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String Theory, at 20, Explains It All (or Not)
The New York Times ^ | December 7, 2004 | Dennis Overbye

Posted on 12/07/2004 10:01:55 AM PST by snarks_when_bored

The New York Times


December 7, 2004

String Theory, at 20, Explains It All (or Not)

By DENNIS OVERBYE

ASPEN, Colo. - They all laughed 20 years ago.

It was then that a physicist named John Schwarz jumped up on the stage during a cabaret at the physics center here and began babbling about having discovered a theory that could explain everything. By prearrangement men in white suits swooped in and carried away Dr. Schwarz, then a little-known researcher at the California Institute of Technology.

Only a few of the laughing audience members knew that Dr. Schwarz was not entirely joking. He and his collaborator, Dr. Michael Green, now at Cambridge University, had just finished a calculation that would change the way physics was done. They had shown that it was possible for the first time to write down a single equation that could explain all the laws of physics, all the forces of nature - the proverbial "theory of everything" that could be written on a T-shirt.

And so emerged into the limelight a strange new concept of nature, called string theory, so named because it depicts the basic constituents of the universe as tiny wriggling strings, not point particles.

"That was our first public announcement," Dr. Schwarz said recently.

By uniting all the forces, string theory had the potential of achieving the goal that Einstein sought without success for half his life and that has embodied the dreams of every physicist since then. If true, it could be used like a searchlight to illuminate some of the deepest mysteries physicists can imagine, like the origin of space and time in the Big Bang and the putative death of space and time at the infinitely dense centers of black holes.

In the last 20 years, string theory has become a major branch of physics. Physicists and mathematicians conversant in strings are courted and recruited like star quarterbacks by universities eager to establish their research credentials. String theory has been celebrated and explained in best-selling books like "The Elegant Universe," by Dr. Brian Greene, a physicist at Columbia University, and even on popular television shows.

Last summer in Aspen, Dr. Schwarz and Dr. Green (of Cambridge) cut a cake decorated with "20th Anniversary of the First Revolution Started in Aspen," as they and other theorists celebrated the anniversary of their big breakthrough. But even as they ate cake and drank wine, the string theorists admitted that after 20 years, they still did not know how to test string theory, or even what it meant.

As a result, the goal of explaining all the features of the modern world is as far away as ever, they say. And some physicists outside the string theory camp are growing restive. At another meeting, at the Aspen Institute for Humanities, only a few days before the string commemoration, Dr. Lawrence Krauss, a cosmologist at Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, called string theory "a colossal failure."

String theorists agree that it has been a long, strange trip, but they still have faith that they will complete the journey.

"Twenty years ago no one would have correctly predicted how string theory has since developed," said Dr. Andrew Strominger of Harvard. "There is disappointment that despite all our efforts, experimental verification or disproof still seems far away. On the other hand, the depth and beauty of the subject, and the way it has reached out, influenced and connected other areas of physics and mathematics, is beyond the wildest imaginations of 20 years ago."

In a way, the story of string theory and of the physicists who have followed its siren song for two decades is like a novel that begins with the classic "what if?"

What if the basic constituents of nature and matter were not little points, as had been presumed since the time of the Greeks? What if the seeds of reality were rather teeny tiny wiggly little bits of string? And what appear to be different particles like electrons and quarks merely correspond to different ways for the strings to vibrate, different notes on God's guitar?

It sounds simple, but that small change led physicists into a mathematical labyrinth, in which they describe themselves as wandering, "exploring almost like experimentalists," in the words of Dr. David Gross of the Kavli Institute for Theoretical Physics in Santa Barbara, Calif.

String theory, the Italian physicist Dr. Daniele Amati once said, was a piece of 21st-century physics that had fallen by accident into the 20th century.

And, so the joke went, would require 22nd-century mathematics to solve.

Dr. Edward Witten of the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, N.J., described it this way: "String theory is not like anything else ever discovered. It is an incredible panoply of ideas about math and physics, so vast, so rich you could say almost anything about it."

The string revolution had its roots in a quixotic effort in the 1970's to understand the so-called "strong" force that binds quarks into particles like protons and neutrons. Why were individual quarks never seen in nature? Perhaps because they were on the ends of strings, said physicists, following up on work by Dr. Gabriele Veneziano of CERN, the European research consortium.

