http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pantoc24.jpg
Posted on 10/05/2009 6:17:42 PM PDT by JoeProBono
Scientists have reproduced the Shroud of Turin — revered as the cloth that covered Jesus in the tomb — and say the experiment proves the relic was man-made, a group of Italian debunkers claimed Monday
The shroud bears the figure of a crucified man, complete with blood seeping out of nailed hands and feet, and believers say Christ's image was recorded on the linen fibers at the time of his resurrection.
Scientists have reproduced the shroud using materials and methods that were available in the 14th century, the Italian Committee for Checking Claims on the Paranormal said.
The group said in a statement this is further evidence the shroud is a medieval forgery. In 1988, scientists used radiocarbon dating to determine it was made in the 13th or 14th century......
(Excerpt) Read more at sfgate.com ...
Maybe Peter saw a print, but it’s also true he had heard from the women who had encountered the risen Jesus, and knew of the Pharisees’ diligence to keep the body from being filched. (The Sadducees wouldn’t have cared since their world view didn’t include things like resurrections.) “What had happened” surely included the entire circumstances.
The argument that this item was produced in the 13th century necessitates belief in technological prowess not otherwise demonstrated in any other artifact handed down from that time.
It is conceivable that the Romans had the talent and science to produce the Shroud of Turin in the 1st century, but again, they knew nothing of reverse positives, etc.
Atheists and Agnostics who simply don't cotton to supernatural origins are forced to admit that the Shroud came from The Great Mothership!/s
The Shroud of Turin has never been dated. Some cotton cloth was dated. However that was a useless endeavor.
COLUMBUS, Ohio, August 15, 2008 — "In his presentation today at The Ohio State University’s Blackwell Center, Los Alamos National Laboratory (LANL) chemist, Robert Villarreal, disclosed startling new findings proving that the sample of material used in 1988 to Carbon-14 (C-14) date the Shroud of Turin, which categorized the cloth as a medieval fake, could not have been from the original linen cloth because it was cotton. According to Villarreal, who lead the LANL team working on the project, thread samples they examined from directly adjacent to the C-14 sampling area were “definitely not linen” and, instead, matched cotton. Villarreal pointed out that “the [1988] age-dating process failed to recognize one of the first rules of analytical chemistry that any sample taken for characterization of an area or population must necessarily be representative of the whole. The part must be representative of the whole. Our analyses of the three thread samples taken from the Raes and C-14 sampling corner showed that this was not the case.” Villarreal also revealed that, during testing, one of the threads came apart in the middle forming two separate pieces. A surface resin, that may have been holding the two pieces together, fell off and was analyzed. Surprisingly, the two ends of the thread had different chemical compositions, lending credence to the theory that the threads were spliced together during a repair.""LANL’s work confirms the research published in Thermochimica Acta (Jan. 2005) by the late Raymond Rogers, a chemist who had studied actual C-14 samples and concluded the sample was not part of the original cloth possibly due to the area having been repaired. This hypothesis was presented by M. Sue Benford and Joseph G. Marino in Orvieto, Italy in 2000. Benford and Marino proposed that a 16th Century patch of cotton/linen material was skillfully spliced into the 1st Century original Shroud cloth in the region ultimately used for dating. The intermixed threads combined to give the dates found by the labs ranging between 1260 and 1390 AD. Benford and Marino contend that this expert repair was necessary to disguise an unauthorized relic taken from the corner of the cloth. A paper presented today at the conference by Benford and Marino, and to be published in the July/August issue of the international journal Chemistry Today, provided additional corroborating evidence for the repair theory."
One question might be whether this relic were the result of a later miracle rather than actually being the original shroud. With all the chaos that the early church underwent, it would have been easy for the original shroud to have been destroyed. It doesn’t take much exposure to the elements to destroy linen.
Yes, they can debunk all they like. Do they think it’s going to change anyone’s faith? If it does, they had none to begin with.
Did you not notice my /s?
The Atheists want to argue that this could be readily done in the 13th century ~ even though we have ONLY ONE ITEM like it from that time (when it really did exist ~ right? This thing was around in the 1200s, 1300s, 1400s, and even the 1900s). Medieval people were not familiar with photographic techniques or photos.
