Posted on 02/10/2012 12:14:55 PM PST by OKSooner
Is it a fair question to ask... Is Mormonism Christian or is it not?
If you care enough to respond and tell me it's not a fair question, please explain why not.
The writer says that Smith and Mormonism understood as concrete and material things that other Christians considered metaphorical or metaphysical. So God's body had to be physical and material. Heaven had to be a place with a spacial location or locations in our universe. "Holy garments" had to have an actual material equivalent. Religious community, authority, and responsibilities had to be more concretely described and instituted than they were in most other denominations.
I don't know how accurate he is, but it does explain many of the features of Mormonism that strike others as "strange" or "weird." Of course, 19th century Christians did tend to understand the Bible in a more literal sense than later Christians did.
In fact Mormons reject these three creeds. Basically any historical Christian creeds for that matter.
The thread question, “Is Mormonism Christian...?”
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Exactly...
Its not...
Mormonism is equal to Islam in being unChristian...
All the little sidetracks, smokescreens, tarbabies, and men-behind-the-curtains wont change the fact the
Mormonism is NOT Christianity...
Just for you I’ll post the following...
No Triune Baptism, no biscuit.
Mormonism is NOT Christianity
The foul practice of polygamy is not part of Christianity..
Idol worship of the pagan Joey Smith is not part of Christianity...
Multiple gods are not part of Christianity...
A non-virgin Mary is not part of Christianity...
Only males going to Heaven is not part of Christianity...
Males becoming gods is not part of Christianity...
Males ruling their own planet is not part of Christianity...
A priesthood system as practiced by the mormons is not part of Christianity
Women as sex slaves in a harem is not part of Christianity...
Women having babies forever is not part of Christianity...
Women being called from their graves by husbands who decide the woman’s fate is not part of Christianity...
Degradation of women through adultery and so called “celestial marriage” is not part of Christianity...
Three levels of Heaven is not part of Christianity
Sex in Heaven is not part of Christianity…
Men marrying their mother-in-law is not part of Christianity…
Men marrying their daughter-in-law is not part of Christianity..
Men marrying their wife’s sister is not part of Christianity
Special underwear are not part of Christianity..
Special ceremony clothes are not part of Christianity…
Joey Smith deciding who gets into Heaven is not part of Christianity...
Joey Smith as the savior is not part of Christianity...
Recognizing and worshipping the blasphemous Joey Smith is not part of Christianty...
Dead dunking is not part of Christianity...
The idol on top of the mormon temples is not part of Christianity...
The mormon temples are not part of Christianity...
Gathering in “zion” whether its in Missouri or Utah is not part of Christianity...
The return of the mormon jesus to Missouri is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the garden of Eden was in Missouri is not part of Christianity...
People living on the sun and the moon is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon jesus visited Central America is not part of Christianity...
Freemasonry as practiced by the mormons is not part of Christianity...
Endowments are not part of Christianity...
The book of mormon is not part of Christianity
The tall tales of Joey Smith are not part of Christianity
Mythical ancient civilizations in Central America are not part of Christianity
The so called “visions” and false prophecies of Joey Smith are not part of Christianity
The mormon Mary having sex with one of the mormon gods is not part of Christianity...
The absence of a cross on a building is not part of Christianity
Pagan and Freemasonry symbols on a building are not part of Christianity
“Going through the temple” is not part of Christianity...
The denial that Jesus is God is not part of Christianity...
The denial that the Holy Ghost is God is not part of Christianity...
The denial of the Trinity is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon god was once a man is not part of Christianity
The belief that the mormon god was a polygamist is not part of Christianity...
The belief that the mormon jesus was a polygamist is not part of Christianity...
The belief that monogamy...one man, one woman...is prostitution is not part of Christianity...
The belief that David went to Hell forever is not part of Christianity.
The belief that David will not be in Heaven is not part of Christianity….
Paying tithes to be saved is not part of Christianity......
Works to be saved is not part of Christianity
Being a member of the mormon corporation is not part of Christianity...
The mormon jesus sweating in the Garden of Gethsemane for “atonement” is not part of Christianity...