That would explain why you cannot have a single quark - you cannot have a string with only one end. Strings seduced many physicists with their mathematical elegance, but they had some problems, like requiring 26 dimensions and a plethora of mysterious particles that did not seem to have anything to do with quarks or the strong force.

When accelerator experiments supported an alternative theory of quark behavior known as quantum chromodynamics, most physicists consigned strings to the dustbin of history.

But some theorists thought the mathematics of strings was too beautiful to die.

In 1974 Dr. Schwarz and Dr. Joel Scherk from the École Normale Supérieure in France noticed that one of the mysterious particles predicted by string theory had the properties predicted for the graviton, the particle that would be responsible for transmitting gravity in a quantum theory of gravity, if such a theory existed.

Without even trying, they realized, string theory had crossed the biggest gulf in physics. Physicists had been stuck for decades trying to reconcile the quirky rules known as quantum mechanics, which govern atomic behavior, with Einstein's general theory of relativity, which describes how gravity shapes the cosmos.

That meant that if string theory was right, it was not just a theory of the strong force; it was a theory of all forces.

"I was immediately convinced this was worth devoting my life to," Dr. Schwarz recalled "It's been my life work ever since."

It was another 10 years before Dr. Schwarz and Dr. Green (Dr. Scherk died in 1980) finally hit pay dirt. They showed that it was possible to write down a string theory of everything that was not only mathematically consistent but also free of certain absurdities, like the violation of cause and effect, that had plagued earlier quantum gravity calculations.

In the summer and fall of 1984, as word of the achievement spread, physicists around the world left what they were doing and stormed their blackboards, visions of the Einsteinian grail of a unified theory dancing in their heads.

"Although much work remains to be done there seem to be no insuperable obstacles to deriving all of known physics," one set of physicists, known as the Princeton string quartet, wrote about a particularly promising model known as heterotic strings. (The quartet consisted of Dr. Gross; Dr. Jeffrey Harvey and Dr. Emil Martinec, both at the University of Chicago; and Dr. Ryan M. Rohm, now at the University of North Carolina.)

The Music of Strings

String theory is certainly one of the most musical explanations ever offered for nature, but it is not for the untrained ear. For one thing, the modern version of the theory decreed that there are 10 dimensions of space and time.

To explain to ordinary mortals why the world appears to have only four dimensions - one of time and three of space -string theorists adopted a notion first bruited by the German mathematicians Theodor Kaluza and Oskar Klein in 1926. The extra six dimensions, they said, go around in sub-submicroscopic loops, so tiny that people cannot see them or store old National Geographics in them.

A simple example, the story goes, is a garden hose. Seen from afar, it is a simple line across the grass, but up close it has a circular cross section. An ant on the hose can go around it as well as travel along its length. To envision the world as seen by string theory, one only has to imagine a tiny, tiny six-dimensional ball at every point in space-time

But that was only the beginning. In 1995, Dr. Witten showed that what had been five different versions of string theory seemed to be related. He argued that they were all different manifestations of a shadowy, as-yet-undefined entity he called "M theory," with "M" standing for mother, matrix, magic, mystery, membrane or even murky.

In M-theory, the universe has 11 dimensions - 10 of space and one of time, and it consists not just of strings but also of more extended membranes of various dimension, known generically as "branes."

This new theory has liberated the imaginations of cosmologists. Our own universe, some theorists suggest, may be a four-dimensional brane floating in some higher-dimensional space, like a bubble in a fish tank, perhaps with other branes - parallel universes - nearby. Collisions or other interactions between the branes might have touched off the Big Bang that started our own cosmic clock ticking or could produce the dark energy that now seems to be accelerating the expansion of the universe, they say.

Toting Up the Scorecard

One of string theory's biggest triumphs has come in the study of black holes. In Einstein's general relativity, these objects are bottomless pits in space-time, voraciously swallowing everything, even light, that gets too close, but in string theory they are a dense tangle of strings and membranes.

