Alternative Encryption Technologies of WWII

poster | 7-8-09 | poster

[Osnome]

So many technologies of Code Encrption were used and could have been used in WW2 by both sides. David Kahn in his book THE CODEBREAKERS stated why did not the Germans, some of whom relaized that their Enigma Code Machine was far from infallible, did not adopt new dissimilar machines. Well his(Kahn's) answer was:"they did they not have another machine"

That is far from true.

The above are alternatives to Enigma: The Hitler-Muhle(Mill). Mill is German slang for 'typewriter'.

[Rockingham]

The term ‘computer’ once applied to keen minded clerks who could do the tedious calculus required for creating artillery firing tables. With that as the start, the Colossus machines must have seemed almost magical in their capacity for outpacing human abilities. Were they digital computers? The point is debatable, but if Babbage’s machine would have been a computer, then Colossus was as well.

[Rockingham]

I believe that the other machines had or could have been developed to have the qualities of good code machines. I remain convinced though that in view of the sophistication and scale of the Allied code breaking effort, those machines would have been cracked as well.

[Osnome]

>>The term ‘computer’ once applied to keen minded clerks who could do the tedious calculus required for creating artillery firing tables. With that as the start, the Colossus machines must have seemed almost magical in their capacity for outpacing human abilities. Were they digital computers? The point is debatable, but if Babbage’s machine would have been a computer, then Colossus was as well.<<

False comparison!
The Babbage machine was the Analytical Engine. It could perform numerical extrapolations on data
Colossus did not analyze, it simply detected patterns in the Lorenz and only the Lorenz Cipher-Code stream.
It did this by XOR functions on the code stream.
It did not extrapolate!
That job as well as the actual deciphering were committed by human codebreaker. The British love to boast they were the first to this, the first to do that- - - this 'boastitis' of theirs is a result of their postwar post-empire sense of insecurity.

[Osnome]

>> I remain convinced though that in view of the sophistication and scale of the Allied code breaking effort, those machines would have been cracked as well.
<<
Probably so, but it would have been much more difficult and time consuming. Also would they have been deciphered in real time, i.e. hours instead of days or even weeks—?

[Rebelbase]

Trivia: Read here on FR once that the secrecy of the Enigma being cracked wasn’t revealed until decades after the war. Part of the reason for this was that third world countries were buying and using the machines for government use and Britain read their mail for years.

[Osnome]

>>Trivia: Read here on FR once that the secrecy of the Enigma being cracked wasn’t revealed until decades after the war. Part of the reason for this was that third world countries were buying and using the machines for government use and Britain read their mail for years.<<

I already knew that.

[Professional Engineer]

ping

[bert]

Then there is good ol bureaucratic inertia.

Once Enigma is in place, those who fought off the other contenders will continue and even prevail in spite of problems, real or suspected. It is the bureaucratic way

[Rockingham]

I am willing to Brit bash, but not on this. Colossus was a considerable accomplishment and proved to be fruitful of later postwar development in the field.

Although not Turing complete or able to carry out algorithms, Colossus is generally seen as an early if not the first program controlled computer. Konrad Zuse's Z3 in Nazi Germany is usually credited as the first program controlled and Turing complete computer. Fortunately, its potential was not developed for the German war effort and it is mostly a footnote.

[Rockingham]

A good point. And to what degree would Allied code breaking of a better system than Enigma have benefited from mistakes and sabotage by anti-Nazi German officers?

[sionnsar]

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[LurkedLongEnough]

According to my Webster dictionary (1902) the definition of computer is: 1. “one who computes”. LOL

Guess word meanings change over time.

[Osnome]

Good point, and I believe that it was a factor raised in David Kahn’s book.

[Osnome]

>>I am willing to Brit bash, but not on this. Colossus was a considerable accomplishment and proved to be fruitful of later postwar development in the field.

Although not Turing complete or able to carry out algorithms, Colossus is generally seen as an early if not the first program controlled computer. Konrad Zuse’s Z3 in Nazi Germany is usually credited as the first program controlled and Turing complete computer. Fortunately, its potential was not developed for the German war effort and it is mostly a footnote.
<<
It is not an issue of bashing them boastful Brits.
Colossus had features of a computer, but was not involved in computational work at all. Just a Lorenz code pattern detection. Heavy propaganda on the part of the Brits and Europeans seems to be the ‘agreement’- - but that does not make it true. Saying that Colossus was the first computer is a message that is shoved down our throats by these conceited insecure Brits and Europeans.

It is or it was generally agreed that the first modern stored-programable computer is/was the Manchester Mark 1 aka ‘Baby’.

“Inventions have many Fathers” - J. F. Kennedy
The conceited insecure Brits/Europeans are trying to monopolize here.

The Colossus machines were kept top secret then destroyed, including their schematics- - the last of which were dismanmlted in 1960 without anybody knowing of it.
Therefore they could make no contribution to the computing revolution.

[Osnome]

>>A good point. And to what degree would Allied code breaking of a better system than Enigma have benefited from mistakes and sabotage by anti-Nazi German officers? <<

That is a debate for future historians to workout as new facts are discovered or uncovered.

[Osnome]

Yes they certianly do!

At one time the slide-rule was considered a ‘pocket-calculator’

The first digital hand held calculator(The Cal-Tech) was refered to as the ‘Slide Rule Computer’

[Osnome]

>>As with weapons development and much else, the Third Reich’s record on communications security showed both brilliance and incompetence. Enigma was good enough at the start of the war, but it should have been replaced by a more secure system by the middle of the war. We must be grateful that was not the case.
<<

Finally we agree on something!

[Rockingham]

The basis for Colossus being called a computer is that it was digital and program controlled. And, even though highly secret and all the machines were destroyed for that reason, Colossus nevertheless helped spur the development of more advanced computers by those with knowledge of it.

Max Newman, Alan Turing, and I. J. Good all worked on the Manchester Mark 1, but before that, they worked on or with Colossus machines at Bletchley Park. Of course, with scientific and technological leadership decisively passing to the United States after WW II, the British contribution to further development of computers was limited.

[Osnome]

>>The basis for Colossus being called a computer is that it was digital and program controlled. And, even though highly secret and all the machines were destroyed for that reason, Colossus nevertheless helped spur the development of more advanced computers by those with knowledge of it.

Max Newman, Alan Turing, and I. J. Good all worked on the Manchester Mark 1, but before that, they worked on or with Colossus machines at Bletchley Park.
<<
Once again, if the criteria is merely digital and programmable, then Colossus was not the first.
Not by a long shot.
If you include ‘Electronic’ as part of the criteria, then Colossus is still NOT THE FIRST!
The Atanasov-Berry-Computer was the first all electronic programmable digital computer- operational(but with a small defect) in the Spring of 1942.
And of course those British snobs dismiss the machines importance.
They will say that the machine was special purpose computer. and not general— Colossus was a single function machine.
And, Colossus did not have a memory, just couple registers!
the ABC computer had a memory that was also regenerated electronically— the first Dyna-Ram.
The arrogant Brits/Europeans love to boast of their accomplishments.

The Brits and Euros are liars.
Tony Sale at the Bletchly Park Trust was honest about one thing: Alan Turing had NOTHING to do with the designing and building of Enigma- - NADA!

[Rockingham]

The Atanasov-Berry Computer was brilliant, and a major innovation, but it was not programmable and was not Turing complete. In the end, we get back to ENIAC as the first general purpose, programmable computer.