'I created Obama's certification of birth'

www.wnd.com ^ | 08/09/2011 | Jerome R. Corsi

[rxsid]

When the White House posted online an image of President Obama's purported long-form birth certificate, it also linked to the previously circulated "Certification of Live Birth," the short-form version that had been presented as the only birth documentation available.

However, the short-form certificate to which the White House linked April 27 was a forgery, claims computer expert Ron Polland, Ph.D., who says he made the image himself.

[Kevmo]

You pointed me to a thread which was supposed to be the end-all proving your point, but instead it negates your point. You neglect to recall that I was on that original thread where Danae posted her nonsense, and she focused some of her invective towards me as well. So, yeah I don’t feel like reading through another CoLB thread to find out where the discussion ended up, because I was there when it started.

[MestaMachine]

Kevmo, I wouldn’t care if she thought it was a 2025 document. She could have said it was a 3009 document. IT DOESN’T MATTER! The FACT remains. It was NOT a forgery. It just wasn’t. And there was no way polarik could have claimed it was. BECAUSE IT WASN’T! But he SAID it was and used his *expertise* to PROVE it was. Now how in G-d’s name is that even possible?

[sometime lurker]

And you still have not addressed the fact that were Madison's offhand comment true, Slaves and Indians would have been citizens. They meet his criteria, but lo and behold they were not citizens! Your argument is rebuked by fact.

Are you deliberately being obtuse? Indians were considered members of "sovereign" Indian nations (classified as "domestic dependent nations") so their citizenship was with their Indian "nation," which is also why the Constitution excluded them from taxes. It's also why if you visit the Navajo reservation in the Southwest, you will see you are visiting the "Navajo Nation." Note that current US Title 8 gives citizenship to "Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe [emphasis added.]

Slaves, since they were property, did not have citizenship rights. (Do you know of any country where slaves were citizens with citizenship rights while still slaves?)

I again point out that by your logic, "“chosen every second Year by the People of the several States,” would be invalid since women could not vote and yet are of the people.

And I'm so glad you were physically present when James Madison gave his speech so you could attest that his "comment" was "offhand" instead of part of his prepared speech.

[DiogenesLamp]

Good point! How could I think James Madison understood the Constitution! /sarc

Idiot point. How could you think James Madison was arguing "Natural born citizen" for William Loughton Smith when Smith was born in 1758, and therefore was a British Subject at birth as were all the Founders old enough to be members of Congress in 1789?

Madison was arguing that Smith was naturalized at the same time as all the other citizens of South Carolina when the Declaration of Independence was written, and that Under the British laws then in effect (jus soli) He was legally a citizen of South Carolina prior to independence, and therefore was a Legal American citizen after independence, as were ALL citizens of South Carolina.

None of this proves that he is rebuking the standard used in Article II.

[sometime lurker]

Good try, but no. That part of the Naturalization act dealt with those born outside of the US. You have now decided that agreeing that McCain met conditions for “natural born” when born OUTSIDE the US, now means all those conditions apply to those born inside.

Again, if you are taking the resolution as binding on conditions for natural born, it now means that only those born on a military base qualify. Logical fallacies abound.

[DiogenesLamp]

Exactly, and it ties in with what the sperm donor (big barack) said, that his knocked up underage babymama was going to give the child up for adoption through the salvation army. There were two unwed mothers’ homes in Vancouver that were frequented by Seattle girls in trouble. One was run by the catholic church, which her liberal atheist family would not have chosen, and the other was run by the salvation army.

I did not know that. Do you have a link regarding the Salvation army home in Vancouver?

[DiogenesLamp]

Sheesh..is Polarik your life partner? You seem unusually defensive about a guy who is a genuine jerk.

We tolerate you. How bad could Polarik be?

[MestaMachine]

Kevmo, she SCANNED an original document. Don’t you understand? It was a genuine Hawaiian COLB. She had the receopts to prove it, which she ALSO scanned. It wasn’t a forgery. That is the whole point and nothing else that is even remotely connected to it is relevant. It was NOT a forgery as polarik claimed. And yet you all believed him. And Danae was angry. Put yourself in her place. She was doing nothing but trying to help him. Do you realize he PLANNED what he did to her? He PLANNED it and hyped his *army* through Freepmails to be ready to attack her unmercifully on HIS command. He effing KNEW he was lying through his teeth.
How could anyone with a conscience, or any sense of fairplay, be part of that? It’s sickening. It made me sick to my stomach. I get angry all over again every time I think of it. It’s twisted.
And you still defend him? What if it had been you?

[DiogenesLamp]

The Obots claim that the birthplace of the parent is irrelevant, as long as the parents are US citizens.

This is the ONLY point where I would like clarification.