In a prodigious calculation in 1995, Dr. Strominger and Dr. Cumrun Vafa, both of Harvard, were able to calculate the information content of a black hole, matching a famous result obtained by Dr. Stephen Hawking of Cambridge University using more indirect means in 1973. Their calculation is viewed by many people as the most important result yet in string theory, Dr. Greene said.

Another success, Dr. Greene and others said, was the discovery that the shape, or topology, of space, is not fixed but can change, according to string theory. Space can even rip and tear.

But the scorecard is mixed when it comes to other areas of physics. So far, for example, string theory has had little to say about what might have happened at the instant of the Big Bang..

Moreover, the theory seems to have too many solutions. One of the biggest dreams that physicists had for the so-called theory of everything was that it would specify a unique prescription of nature, one in which God had no choice, as Einstein once put it, about details like the number of dimensions or the relative masses of elementary particles.

But recently theorists have estimated that there could be at least 10100 different solutions to the string equations, corresponding to different ways of folding up the extra dimensions and filling them with fields - gazillions of different possible universes.

Some theorists, including Dr. Witten, hold fast to the Einsteinian dream, hoping that a unique answer to the string equations will emerge when they finally figure out what all this 21st-century physics is trying to tell them about the world.

But that day is still far away.

"We don't know what the deep principle in string theory is," Dr. Witten said.

For most of the 20th century, progress in particle physics was driven by the search for symmetries - patterns or relationships that remain the same when we swap left for right, travel across the galaxy or imagine running time in reverse.

For years physicists have looked for the origins of string theory in some sort of deep and esoteric symmetry, but string theory has turned out to be weirder than that.

Recently it has painted a picture of nature as a kind of hologram. In the holographic images often seen on bank cards, the illusion of three dimensions is created on a two-dimensional surface. Likewise string theory suggests that in nature all the information about what is happening inside some volume of space is somehow encoded on its outer boundary, according to work by several theorists, including Dr. Juan Maldacena of the Institute for Advanced Study and Dr. Raphael Bousso of the University of California, Berkeley.

Just how and why a three-dimensional reality can spring from just two dimensions, or four dimensions can unfold from three, is as baffling to people like Dr. Witten as it probably is to someone reading about it in a newspaper.

In effect, as Dr. Witten put it, an extra dimension of space can mysteriously appear out of "nothing."

The lesson, he said, may be that time and space are only illusions or approximations, emerging somehow from something more primitive and fundamental about nature, the way protons and neutrons are built of quarks.

The real secret of string theory, he said, will probably not be new symmetries, but rather a novel prescription for constructing space-time.

"It's a new aspect of the theory," Dr. Witten said. "Whether we are getting closer to the deep principle, I don't know."

As he put it in a talk in October, "It's plausible that we will someday understand string theory."

Tangled in Strings

Critics of string theory, meanwhile, have been keeping their own scorecard. The most glaring omission is the lack of any experimental evidence for strings or even a single experimental prediction that could prove string theory wrong - the acid test of the scientific process.

Strings are generally presumed to be so small that "stringy" effects should show up only when particles are smashed together at prohibitive energies, roughly 1019 billion electron volts. That is orders of magnitude beyond the capability of any particle accelerator that will ever be built on earth. Dr. Harvey of Chicago said he sometimes woke up thinking, What am I doing spending my whole career on something that can't be tested experimentally?

This disparity between theoretical speculation and testable reality has led some critics to suggest that string theory is as much philosophy as science, and that it has diverted the attention and energy of a generation of physicists from other perhaps more worthy pursuits. Others say the theory itself is still too vague and that some promising ideas have not been proved rigorously enough yet.

Dr. Krauss said, "We bemoan the fact that Einstein spent the last 30 years of his life on a fruitless quest, but we think it's fine if a thousand theorists spend 30 years of their prime on the same quest."

The Other Quantum Gravity

String theory's biggest triumph is still its first one, unifying Einstein's lordly gravity that curves the cosmos and the quantum pinball game of chance that lives inside it.

"Whatever else it is or is not," Dr. Harvey said in Aspen, "string theory is a theory of quantum gravity that gives sensible answers."

That is no small success, but it may not be unique.

String theory has a host of lesser known rivals for the mantle of quantum gravity, in particular a concept called, loop quantum gravity, which arose from work by Dr. Abhay Ashtekar of Penn State and has been carried forward by Dr. Carlo Rovelli of the University of Marseille and Dr. Lee Smolin of the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Ontario, among others.