The insulting, degrading, blasphemous false religion of mormonism is not Christianity...
I have never stopped Mormons from practicing their own religion..
They are free to do so...
I do however state once again for the record...
Mormonism is NOT Christianity...
FTR this is Deuteronomy 4:2:
Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the L-RD your G-d that I give you. (NIV)But then I have no dog in this fight.
ML/NJ
Jesus said “I have sheep not of this fold.” He also tells us that the law of God is written on our hearts, and we are all therefore accountable. Therefore couldn't it be assumed that those who have never had the opportunity to hear the gospels, but who have sought to keep His laws to the best of their ability, and tried to live Godly lives, will be judged by God as acceptable to Him, and also saved by Calvary -- acceptable not by their righteousness, but by the state of their Godly hearts, because none of us can can save ourselves by works. So Christ can save them too, because He has paid the price of their salvation. His sheep of those folds, had they had the opportunity to hear the gospels would have believed. The state of their hearts and the course of their lives prove it. Because true belief, means a changed and Godly life! (Although alas still prone to stumbling, unredeemed but saved men and women still have a sin nature, which is why we must be saved by grace.)
Remember too that God would not bring Sodom and Gomorrah to judgment until Lot, who was a righteous man had left. Remember also how Abraham argued with God, to try save these cities? These men and women of Sodom and Gomorrah had not heard the gospels, yet had they been following God's laws written in their hearts, they would not have been destroyed. Remember how God called David, who was sometimes a disgraceful sinner, a "man after His own heart" because his heart was right with God even though he sinned? David had not heard the gospels, they weren't written yet, but he had the promise of salvation and he was saved, and it is through the line of David that Christ was born.
Remember also the Bible teaches the “Whole of Israel” shall be saved, and also that the Jews are “partially blinded for our sakes.” So how can you reconcile these two statements if all who have never had the opportunity to hear the gospels (or in the Jews’ case partially blinded by God) are doomed? Remember also, starting with Abel, the animal sacrifices looked forward to the cross, and acted as substitute to save the repentant sinner?
But, if you hear the gospel and reject it (as Joseph Smith did) you will most surely not be saved, in fact you will be burn in Hell! And those who have heard the gospel and accept it are blessed, those who reject are doomed.
Your question is asking about the doctrine, not mormons in general, which, in reading the responses indicates many can’t tell the difference.
I suppose I shouldn’t answer, being an ex-mormon, I’ve already seen attempts to marginalize any response I may give. I’m bound to be considered; “without authority to speak on the matter”, a “moonbat”, a “mormon hater”, etc. but I will anyway.
In a nutshell, the doctrines and teachings of mormonism that deal with salvation are in direct conflict with Christianity. The nature of Christ is in direct conflict with established Christian teachings.
The lack of any evidences of the civilizations described in the BoM provide additional proof that the BoM is a fraud. The false prophecies of not only JS, but others proves they were false prophets as warned of in the Bible.
There is much more, but the entire construct of mormonism is built upon a faulty premise that God and Christ not only got it wrong numerous times in the Bible, but that they were also liars.
The Bible says that the next time Jesus shows up we’ll all know about it. He won’t sneak into the woods to see one man.
I guess the question is; Who lied, God or JS?
The mormons themselves, are for the most part, good and decent people. They’ve just elected to suspend belief and follow a religion that depends on marginalizing God and Christ as nothing more than exalted men and errant at that.
Indeed, Jews may contradict Christianity, but biblical Judaism does not, it cannot! All of scripture is the inspired word of God.
It is possible to be a Christian based only on the teachings of the old testament — everything Christianity teaches is found within the old testament: “The new within the old concealed. The old within the new revealed.” Throughout the new testament, constant reference is made to the old, and points out where Christ fulfills the law, fulfills prophecy, nothing taught by Christ contradicts the Holy Scriptures of the Jews.
Mormonism, on the other hand, utterly contradicts biblical Judaism and Christianity.
Agreed. I don't recall ever seeing Billy Graham during one of his crusades placing any conditions on his alter calls aside from having heard the Gospel message, the person accepts Christ as Lord and Saviour. Therefore, as far as Billy Graham is concerned, the person has been saved. That they may go on to live an imperfect Christian life is a separate matter but who has lived a perfect Christian life or found a perfect Christian denomination?
