never come to the Remembrance Table with unconfessed and/or unabandoned sin in view.

Does this begin to answer your question? Are you of the Company of the Committed? Will you act upon it?

God has caught Mormans and JWs and placed them outside my door. I have gone out and taught them, and they have my addressed marked off -- they do not come by any more.

[Cronos]

At this stage of the election I don't care.

we have a lot of conservative Mormons. Whatever be their faith, that's separate from their politics.

For me #1 is getting Obama out.

I dislike Romney as a RINO, his religion doesn't even come to play compared to his waffling.

Our religious discussion should be put at rest until after Obama is kicked out.

[CodeToad]

Might as well claim Islam is Christian.

[NCSEADOG]

I support the right of people to be free to worship as they please. Freedom of Religion is precious and worthy of fierce defense.

To help you in your research as to whether Mormons are Christian I would recommend you do some research at http://carm.org/mormonism

[sickoflibs]

Do you two gals have any opinions on this subject?

[Elsie]

Of course those of the Mormon faith are welcome to voice their position on this thread,

Would you like to see some QUOTES from MORMONs on this matter???

---

---

Questions put to Joseph Smith: "'Do you believe the Bible?' [Smith:]'If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do'. When asked 'Will everybody be damned, but Mormons'? [Smith replied] 'Yes, and a great portion of them, unless they repent, and work righteousness." (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 119).

Joseph Smith: "for the teachers of religion of the different sects understood the same passages of scripture so differently as to destroy all confidence in settling the question by an appeal to the Bible" (from Pearl of Great Price 1:12). "What is it that inspires professors of Christianity generally with a hope of salvation? It is that smooth, sophisticated influence of the devil, by which he deceives the whole world" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p.270).

 

 

 

Brigham Young stated this repeatedly: "When the light came to me I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73); "The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to the knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171); "With a regard to true theology, a more ignorant people never lived than the present so-called Christian world" (Journal of Discourses 8:199); "And who is there that acknowledges [God's] hand? ...You may wander east, west, north, and south, and you cannot find it in any church or government on the earth, except the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.24); "Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt proclaimed: "Both Catholics and Protestants are nothing less than the 'whore of Babylon' whom the Lord denounces by the mouth of John the Revelator as having corrupted all the earth by their fornications and wickedness. Any person who shall be so corrupt as to receive a holy ordinance of the Gospel from the ministers of any of these apostate churches will be sent down to hell with them, unless they repent" (The Seer, p. 255).

 

 

 

Orson Pratt also said: "This great apostasy commenced about the close of the first century of the Christian era, and it has been waxing worse and worse from then until now" (Journal of Discourses

, vol.18, p.44) and: "But as there has been no Christian Church on the earth for a great many centuries past, until the present century, the people have lost sight of the pattern that God has given according to which the Christian Church should be established, and they have denominated a great variety of people Christian Churches, because they profess to be ...But there has been a long apostasy, during which the nations have been cursed with apostate churches in great abundance" (Journal of Discourses , 18:172).

 

 

President John Taylor stated: "Christianity...is a perfect pack of nonsense...the devil could not invent a better engine to spread his work than the Christianity of the nineteenth century." (Journal of Discourses , vol. 6, p.167); "Where shall we look for the true order or authority of God? It cannot be found in any nation of Christendom." (Journal of Discourses , 10:127).

 

 

 

James Talmage said: "A self-suggesting interpretation of history indicates that there has been a great departure from the way of salvation as laid down by the Savior, a universal apostasy from the Church of Christ". (A Study of the Articles of Faith, p.182).

 

 

 

President Joseph Fielding Smith said: "Doctrines were corrupted, authority lost, and a false order of religion took the place of the gospel of Jesus Christ, just as it had been the case in former dispensations, and the people were left in spiritual darkness." (Doctrines of Salvation, p.266). "For hundreds of years the world was wrapped in a veil of spiritual darkness, until there was not one fundamental truth belonging to the place of salvation ...Joseph Smith declared that in the year 1820 the Lord revealed to him that all the 'Christian' churches were in error, teaching for commandments the doctrines of men" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol. 3, p.282).

 

 

 

More recent statements by apostle Bruce McConkie are also very clear: "Apostasy was universal...And this darkness still prevails except among those who have come to a knowledge of the restored gospel" (Doctrines of Salvation, vol 3, p.265); "Thus the signs of the times include the prevailing apostate darkness in the sects of Christendom and in the religious world in general" (The Millennial Messiah, p.403); "a perverted Christianity holds sway among the so-called Christians of apostate Christendom" (Mormon Doctrine, p.132); "virtually all the millions of apostate Christendom have abased themselves before the mythical throne of a mythical Christ whom they vainly suppose to be a spirit essence who is incorporeal uncreated, immaterial and three-in-one with the Father and Holy Spirit" (Mormon Doctrine, p.269); "Gnosticism is one of the great pagan philosophies which antedated Christ and the Christian Era and which was later commingled with pure Christianity to form the apostate religion that has prevailed in the world since the early days of that era." (Mormon Doctrine, p.316).