A similar argument has been made for the Koran ~ that it was written in Classical Arabic. Not only that, it was the first book done in that tongue. The problem is with the second book ~ that didn't happen for another 125 years.
Nope, it's improbable that the Koran was written in Arabic ~ that written language didn't exist for another century or so.
Here it's highly improbable for the Shroud of Turin to have been created in the Middle Ages, and even if the Atheists could come up with a perfect duplication using common household ingredients of the time, WHERE IS THE SECOND ONE!
The moment the first photographer created the first photograph he immediately set about creating the SECOND PHOTOGRAPH!
He didn't wait another 700 years to create the second picture!
He lacked the foresight of a collector?
Just joshing. I know the arguments. The latest "scientist" to debunk the Shroud didn't even know the C14 dating had already been debunked. Numerous times.
Dunno.....still looks like Frank Zappa to me.
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Thanks JoeProBono. Just adding to the catalog, not sending a general distribution. |
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Look, some things are so obvious. The first guy to create a photograph (the modern way) undoubtedly thought of “baseball cards”
Yup, Yankee baseball cards to be exact.
These people are so pathetic - by now, there's not many that don't know that the carbon dating was off because they took it from samples of the patches applied after the fire in about 1200.
One can only wonder if they didn't deliberately take the samples from there, knowing what it would show.
Now that has been thoroughly debunked and the new scrutiny enforces the 2000 year old date even stronger.
The photo of this newest feeble attempt is so pitiful -
http://www.ikonart.gr/en/monadiko.htm
http://www.shroudofturin4journalists.com/pantoc24.jpg
Don’t forget they were in a rush to inter Christ because of the Sabbath. The women went back later with more herbs and things to do the job right.
I believe I once read that the Jews from Christ’s locale were fairer than usual. He was probably thin; maybe that makes Him look tall? How tall is the body from the Shroud?
you mean other than the swollen cheek bone, the broken nose (forensic findings), the back scourging, the nail wounds in the wrists - which is correct on two counts: at the time, the wrist was also considered part of the hand and so called - and the physical fact that if the nails has been in the palms, the weight of the body would have ripped through...
Then there's the long braid down the back, something I have never seen anyone yet address.
There is good evidence that Jesus belonged to the Nazorite Priesthood - This is not the same as Nazorean, native of Nazareth. Numbers 6:5 regarding the Nazorite vows - "there shall no razor come upon his head: until the days be fulfilled, in the which he separateth himself unto the LORD, he shall be holy, and shall let the locks of the hair of his head grow."
They wore their long hair in a braid down their back.
Wow - there is SO much reading you can do if you’re really curious -
maybe start with Barrie Schwortz’s site 0 he was one of the scientists in the 1978 team
Let me guess. You haven't done much study/research on the Shroud...
There is no evidence that First Century Jews were wrapped in mummy like wrappings. Actual evidence is that they were covered with a sheet like cloth, if the family could afford it, or just the face covered with a sweat cloth and the limbs bound with linen ties to keep them from flopping in death. The Jaw would also be bound closed with a cloth binding under the chin and over the head to keep the mouth closed. It may be this jaw binding that is the separate head cloth mentioned in the Bible.
After about a year or so, when the body had rotted away, the family would enter the tomb, collect the bones, and place them in a central bone repository called an ossuary where previous family dead had been placed, this was called being "gathered unto the ancestors." Wrappings as you describe would be counter productive to doing this.
This idea that Jews were buried ala the Egyptians in a mummy like wrapping is a late confabulation of the mis-translation of the Greek gospels that did not properly differentiate the Grave clothes (Sindon - sheet or shroud, Othonia - grave clothes/bindings, Sudarion - sweat cloth or face cloth) because English did not have so many words to describe the Greek terms, along with the popular knowledge of the well preserved Egyptian burial practices that were being discovered. People assumed that what was done in Egypt was also done in Israel and Judea.
They did indeed use large amounts of herbs and spices, if they could afford them, along with oils to cleanse and anoint the body. There was one exception to the cleansing... if the person died a violent death, every effort was made to keep the blood with the body. If the body was covered with blood, it was left in place.
Perhaps... but not with the wealth of information that is encoded in the Shroud. Too much is information that such a hoaxer could not have known.
But the image on the shroud is clearly a recognizable human. The prophecy’s in the Word of God say that he will be unrecognizable as a human.
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