If upon hearing the Gospel Message from a Mormon missionary a person accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, the person is a Christian. Mormon doctrine is a separate matter.
I don’t recall seeing any such claims by Romney. In fact, I don’t remember seeing him making any statements at all about religion.
"I baptize you in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit".
Clearly Jesus spoke in the Gospels about the FATHER, and that He is the Son of the Father.
In terms of the Holy Spirit, John [the Baptist] talks about baptism with the Holy Spirit in Matthew 3:11.
In the Acts of the Apostles, the Holy Spirit descended on the Apostles and endowed them with great gifts [see Acts 2:1-16 and possibly the rest of Acts chapter 2].
The Trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The second Christian Creed [not the Apostles Creed, but the Nicene Creed] described the beliefs in Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as one God in three Persons...
Mormons do not use a Baptism based on the three persons of God -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
That's what the NT teaches. Man is sinful and deserving of eternal damnation. Jesus's sacrifice was a gift to the few who would accept it. That's the only way to escape hell. It's right there in your Bible:
Revelation 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
But, if you hear the gospel and reject it (as Joseph Smith did) you will most surely not be saved, in fact you will be burn in Hell!
Matt. 19 20The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?
21Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.
22But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
23Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
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Out of curiosity, how did you go about selling your worldly possessions and giving it all to the poor? Did you auction it off? Did you have to consult an attorney to help with the paper work? How much in taxes did you pay when you cashed in your IRAs and 401Ks? What do you find to be the most difficult thing about being poor?
They consider themselves Christian, but I don’t know of a single mainline Christian faith that agrees with them. What you’ll find if you go to the various faiths websites looking for the reasons they don’t you’ll find something to the effect that because the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints reject most of the central Christian doctrines that all Christian churches agree with they can’t be Christian. For example the LDS Church rejects the idea of the Trinity and there beliefs on the nature of God and Jesus are very different than other Christian faiths.. There are many other issues. The LDS Church (I’m not an LDS member) thinks that the other Christian faiths had Greek thought/legends overlaying the true faith and thus distorting and creating a need to restore the true faith. You can read a bit about it here: http://mormonbeliefs.org/mormon_beliefs/mormon-beliefs-the-great-apostasy-and-the-restoration and http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1988.htm/ensign%20october%201988.htm/whither%20the%20early%20church.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0 which lay out the points where they think the rest of the Christian faiths got it wrong. If you read those two articles (many other available but stay away from Wikipedia since it covers a lot of other issues dealing with other faiths) you’ll see where the issues lay and why the Christian Churches from the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics all Protestant denominations don’t consider them Christian, because of their rejection of central Christian doctrines. Pretty much all Christian faiths accept the Nicene Creed as essential beliefs of Christianity.
The LDS Church feels there is the true faith called to reform all the rest of us. That’s why they believe they are Christian. Our differences are theological and hit the core of each others beliefs and I don’t see any way that the two sides can ever come to an agreement and have the rest of Christianity accept them as members of the Christian faith community.
Does that make them bad or evil people of course not. Does it mean they are ineligible to be President of the United States, No. The Mormons that I know are great people with conservative family and financial values that do a lot of charitable works. Their moral beliefs aren’t any different than the more conservative Christian faiths and far more in line with the Conservatives than are say the Methodists or Episcopal or the Lutheran leadership (members in those denominations tend to be more conservative than their leadership). I have no problem in voting for a member of the LDS Church for any office because they are a member of that church. I would have a problem in voting for one if he had a record like Harry Reed. My problem with Mitt Romney is not that he’s a Mormon rather that he’s a progressive Republican. If my choice is Mitt or Barack I’ll take Mitt any day.
