New ideas emerge about old empires [ Jared Diamond wrong, sez Norman Yoffee ]

The Rebel Yell (UNLV) ^ | Thursday, January 29, 2009 | Pashtana Usufzy

[SunkenCiv]

"Collapse is not just a defeat but the failure of a belief system," anthropologist Norman Yoffee said Tuesday during his lecture on ancient civilizations. Yoffee, a professor at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, spoke at UNLV on the meaning of "collapse" and what he believes to be the false notion that early societies destroyed themselves by obliterating their surroundings... The lecture evaluated the correlation between the past and present and challenged what Yoffee views as inaccuracies in the 2005 book "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" by world-renowned geographer Jared Diamond. "The victims of cultural and physical extermination have been charged as perpetrators of their own demise [by Diamond]," Yoffee said. An audience of nearly 150 students, professors and community members listened as Yoffee debated the idea of self-inflicted 'ecocide,' or environmental destruction, as in the case of the Mayan civilization... The professor questioned Diamond's position that ecocide and technological deficiencies lead to the devastation of many ancient civilizations. "He's wrong in much of what he says about the various areas of the world he covers," Yoffee said.

[SunkenCiv]

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Questioning Collapse: Human Resilience, Ecological Vulnerability, and the Aftermath of Empire ed by Patricia A. McAnany and Norman Yoffee

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[SunkenCiv]

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[SunkenCiv]

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[Intolerant in NJ]

Yoffee said he hoped to make clear was the vast expansion of human power over the environment which he believes has led to the extremity of climate change. He explained that modern humans have the capability to radically transform the planet’s environment in ways unheard of in the ancient world.“They didn’t have the power, we [do],” he said...the world can be a big, lonely, scary place for some people - it makes them feel better to believe that man has the power to exert control over that world, even if it's a destructive sontrol......

[SunkenCiv]

I think you’re onto something there... it’s probably even more likely that advocates of such views (that humans have control over climate etc) don’t believe them, but use them in order to force others into servitude.

[Radix]

I still wonder years after reading that book just what the lumberjack on Easter Island was thinking as he cut down that last giant palm.

[Max in Utah]

... it’s probably even more likely that advocates of such views (that humans have control over climate etc) don’t believe them, but use them in order to force others into servitude.

Exactly. Belief or non-belief has little to do with the matter; opportunity to gain power is the focus. "How can I benefit from this situation?"

[TiberiusClaudius]

It would be nice if this article included some detailed points, arguments, examples, or any other content from his speech.

[SunkenCiv]

The article was a little light, yes. :’) The book is linked also.