 

 

 

President George Q. Cannon said: "After the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints was organized, there were only two churches upon the earth. They were known respectively as the Church of the Lamb of God and Babylon. The various organizations which are called churches throughout Christendom, though differing in their creeds and organizations, have one common origin. They all belong to Babylon" (Gospel Truth, p.324).

 

 

President Wilford Woodruff stated: "the Gospel of modern Christendom shuts up the Lord, and stops all communication with Him. I want nothing to do with such a Gospel, I would rather prefer the Gospel of the dark ages, so called" (Journal of Discourses , vol. 2, p.196).

[LomanBill]

"...who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world, and through all time;

 

...

 

 that it is time enough for the rightful purposes of civil government, for its officers to interfere when principles break out into overt acts against peace and good order; and finally, that truth is great and will prevail if left to herself, that she is the proper and sufficient antagonist to error, and has nothing to fear from the conflict, unless by human interposition disarmed of her natural weapons, free argument and debate, errors ceasing to be dangerous when it is permitted freely to contradict them. "

 

"I HAVE SWORN UPON THE ALTAR OF GOD ETERNAL HOSTILITY TO EVERY FORM OF TYRANNY OVER THE MIND OF MAN"

--The Virginia Act For Establishing Religious Freedom
--Thomas Jefferson, 1786

http://religiousfreedom.lib.virginia.edu/sacred/vaact.html

 

[NYer]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The Lord himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation” [John 3:5] (CCC 1257). Through baptism men and women are freed from sin, are reborn as children of God, and, configured to Christ by an indelible character, are incorporated into the Church (Can. 849). The Sacrament of Baptism makes you a Christian.

The validity of this sacrament depends on the following requirements:

1. The correct matter (water)
2. The correct form (baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)
3. The correct intention (to do what the Church does)

In July 2001, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith gave a negative response to the validity of Baptism conferred in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Father Luis Ladaria, S.J. says in summary:

“The Baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differ essentially, both for what concerns faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name Baptism is conferred, and for what concerns the relationship to Christ who instituted it. As a result of all this, it is understood that the Catholic Church has to consider invalid, that is to say, cannot consider true Baptism, the rite given that name by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints."

It is worth noting that the Catholic Church recognizes baptism from most christian churches but not from the Mormon Church.

[NYer]

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states: “The Lord himself affirms that baptism is necessary for salvation” [John 3:5] (CCC 1257). Through baptism men and women are freed from sin, are reborn as children of God, and, configured to Christ by an indelible character, are incorporated into the Church (Can. 849). The Sacrament of Baptism makes you a Christian.

The validity of this sacrament depends on the following requirements:

1. The correct matter (water)
2. The correct form (baptizing in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (Matthew 28:19)
3. The correct intention (to do what the Church does)

In July 2001, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith gave a negative response to the validity of Baptism conferred in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

Father Luis Ladaria, S.J. says in summary:

“The Baptism of the Catholic Church and that of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints differ essentially, both for what concerns faith in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, in whose name Baptism is conferred, and for what concerns the relationship to Christ who instituted it. As a result of all this, it is understood that the Catholic Church has to consider invalid, that is to say, cannot consider true Baptism, the rite given that name by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints."

It is worth noting that the Catholic Church recognizes baptism from most christian churches but not from the Mormon Church.

[OKSooner]

I'd like to thank everyone who has constructively contributed to this thread and also I'd like to clarify something:

I am not a Mormon, nor am I a "Romneybot".

I am New Testament Christian who believes and tries to live by the Nicene Creed.

I have been supporting Newt in the Republican primary but with Rick's recent surge I am giving him a second look. I will vote for one of these two in "my state's" primary on March 6th.

There is at least one insane person on this thread who seems to have convinced herself otherwise, along with apparently some sort of other delusion of a more personal nature, which have both been posted publicly on this thread. I hope there's only one individual suffering this way and no more.

Thanks again to the overwhelming (sane) majority who have offered constructive comments.

[Jeff Head]

I wrote the following witness of Christ some time ago in answer to a similar question posed in a thread here on FR when Perry was still running as a candidate.

MY WITNESS FOR CHRIST

I post it to you here in answer to your question, and I do so as an LDS myself at the risk of the potential ridicule, attacks, name-calling (ie. liar, deciever, etc.), etc. that it may well generate from those intent on marginalizing and demonizing anything that has to do with the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints to which I belong

So be it. I thought you should hear a witness from an LDS member directly.

It is an accurate description of what we, active LDS members believe, as opposed to what others tell us that we believe.

I hope you find it of interest from that perspective.

[AnTiw1]

[Marguerite]

Easy to reply to that:

Christian religion is monotheistic - one God.

Mormonism is polytheistic - a multitude of gods.

Ergo, Mormonism cannot be Christian.