One issue that does concern me is the control that the LDS church asserts over its membership. In order to be able to enter the Temples and perform various rites you have to be a member in good standing as determined by your Bishop and the Church leadership. If you get out of line with them and don’t do as you’re told they can remove your “membership in good standing” and you’re cut off from the Temples and can be shunned and excommunicated. I don’t know how this applies to politicians in elective offices and since they come in all flavors from liberal and annoying like Harry Reed to very conservative and lots of places in the middle like Sen. Hatch they must not get to involved in the decisions of LDS members who are in Congress. They have a much higher level of discipline of the membership than does any mainline church. I can’t imagine an LDS member of Congress taking and advocating a position in opposition to fundamental beliefs of their church and remaining a member in Good Standing like say the Catholic Church does with Nancy Pelosi and her abortion advocacy, fundraising and voting record. A Mormon politician doing that would find his Good Standing Card pulled pretty darn quickly for publicly dissing the church.
If upon hearing the Gospel Message from a Mormon missionary a person accepts Christ as their Lord and Savior, the person is a Christian. Mormon doctrine is a separate matter.
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Now that would be interesting to hear that...
Why dont you tell us what is contained in that “gospel message” as a Mormon missionary tells it...
Maybe a former mormon missionary will tell us if you dont know...
BTW I think Mormon doctrine IS the matter...
They consider themselves Christian, but I don’t know of a single mainline Christian faith that agrees with them. What you’ll find if you go to the various faiths websites looking for the reasons they don’t you’ll find something to the effect that because the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints reject most of the central Christian doctrines that all Christian churches agree with they can’t be Christian. For example the LDS Church rejects the idea of the Trinity and there beliefs on the nature of God and Jesus are very different than other Christian faiths.. There are many other issues. The LDS Church (I’m not an LDS member) thinks that the other Christian faiths had Greek thought/legends overlaying the true faith and thus distorting and creating a need to restore the true faith. You can read a bit about it here: http://mormonbeliefs.org/mormon_beliefs/mormon-beliefs-the-great-apostasy-and-the-restoration and http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1988.htm/ensign%20october%201988.htm/whither%20the%20early%20church.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0 which lay out the points where they think the rest of the Christian faiths got it wrong. If you read those two articles (many other available but stay away from Wikipedia since it covers a lot of other issues dealing with other faiths) you’ll see where the issues lay and why the Christian Churches from the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics all Protestant denominations don’t consider them Christian, because of their rejection of central Christian doctrines. Pretty much all Christian faiths accept the Nicene Creed as essential beliefs of Christianity.
The LDS Church feels there is the true faith called to reform all the rest of us. That’s why they believe they are Christian. Our differences are theological and hit the core of each others beliefs and I don’t see any way that the two sides can ever come to an agreement and have the rest of Christianity accept them as members of the Christian faith community.
Does that make them bad or evil people of course not. Does it mean they are ineligible to be President of the United States, No. The Mormons that I know are great people with conservative family and financial values that do a lot of charitable works. Their moral beliefs aren’t any different than the more conservative Christian faiths and far more in line with the Conservatives than are say the Methodists or Episcopal or the Lutheran leadership (members in those denominations tend to be more conservative than their leadership). I have no problem in voting for a member of the LDS Church for any office because they are a member of that church. I would have a problem in voting for one if he had a record like Harry Reed. My problem with Mitt Romney is not that he’s a Mormon rather that he’s a progressive Republican. If my choice is Mitt or Barack I’ll take Mitt any day.
One issue that does concern me is the control that the LDS church asserts over its membership. In order to be able to enter the Temples and perform various rites you have to be a member in good standing as determined by your Bishop and the Church leadership. If you get out of line with them and don’t do as you’re told they can remove your “membership in good standing” and you’re cut off from the Temples and can be shunned and excommunicated. I don’t know how this applies to politicians in elective offices and since they come in all flavors from liberal and annoying like Harry Reed to very conservative and lots of places in the middle like Sen. Hatch they must not get to involved in the decisions of LDS members who are in Congress. They have a much higher level of discipline of the membership than does any mainline church. I can’t imagine an LDS member of Congress taking and advocating a position in opposition to fundamental beliefs of their church and remaining a member in Good Standing like say the Catholic Church does with Nancy Pelosi and her abortion advocacy, fundraising and voting record. A Mormon politician doing that would find his Good Standing Card pulled pretty darn quickly for publicly dissing the church.