Unlike string theory, loop gravity makes no pretensions toward being a theory of everything. It is only a theory of gravity, space and time, arising from the applications of quantum principles to the equations of Einstein's general relativity. The adherents of string theory and of loop gravity have a kind of Microsoft-Apple kind of rivalry, with the former garnering a vast majority of university jobs and publicity.

Dr. Witten said that string theory had a tendency to absorb the ideas of its critics and rivals. This could happen with loop gravity. Dr. Vafa; his Harvard colleagues, Dr. Sergei Gukov and Dr. Andrew Neitzke; and Dr. Robbert Dijkgraaf of the University of Amsterdam report in a recent paper that they have found a connection between simplified versions of string and loop gravity.

"If it exists," Dr. Vafa said of loop gravity, "it should be part of string theory."

Looking for a Cosmic Connection

Some theorists have bent their energies recently toward investigating models in which strings could make an observable mark on the sky or in experiments in particle accelerators.

"They all require us to be lucky," said Dr. Joe Polchinski of the Kavli Institute.

For example the thrashing about of strings in the early moments of time could leave fine lumps in a haze of radio waves filling the sky and thought to be the remains of the Big Bang. These might be detectable by the Planck satellite being built by the European Space Agency for a 2007 launching date, said Dr. Greene.

According to some models, Dr. Polchinski has suggested, some strings could be stretched from their normal submicroscopic lengths to become as big as galaxies or more during a brief cosmic spurt known as inflation, thought to have happened a fraction of a second after the universe was born.

If everything works out, he said, there will be loops of string in the sky as big as galaxies. Other strings could stretch all the way across the observable universe. The strings, under enormous tension and moving near the speed of light, would wiggle and snap, rippling space-time like a tablecloth with gravitational waves.

"It would be like a whip hundreds of light-years long," Dr. Polchinski said.

The signal from these snapping strings, if they exist, should be detectable by the Laser Interferometer Gravitational Wave Observatory, which began science observations two years ago, operated by a multinational collaboration led by Caltech and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

Another chance for a clue will come in 2007 when the Large Hadron Collider is turned on at CERN in Geneva and starts colliding protons with seven trillion volts of energy apiece. In one version of the theory - admittedly a long shot - such collisions could create black holes or particles disappearing into the hidden dimensions.

Everybody's favorite candidate for what the collider will find is a phenomenon called supersymmetry, which is crucial to string theory. It posits the existence of a whole set of ghostlike elementary particles yet to be discovered. Theorists say they have reason to believe that the lightest of these particles, which have fanciful names like photinos, squarks and selectrons, should have a mass-energy within the range of the collider.

String theory naturally incorporates supersymmetry, but so do many other theories. Its discovery would not clinch the case for strings, but even Dr. Krauss of Case Western admits that the existence of supersymmetry would be a boon for string theory.

And what if supersymmetric particles are not discovered at the new collider? Their absence would strain the faith, a bit, but few theorists say they would give up.

"It would certainly be a big blow to our chances of understanding string theory in the near future," Dr. Witten said.

Beginnings and Endings

At the end of the Aspen celebration talk turned to the prospect of verification of string theory. Summing up the long march toward acceptance of the theory, Dr. Stephen Shenker, a pioneer string theorist at Stanford, quoted Winston Churchill:

"This is not the end, not even the beginning of the end, but perhaps it is the end of the beginning."

Dr. Shenker said it would be great to find out that string theory was right.

From the audience Dr. Greene piped up, "Wouldn't it be great either way?"

"Are you kidding me, Brian?" Dr. Shenker responded. "How many years have you sweated on this?"

But if string theory is wrong, Dr. Greene argued, wouldn't it be good to know so physics could move on? "Don't you want to know?" he asked.

Dr. Shenker amended his remarks. "It would be great to have an answer," he said, adding, "It would be even better if it's the right one."


Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home |

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TOPICS: Science
KEYWORDS: oopsnotyet; physics; quantumgravity; science; stringtheory; superstringtheory; theoryofeverything; workinprogress
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To: RightWingAtheist

OK, then you may read her book "Warped Passages : Unraveling the Mysteries of the Universe's Hidden Dimensions" due in a couple of months http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/9812560831


101 posted on 12/08/2004 9:31:42 AM PST by AdmSmith
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To: Alamo-Girl

I hadn't seen that CERN article. Thanks for linking to it.


102 posted on 12/08/2004 9:56:12 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored
I'm so glad you found it interesting!
103 posted on 12/08/2004 10:28:41 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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To: snarks_when_bored

YEC - INTREP


104 posted on 12/08/2004 10:10:29 PM PST by LiteKeeper (Secularization of America is happening)
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To: snarks_when_bored
I don't know what you mean by "relative human consciousness", and so I don't know what 'non-relative (absolute?) consciousness' might mean, either. I don't know what you mean by "absolute reality of the spiritual".

Human consciousness is characterized by incomplete knowledge; it forms conclusions which are "relative" to what is perceived. The earth appeared to be flat to a limited consciousness (relative) but the true form of the earth was discovered to be spherical as more information was obtained (absolute).

A building is conceived, designed and then constructed. It's absolute nature is in the original plan. If that building becomes damaged or destroyed (relative state) that does not change the absolute, original nature of that building. If for whatever reason that building is perceived incorrectly, that does not change the true nature of that building (the incorrect perception does create a false, relative reality for someone). The physical (relative) manifestation of the building is ultimately not as substantial as the original (absolute) idea or concept. The idea or concept (spiritual realm) has no limit of time, space or material.

String theory, etc. attempts to describe a relative manifestation of the absolute creative Principal. That absolute creative Principal is Spiritual. There lies the rub: it is difficult, if not impossible, to describe the absolute in relative terms. It is like the "deadly embrace" of computer programming - it creates an infinite circle, a lock-up, escape from which requires external input. I contend that is where human consciousness is now, locked up in a mortal, material illusion. And, the way out is knowledge - spiritual knowledge which may come from science, religion, both or from somewhere yet unknown.

To live in the spiritual is to live in the unlimited realm of perfection with infinite possibilities of expression. That concept is almost incomprehensible to human thought but we are slowly getting closer to the truth.

105 posted on 12/09/2004 10:20:13 AM PST by Semper
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To: Semper
You wrote:

Human consciousness is characterized by incomplete knowledge; it forms conclusions which are "relative" to what is perceived. The earth appeared to be flat to a limited consciousness (relative) but the true form of the earth was discovered to be spherical as more information was obtained (absolute).

I would agree that our knowledge is limited, and that our consciousness has a 'vectorial' or 'directional' aspect ('intentionality'). But your flat Earth vs. spherical Earth example doesn't work. Understanding that the Earth isn't flat doesn't require us to transition from 'relative' consciousness to 'absolute' consciousness; it just requires us to recognize a mistake and correct it (same consciousness before and after, but before it had got things wrong and afterwards it got them right).

You wrote:

A building is conceived, designed and then constructed. It's absolute nature is in the original plan. If that building becomes damaged or destroyed (relative state) that does not change the absolute, original nature of that building. If for whatever reason that building is perceived incorrectly, that does not change the true nature of that building (the incorrect perception does create a false, relative reality for someone). The physical (relative) manifestation of the building is ultimately not as substantial as the original (absolute) idea or concept. The idea or concept (spiritual realm) has no limit of time, space or material.

You seem to be a practicing Platonist—whether consciously or not, I'm not sure. Plato's ways of speaking are enshrined in our language, particularly in the distinction you're employing between 'relative' (physical) and 'absolute' (ideational). However, he distinguished between 'ideational' and 'spiritual'; he thought 'ideas' were independent of 'mind' (human or divine).

You wrote:

String theory, etc. attempts to describe a relative manifestation of the absolute creative Principal. That absolute creative Principal is Spiritual. There lies the rub: it is difficult, if not impossible, to describe the absolute in relative terms. It is like the "deadly embrace" of computer programming - it creates an infinite circle, a lock-up, escape from which requires external input. I contend that is where human consciousness is now, locked up in a mortal, material illusion. And, the way out is knowledge - spiritual knowledge which may come from science, religion, both or from somewhere yet unknown.