The birthplace of the parents are completely irrelevant if they are or have become American citizens before the child is born. All of the founders were British citizens prior to July 4, 1776. Only Children born after July 4, 1776 were "natural born citizens."

[DiogenesLamp]

If you want to believe obvious frauds because they tell you ridiculous things you want to hear, that’s your business. Do try to steer clear of your wallet while you’re doing that, though.

You aren't getting near my wallet.

[sometime lurker]

How could you think James Madison was arguing "Natural born citizen" for William Loughton Smith when Smith was born in 1758, and therefore was a British Subject at birth as were all the Founders old enough to be members of Congress in 1789?

Strawman fallacy. Where did I say that Madison was arguing for "natural born citizen" for William Loughton Smith? I have pointed out that Madison argued that the main criterion for allegiance was place, not parents. If the primary criteria is jus soli: "place is the most certain criterion; it is what applies in the United States than that would apply to other situations than Mr. Smith. And now I have work to do, so no answers to any other fallacies you may present until this evening.

[tired_old_conservative]

“You aren’t getting near my wallet.”

Rest assured. I have no need at all need to get near your wallet.

[DiogenesLamp]

Glad I can give you a few chuckles! Old folks always seem nicer when they’re happy...

Children are always a joy to behold except when they act like brats. Then they need their little @sses whipped.

[Kevmo]

Kevmo, I wouldn’t care if she thought it was a 2025 document. She could have said it was a 3009 document. IT DOESN’T MATTER! The FACT remains.
***Of course it does. If you present a document claiming to be one of the handwritten copies of the Declaration of Independence that our founders used, but it contains information that was only available from 1850 onwards, then it is VERY LIKELY to be a forgery, and whatever else you find in that document is going to affect your perspective towards it.

So, since you’re in ALL CAPS already, then I should say THAT IT DOES MATTER.

I asked for a link to where Polarik was discredited, and it turns out to be a thread that I was on. Your whole position is filled with horse manure. You can sculpt it to look like a snowman , paint it white and put a carrot in for a nose, but it’s still horse manure.

[DiogenesLamp]

it will therefore be unnecessary to investigate any other. Mr. Smith founds his claim upon his birthright; his ancestors were among the first settlers of that colony. James Madison, House of Representatives 22 May 1789Papers 12:179--82

These things are easy enough to find before you go insulting other FReepers.

Again, he was not arguing for "natural born citizen." In 1789 there were no "natural born citizens" old enough to be in Congress. Likewise, if his argument is birth right by soil, then why is his next sentence an invocation of right by blood?

How many times must we continuously shoot down a fallacy before insults become appropriate?

[Kevmo]

You can SCAN an 1850 copy of the declaration of independence and if you claim it was from 1776, it is not what it claims.

That’s basically what Danae did, with a CoLB. When you say that nothing else is even relevant, you’re just plain wrong. All your gyrations add nothing to the discussion.

I was there, on that thread and Polarik’s thread when he opused out, when it happened. Were you?

Anyways, I’ll let you have the last word. I see that Certifigate threads have gotten no better in the last few months.

[MestaMachine]

Head, meet brick wall. Let me ask you this. Do you still believe Polarik now that he has a THIRD set of *absolute” facts?

[MestaMachine]

Polarik’s *opus*

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2312169/posts

Polarik is leaving FR
The Greater Evil ^ | 08/09/2009 | Polarik

Posted on Sunday, August 09, 2009 7:45:11 PM by Polarik

AFTER Polarik’s *opus*

http://209.157.64.201/focus/backroom/2562565/posts?page=1

OBAMA’S BORDER TROUBLES (The “Death Blow” to Obama’s COLB fraud)
TheDrRJP Channel ^ | 07/31/2010 | Dr. Ron Polland

Posted on Sunday, August 01, 2010 12:37:35 AM by Polarik
*****************************************

He didn’t keep his word, did he?
But during the time he was gone, he completely changed everything he ever stated as sworn, absolute FACT previously, and had a whole NEW set of facts that were now the absolute facts. And in the meantime, he pointed every daft lefist butthead to his *office* here at Free Republic.

[little jeremiah]

Anyone who reads FR and not just the American Idol/etc threads knows that 0bomba supporting trolls are here.

It’s self evident. Many know this to be true, it’s totally obvious. Bovrila got banned yesterday, he was a painfully obvious one. Too obvious for anyone to place on hold.

[ml/nj]

How many times must we continuously shoot down a fallacy before insults become appropriate?

Listen Peabrain!

The post I was reacting to suggested that the Madison quote was invented. It wasn't. People who would suggest otherwise are DANGEROUS to this website and the Republic.

You really have little clue about what the Framers meant by natural-born if you think this is cut and dried. I say this as one who started from the position that it referred to who ones parents were.

ML/NJ