They consider themselves Christian, but I don’t know of a single mainline Christian faith that agrees with them. What you’ll find if you go to the various faiths websites looking for the reasons they don’t you’ll find something to the effect that because the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints reject most of the central Christian doctrines that all Christian churches agree with they can’t be Christian. For example the LDS Church rejects the idea of the Trinity and there beliefs on the nature of God and Jesus are very different than other Christian faiths.. There are many other issues. The LDS Church (I’m not an LDS member) thinks that the other Christian faiths had Greek thought/legends overlaying the true faith and thus distorting and creating a need to restore the true faith. You can read a bit about it here: http://mormonbeliefs.org/mormon_beliefs/mormon-beliefs-the-great-apostasy-and-the-restoration and http://library.lds.org/nxt/gateway.dll/Magazines/Ensign/1988.htm/ensign%20october%201988.htm/whither%20the%20early%20church.htm?fn=document-frame.htm&f=templates&2.0 which lay out the points where they think the rest of the Christian faiths got it wrong. If you read those two articles (many other available but stay away from Wikipedia since it covers a lot of other issues dealing with other faiths) you’ll see where the issues lay and why the Christian Churches from the Eastern Orthodox and Catholics all Protestant denominations don’t consider them Christian, because of their rejection of central Christian doctrines. Pretty much all Christian faiths accept the Nicene Creed as essential beliefs of Christianity.
The LDS Church feels there is the true faith called to reform all the rest of us. That’s why they believe they are Christian. Our differences are theological and hit the core of each others beliefs and I don’t see any way that the two sides can ever come to an agreement and have the rest of Christianity accept them as members of the Christian faith community.
Does that make them bad or evil people of course not. Does it mean they are ineligible to be President of the United States, No. The Mormons that I know are great people with conservative family and financial values that do a lot of charitable works. Their moral beliefs aren’t any different than the more conservative Christian faiths and far more in line with the Conservatives than are say the Methodists or Episcopal or the Lutheran leadership (members in those denominations tend to be more conservative than their leadership). I have no problem in voting for a member of the LDS Church for any office because they are a member of that church. I would have a problem in voting for one if he had a record like Harry Reed. My problem with Mitt Romney is not that he’s a Mormon rather that he’s a progressive Republican. If my choice is Mitt or Barack I’ll take Mitt any day.
One issue that does concern me is the control that the LDS church asserts over its membership. In order to be able to enter the Temples and perform various rites you have to be a member in good standing as determined by your Bishop and the Church leadership. If you get out of line with them and don’t do as you’re told they can remove your “membership in good standing” and you’re cut off from the Temples and can be shunned and excommunicated. I don’t know how this applies to politicians in elective offices and since they come in all flavors from liberal and annoying like Harry Reed to very conservative and lots of places in the middle like Sen. Hatch they must not get to involved in the decisions of LDS members who are in Congress. They have a much higher level of discipline of the membership than does any mainline church. I can’t imagine an LDS member of Congress taking and advocating a position in opposition to fundamental beliefs of their church and remaining a member in Good Standing like say the Catholic Church does with Nancy Pelosi and her abortion advocacy, fundraising and voting record. A Mormon politician doing that would find his Good Standing Card pulled pretty darn quickly for publicly dissing the church.
Since you believe doctrine is the matter, you presumably believe that as doctrine pertains to Catholics and Protestants, one is Christian and the other is not.
Normie you can call yourself what ever you like..
Your savior and judge Joey Smith wanted to call himself a Moslem...
But just calling yourself a Christian doesnt make you a Christian...
Did you hear the liberal Willard Mitt Romney call himself a conservative today at CPAC ???
Well hes not a conservative...
Joey Smith didnt have the way to God...
He didnt have the Truth about God...
He didnt know how to have life eternal...
Lets see what the LORD Jesus Christ who is God says about all this...
The LORD Jesus Christ says to Normie, “I AM the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man or woman comes to the Father except by Me.” ...John 14:6
Kid wheres the words that the Mormon missionaries say in their “gospel message” ???
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