A few comments:

You wrote:

To live in the spiritual is to live in the unlimited realm of perfection with infinite possibilities of expression. That concept is almost incomprehensible to human thought but we are slowly getting closer to the truth.

I don't doubt your sincerity. But too often terms like 'unlimited' and 'perfection' and 'infinite possibilities' are used panegyrically rather than meaningfully, as a way of exalting a condition or state rather than describing it. There's no evidence that such a state as you describe has ever existed or could exist. Again (you know what I'm going to say next), in the absence of evidence, I prefer not to speculate.

As the justly famous singer/philosopher, Stevie Wonder, put it:

When you believe in things you don't understand,
Then you suffer,
Superstition ain't the way, no, no, no

106 posted on 12/09/2004 11:17:47 AM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored
Most excellent response, thank you.

I agree that the "flat earth" example is quite limited but when human consciousness progressed from that appearance based conclusion to a more valid realization, it made an evolutionary step in the process of progress. It takes many such steps to reach what could be called an enlightened state of consciousness. Even in today's world it is possible to see the great difference between those living in amazing ignorance and those who are constantly striving for knowledge and are thereby raising their state of consciousness.

However, he (Plato) distinguished between 'ideational' and 'spiritual'; he thought 'ideas' were independent of 'mind' (human or divine).

That does not make sense to me. Mind is the source of ideas. The human mind and its ideas manifest as material experience (illusion) and Divine Mind and Its ideas define ultimate reality (Spiritual).

there's zero evidence that consciousness exists, or has ever existed, apart from this mortal, material illusion. In the absence of evidence, I prefer not to speculate.

There IS evidence of a Spiritual power beyond the mortal, material illusion. There are books filled with accounts of Spiritual healings which defy material explanation. Just enter Spiritual healing into a search engine. Just one example is the work of the "sleeping prophet" Edgar Cayce. Also, virtually every religion has verified examples of spiritual healings. Because you are unaware of something or unwilling to believe it does not constitute an absence of evidence.

There's no evidence that such a state as you describe has ever existed or could exist.

As I explained above, there have been occurrences throughout human history which could not be explained in mortal/material terms; from this evidence it is reasonable to conclude that there is a realm beyond that which we are now perceiving. As I also explained above, there are things which exist first as an idea which may (or may not) be manifested in various ways (the building example). Do you believe that a building could exist without first being conceived in the mind of an architect or builder? That state where conception takes place is clearly different than the material state where the building is constructed. That is also evidence that there are realms other than the material.

As the justly famous singer/philosopher, Stevie Wonder, put it: When you believe in things you don't understand, Then you suffer, Superstition ain't the way, no, no, no

A very disappointing source for philosophical profundity. I have believed my whole life in a Spiritual Power which I do not completely understand and that faith has always provided helpful, sound, protective and empowering results - including experiences in extremely difficult human circumstances such as war, disease, severe injury, personal loss, etc. There was occasional suffering involved but it was only brought about by the human conditions not the faith in a power above those conditions. I doubt seriously that this unquestionable and reliable force for good in my life was the result of superstition.

107 posted on 12/10/2004 5:18:52 PM PST by Semper
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To: Semper
You wrote:
I agree that the "flat earth" example is quite limited but when human consciousness progressed from that appearance based conclusion to a more valid realization, it made an evolutionary step in the process of progress. It takes many such steps to reach what could be called an enlightened state of consciousness. Even in today's world it is possible to see the great difference between those living in amazing ignorance and those who are constantly striving for knowledge and are thereby raising their state of consciousness.

I have difficulty distingushing between those who are living in an enlightened state of consciousness and those who think they are living in an enlightened state of consciousness. But that's probably due to my own benighted condition.

You wrote:

However, he (Plato) distinguished between 'ideational' and 'spiritual'; he thought 'ideas' were independent of 'mind' (human or divine).

That does not make sense to me. Mind is the source of ideas. The human mind and its ideas manifest as material experience (illusion) and Divine Mind and Its ideas define ultimate reality (Spiritual).

The Neoplatonist whispers to himself, "They bought it!"

You wrote:

there's zero evidence that consciousness exists, or has ever existed, apart from this mortal, material illusion. In the absence of evidence, I prefer not to speculate.

There IS evidence of a Spiritual power beyond the mortal, material illusion. There are books filled with accounts of Spiritual healings which defy material explanation. Just enter Spiritual healing into a search engine. Just one example is the work of the "sleeping prophet" Edgar Cayce. Also, virtually every religion has verified examples of spiritual healings. Because you are unaware of something or unwilling to believe it does not constitute an absence of evidence.

People write books for many reasons, some of which include the desire to make money and/or the desire to become famous. In the late 1800's, séances were all the rage. As it turns out, they were sophisticated con jobs. Perhaps Edgar Cayce was in fact able to enter some sort of trance state (an altered state of consciousness), perhaps not. But it doesn't follow that he was therefore in touch with some sort of non-physical realm of spirits. Schizophrenics also hear voices, but we understand now that the voices they hear are brain-generated phantoms.

Semper, each neuron in our brain makes something on the order of 1000 synaptic connections with other neurons, which implies that our entire brain contains at least 100 trillion, and perhaps as many as 1 quadrillion, synaptic connections (link). That level of complexity is capable of producing a bewildering variety of experiences and behaviors, not excluding, I would argue, the sorts of experiences and behaviors that you're claiming lack natural explanations. We've only just begun to explore how our brain works. Premature conclusions about what the brain is capable of and what it isn't capable of are just that—premature.

You wrote:

...there have been occurrences throughout human history which could not be explained in mortal/material terms; from this evidence it is reasonable to conclude that there is a realm beyond that which we are now perceiving. As I also explained above, there are things which exist first as an idea which may (or may not) be manifested in various ways (the building example). Do you believe that a building could exist without first being conceived in the mind of an architect or builder? That state where conception takes place is clearly different than the material state where the building is constructed. That is also evidence that there are realms other than the material.

It's exceedingly likely that there are many realms beyond the one we're now perceiving (for example, the interiors of black holes). But those realms, if they exist, are physical realms, not non-physical ones. Current speculations in cosmology suggest that our observable universe is just the tiniest bit of a vastly larger 'bubble' universe, and that this larger 'bubble' universe is likely one among a myriad (perhaps even infinitely many) other 'bubble' universes. Hence there are likely to be physical realms (perhaps even with different physical laws and of different spatial dimensionalities) which are forever beyond our observational reach. But all of these realms, as I've said, would be physical, not non-physical. Indeed, it's just not at all clear whether the term 'non-physical realm' has any operational meaning at all.

As for the question whether the builder of a structure must have an idea (indeed, an archetypal idea in the Platonic sense) of the structure before building it, I call your attention to ant colonies, wasp nests, bird nests, beaver dams, etc., etc., etc. Would you argue that the construction of such structures by our fellow Earthlings implies the existence of a spiritual realm?

You wrote:

As the justly famous singer/philosopher, Stevie Wonder, put it: When you believe in things you don't understand, Then you suffer, Superstition ain't the way, no, no, no

A very disappointing source for philosophical profundity. I have believed my whole life in a Spiritual Power which I do not completely understand and that faith has always provided helpful, sound, protective and empowering results - including experiences in extremely difficult human circumstances such as war, disease, severe injury, personal loss, etc. There was occasional suffering involved but it was only brought about by the human conditions not the faith in a power above those conditions. I doubt seriously that this unquestionable and reliable force for good in my life was the result of superstition.

I'm very sorry that you don't share my high regard for Stevie Wonder. Philosophical profundity is where one finds it, it seems to me. But, be that as it may, I have no wish to in any way demean or denigrate the life experiences that you report. The only point I would make with respect to what you've said about them is this:  what one experiences is one thing, the correct explanation of what one experiences quite another. Recall the example of the schizophrenic, who is quite sure that the voices he hears are real. We're fairly sure that he really hears the voices (PET scans show that the relevant auditory brain circuits are active), but we know for a fact that the voices he hears aren't really there (in the sense of originating from outside his body).

Best regards to you...

108 posted on 12/10/2004 9:34:06 PM PST by snarks_when_bored
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To: snarks_when_bored
I have difficulty distingushing between those who are living in an enlightened state of consciousness and those who think they are living in an enlightened state of consciousness. But that's probably due to my own benighted condition.

I distingush the consciousness of people by the results in their lives. Those who live a worthy life characterized by productivity, intelligence, health, compassion, integrity, leadership, love, responsibility, security, etc. are those with an enlightened state of consciousness.

our entire brain contains at least 100 trillion, and perhaps as many as 1 quadrillion, synaptic connections (link). That level of complexity is capable of producing a bewildering variety of experiences and behaviors, not excluding, I would argue, the sorts of experiences and behaviors that you're claiming lack natural explanations. We've only just begun to explore how our brain works. Premature conclusions about what the brain is capable of and what it isn't capable of are just that—premature.

Yes, human consciousness is characterized by premature conclusions. Here also is a basic difference in our views of human consciousness: you seem to believe that thought is created by the physical human brain and I believe that the human brain (and its activity) is the result of thought. Evolving human/physical experience is the result of evolving thought/consciousness. From the limited human perspective, there is evidence for both beliefs. The more enlightened (from accumulated knowledge) that human consciousness becomes, the more one or the other perspective will be accepted. To me it is just logical that there is first a Principle and then a manifestation of that Principle. Maybe intelligence derives from non-intelligent matter, maybe "nothing" can create "something", maybe there is no actual Source to life, but none of those things make sense.

I call your attention to ant colonies, wasp nests, bird nests, beaver dams, etc., etc., etc. Would you argue that the construction of such structures by our fellow Earthlings implies the existence of a spiritual realm?

Sure, why not? These actions display intelligence (a spiritual element) on a level somewhat less developed than human but still part of the same overall life principle. It is not "by accident" that structures conform to certain principles to be sound. Those principles are not physical nor are they limited by place or time (although they can be manifested that way in particular cases). Why would not the "structures" of life be the same?

It is possible to learn about the principles of architecture by studying a structure and it is therefore possible to learn about the principle of Life by studying this particular physical manifestation (what humans now perceive). But, I contend that it may not be good to mistake any particular structure/manifestation for the substance of its principle.

Recall the example of the schizophrenic...

A questionable example. It is an illness, an anomaly which does not illustrate how the human intellect is designed to work.

Perhaps Edgar Cayce was in fact able to enter some sort of trance state (an altered state of consciousness), perhaps not. But it doesn't follow that he was therefore in touch with some sort of nonphysical realm

The reason people wrote books about Cayce and believed the claim that his nonphysical "readings" had validity was because a great many people were healed of all manner of illnesses by his efforts.

As I pointed out before, there are a serious number of accounts of spiritual healings from almost all religions. At some point, if prayer did not have tangible positive results, people would lose faith in that practice. There is somewhat of a "catch 22" element here: in order to experience spiritual healing, you have to have faith in that process. Most people will not have faith in something which they don't understand or don't need. It often takes a major traumatic situation with no hope of a traditional solution to cause people to turn to a "higher source" for help. That situation is much more rare today than in the past. I, however, have had no shortage of those extreme experiences. My faith is based upon this personal experience and logic. My logic will not make sense to you if you can't accept the premises. Maybe with more experience....

109 posted on 12/15/2004 11:26:43 AM PST by Semper
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Is String Theory Even Wrong?
by Peter Woit
American Scientist
March-April 2002
It is best described by Wolfgang Pauli's famous phrase, "It's not even wrong." String theory not only makes no predictions about physical phenomena at experimentally accessible energies, it makes no precise predictions whatsoever. Even if someone were to figure out tomorrow how to build an accelerator capable of reaching the astronomically high energies at which particles are no longer supposed to appear as points, string theorists would be able to do no better than give qualitative guesses about what such a machine might show. At the moment string theory cannot be falsified by any conceivable experimental result... With such a dramatic lack of experimental support, string theorists often attempt to make an aesthetic argument, professing that the theory is strikingly "elegant" or "beautiful."


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110 posted on 04/30/2005 6:32:08 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (FR profiled updated Monday, April 11, 2005. Fewer graphics, faster loading.)
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111 posted on 08/17/2008 1:32:26 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/_______Profile hasn't been updated since Friday, May 30, 2008)
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